What If the False Teacher Sounds Like a Man of God?
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quietthinker
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Davy
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Apparently you cannot 'see' it, with how Lord Jesus used the 'new wine' and old bottles metaphors. It has to do with those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear, meaning spiritual eyes to see, and spiritual ears to hear. Jesus covered this point in Matthew 13 when His disciples asked Him why He spoke to the multitudes in parable...
Matt 13:10-16
10 And the disciples came, and said unto Him, "Why speakest Thou unto them in parables?"
11 He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, 'By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
KJV
Therefore, I was... staying within the Biblical perspective of Jesus using the 'new wine' as a metaphor for having spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear. If you don't understand this, then you've missed Lord Jesus' Message there about not putting the 'new wine' into 'old bottles'.
If you are born again and Spirit filled then anything that is false or fake will sound warning bells. There are scriptures that talk of discernment:
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
Philippians 1:9-10
And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,
And the way a bank teller learns to tell the difference between genuine and fake bank notes is by handling the genuine ones and getting to know the fell of them so they can then spot fakes.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
Philippians 1:9-10
And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,
And the way a bank teller learns to tell the difference between genuine and fake bank notes is by handling the genuine ones and getting to know the fell of them so they can then spot fakes.
I have talked with a few people on forums who believed Paul to be a false apostle. Imagine that.
Luther was instrumental in bringing the great delusion that God promised to those who eagerly believe the lie. Protestantism helps a few and deceives the majority. The only way out is the fear of the Lord and humility.
The Protestant agenda allows for freedom of interpretation.....which most will go astray in their understanding, preferring self-serving eisegesis to any notion of the truth. That very same freedom, however, will allow the tiny remnant to not be brought under the control of mass institutionalism...and allow them to seek and find the Lord.
It should be noted that the anabaptists who met in homes came under extreme persecution by Luther who wished to maintain the control that institutionalism had over the beliefs of the people.
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amigo de christo
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
once again epi brings a t ruth , but has no idea ITS HE who fears not GOD nor is humble .
For any man who says , OH ITS OKAY to CALL GOD a liar , has not the fear of GOD in them .
Thus any man who goes around implying its okay if one does not believe on JESUS
and even more so constantly hammered on a few of us who did remind of the dire need to believe on JESUS .
And then it dont end there
HE then accuses a man who told an athiest of his dire need TO BELIEVE ON JESUS , as b eing a religious extremist .
Oh epi , you aint fooling me my friend .
But there is something i do need to let you and the others know .
Years ago i was in the library and met a man named Torro . HE was like you epi a top solider of inclusiivty .
And like you epi had bought the lie hook line and sinker .
Now as i was talking to this man , THREE TIMES
a still voice reminded me , WERE IT NOT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD , i would also have beleived this lie .
That this lie IS of the strong delusion .
You should have seen that man epi . Course he tried to PUFF ME UP appraoch by saying
HOW well i knew the bible and that he admitted he did not .
But then on he goes about this madness . And epi , you should have seen the way his eyes glazed over .
I TRULY have never seen anything like it . IT was as though he was truly under a spell .
The dudes faith in this lie was as s trong as my faith IN JESUS and the gospel .
Only sadly his faith was IN A LIE .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
luther sure did mess a few things up . And he was not alone . many did .
Yet , Man epi you omit the dire necessity to EVEN have to first beleive on JESUS .
Not even luther came close to that one . though i do not follow luther .
Nor a hyper grace . Because i see a jesus being preached by them that big time contradicts the JESUS in the scrips .
OH , but wait , SO DO YOU EPI . the only key d iffeernce between you
and the very hyper grace you preach against is ,
You preach a form of holiness and righteous , even using the words of JESUS
While they preach a serious lack of any kind of holiness and righteousness and they too will use a few of his words .
WANNA KNOW what you both have in common .
You b oth have your faith IN SOMEONE and SOMETHING ELSE .
SO hows about you pick up the LETS BELIEVE ON JESUS because without Him we can do nothing
AND THEN talk about livin g righteously and holy in CHRIST .
But not you epi . You have bodly refused to even lip THAT . and worse
not only will you not say it
BUT YOU even used JESUS OWN WORDS and yet LIED to an a theist .
By telling him , ALL he needs to do is give to a rigtheous man and he will recieve a righteous mans reward .
OH I KNOW JESUS said that . BUT JESUS warned YE HAD TO BELIEVE ON HIM .
You refused to preach the very TRUTH that athiest needed to hear . You preached a just do some good speech
and you will be all right speech .
NO FAITH at all epi . least not IN CHRIST , which does make it totally void .
Marvelloustime
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Marvelloustime
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Yes, Peter says some things Paul wrote are hard to understand. But read the whole verse, because Peter's point is not that Paul was confused, mistaken, or changing his theology.
Peter says that the “untaught and unstable” twist Paul's writings “as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:16).
That is a serious statement. Peter identifies the problem as people twisting Paul's teaching, not Paul teaching error. He had just said that Paul wrote “according to the wisdom given unto him” (2 Peter 3:15).
And notice Peter's words: they twist Paul's writings “as they do also the other scriptures.” Peter is placing Paul's writings alongside Scripture. He is not warning his readers that Paul sometimes got things wrong. He is warning them that people distort what Paul wrote just as they distort the rest of God's Word.
That fits what Paul himself said: “when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
The context makes your argument even harder to defend. Peter is discussing people questioning the promised return of Christ: “Where is the promise of his coming?” (2 Peter 3:4). Yet Peter never says Paul predicted Christ would return by a certain date and got it wrong. Instead, Peter says, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise” (2 Peter 3:9).
Yes, some of Paul's writings can be difficult and require careful study. But “hard to understand” does not mean “wrong,” and it certainly does not mean Paul made a failed prediction and later changed his theology.
Peter's warning is actually against doing exactly what should concern us here: taking Paul's writings and twisting them into something he did not teach.
So I will ask you again: where is the passage in which Paul gives a deadline for Christ's return that failed? Please show us the text.
Acts 9 clears up who was Paul and how the Lord chose him
His conversion was performed by Christ and miraculous; the apostles testify Paul was one of them, although they took some convincing!
classic.biblegateway.com
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 and asked of him letters to the synagogues at Damascus, that if he found any who were of this Way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly there shone round about him a light from heaven.
4 And he fell to the earth and heard a voice saying unto him, “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?”
5 And he said, “Who art Thou, Lord?” And the Lord said, “I am Jesus whom thou persecutest; it is hard for thee to kick against the goads.”
6 And he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?” And the Lord said unto him, “Arise and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.”
7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth, and when his eyes were opened, he could see no man; but they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did he eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Behold, I am here, Lord.”
11 And the Lord said unto him, “Arise and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for the one called Saul of Tarsus; for behold, he prayeth
12 and hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many of this man, and how much evil he hath done to Thy saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Thy name.”
15 But the Lord said unto him, “Go thy way, for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him what great things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered into the house, and putting his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus who appeared unto thee on the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost.”
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received sight forthwith, and arose and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples who were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed and said, “Is not this he that destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither with the intent that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?”
22 But Saul increased the more in strength and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that Jesus is the very Christ.
23 And after many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him.
24 But their lying in wait became known to Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down through the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join himself to the disciples, but they were all afraid of him and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord on the way and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them, coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Grecians, but they went about to slay him.
30 And when the brethren heard of this, they brought him down to Caesarea and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then the churches throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had rest and were edified, and, walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
32 And it came to pass, as Peter was passing throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints who dwelt at Lydda.
33 And there he found a certain man named Aeneas, who had kept to his bed for eight years and was sick with the palsy.
34 And Peter said unto him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed.” And he arose immediately.
35 And all who dwelt in Lydda and Sharon saw him, and turned to the Lord.
36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha (which interpreted is called Dorcas). This woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
37 And it came to pass in those days that she was sick and died; and when they had washed her, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And inasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he should not delay to come to them.
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. And when he had come, they brought him into the upper chamber; and all the widows stood by him weeping, and showing the coats and garments which Dorcas made while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all outside and kneeled down and prayed, and turning to the body, he said, “Tabitha, arise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up.
41 And he gave her his hand and lifted her up; and calling in the saints and widows, he presented her alive.
42 And it became known throughout all Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.
43 And it came to pass that he tarried many days in Joppa with one Simon, a tanner.
His conversion was performed by Christ and miraculous; the apostles testify Paul was one of them, although they took some convincing!
Bible Gateway passage: Acts 9 - 21st Century King James Version
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, and asked of him letters to the synagogues at Damascus, that if he found any who were of this Way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as...
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
2 and asked of him letters to the synagogues at Damascus, that if he found any who were of this Way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
3 And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly there shone round about him a light from heaven.
4 And he fell to the earth and heard a voice saying unto him, “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?”
5 And he said, “Who art Thou, Lord?” And the Lord said, “I am Jesus whom thou persecutest; it is hard for thee to kick against the goads.”
6 And he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?” And the Lord said unto him, “Arise and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.”
7 And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth, and when his eyes were opened, he could see no man; but they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did he eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Behold, I am here, Lord.”
11 And the Lord said unto him, “Arise and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for the one called Saul of Tarsus; for behold, he prayeth
12 and hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many of this man, and how much evil he hath done to Thy saints in Jerusalem.
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Thy name.”
15 But the Lord said unto him, “Go thy way, for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him what great things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
17 And Ananias went his way and entered into the house, and putting his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus who appeared unto thee on the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost.”
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received sight forthwith, and arose and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples who were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed and said, “Is not this he that destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither with the intent that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?”
22 But Saul increased the more in strength and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that Jesus is the very Christ.
23 And after many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him.
24 But their lying in wait became known to Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him.
25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down through the wall in a basket.
26 And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join himself to the disciples, but they were all afraid of him and believed not that he was a disciple.
27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord on the way and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
28 And he was with them, coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Grecians, but they went about to slay him.
30 And when the brethren heard of this, they brought him down to Caesarea and sent him forth to Tarsus.
31 Then the churches throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had rest and were edified, and, walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
32 And it came to pass, as Peter was passing throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints who dwelt at Lydda.
33 And there he found a certain man named Aeneas, who had kept to his bed for eight years and was sick with the palsy.
34 And Peter said unto him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed.” And he arose immediately.
35 And all who dwelt in Lydda and Sharon saw him, and turned to the Lord.
36 Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha (which interpreted is called Dorcas). This woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
37 And it came to pass in those days that she was sick and died; and when they had washed her, they laid her in an upper chamber.
38 And inasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he should not delay to come to them.
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. And when he had come, they brought him into the upper chamber; and all the widows stood by him weeping, and showing the coats and garments which Dorcas made while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all outside and kneeled down and prayed, and turning to the body, he said, “Tabitha, arise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up.
41 And he gave her his hand and lifted her up; and calling in the saints and widows, he presented her alive.
42 And it became known throughout all Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.
43 And it came to pass that he tarried many days in Joppa with one Simon, a tanner.
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I am hearing you just fine, Scott. I am rejecting what you are saying because it is false and contrary to Scripture.
You keep acting as though the problem is that I do not understand your explanation. No. I understand it. I reject it because your explanation replaces the biblical test with your own made-up standard.
You say God gives someone something to declare, and people simply receive it or reject it. Scripture says otherwise. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1). “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Bereans were called noble because they “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11).
That destroys your argument.
You do not get to claim “God gave this to me” and then accuse people of pride or blindness when they demand biblical proof. That is exactly backwards. The pride is in claiming divine authority for your own teaching while refusing to submit that teaching to the written Word of God.
Your words are not Scripture. Your book is not Scripture. Your private claims of revelation are not Scripture. And I will not treat them as though they carry God's authority simply because you say they do.
So stop pretending this is a failure to hear you. I hear you. What you are teaching is wrong, and I am rejecting it on biblical grounds.
If you want your teaching accepted, then prove it from Scripture in context. If you cannot do that, then you have no biblical basis for demanding that anyone receive it. So answer the following that I have been asking you:
Again: Are you willing to have your book examined against Scripture, claim by claim? I am willing to purchase a copy and review what you actually wrote, quoting you accurately and examining the biblical passages in context. Where your teaching agrees with Scripture, I will acknowledge it. Where it contradicts Scripture, I will identify the error plainly. Will you answer those objections from the biblical text?
Only Jesus can restore a blind man's eyes so he can see, demons do not do that, so Paul regained his sight because of God, Paul was not restored to sight by a demon to become a false apostle.
John 9's entire chapter is devoted to Christ healing a man who was blind
classic.biblegateway.com
24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”
25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”
26 Then they said to him again, “What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?”
27 He answered them, “I told you already, and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?”
28 Then they reviled him and said, “You are His disciple, but we are Moses’ disciples. 29 We know that God spoke to Moses; as for this fellow, we do not know where He is from.”
30 The man answered and said to them, “Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32 Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”
John 10
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is [c]mad. Why do you listen to Him?”
21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
John 9's entire chapter is devoted to Christ healing a man who was blind
Bible Gateway passage: John 9 - New King James Version
A Man Born Blind Receives Sight - Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should...
24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”
25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”
26 Then they said to him again, “What did He do to you? How did He open your eyes?”
27 He answered them, “I told you already, and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also want to become His disciples?”
28 Then they reviled him and said, “You are His disciple, but we are Moses’ disciples. 29 We know that God spoke to Moses; as for this fellow, we do not know where He is from.”
30 The man answered and said to them, “Why, this is a marvelous thing, that you do not know where He is from; yet He has opened my eyes! 31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. 32 Since the world began it has been unheard of that anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind. 33 If this Man were not from God, He could do nothing.”
John 10
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
19 Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. 20 And many of them said, “He has a demon and is [c]mad. Why do you listen to Him?”
21 Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
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What you are teaching here is not merely mistaken. It is a dangerous rejection of the biblical standard God has given for testing doctrine and those who claim to speak for Him.
You say, “I have no need to prove anything.” That is false. The moment you claim that God has given you something to declare, Scripture commands that claim to be tested. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1). “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). You do not get to stand above those commands because you believe God spoke to you.
Then you dismiss biblical examination as merely comparing “what you believe” with what I believe. That is another dodge. Scripture is not clay for every man to mold into his own truth. There is a right handling of the Word and a wrong one. Paul commanded Timothy to be “rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15), and Peter warned that unstable men “wrest” the Scriptures “unto their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:16). The existence of false interpretation does not erase the truth. It exposes the need to handle Scripture correctly.
Your claim that this is how God has always worked is also wrong. God never told His people to blindly receive anyone who claimed to have a word from Him. He gave tests. Deuteronomy 13 warns that even signs are not enough if a prophet speaks contrary to what God has already revealed. Deuteronomy 18 warns against those who presume to speak in God's name. Isaiah says plainly, “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).
So no, the biblical test is not, “God gives someone something, and you either receive it or reject it.” That is your test. God's test is whether the message agrees with His revealed Word.
Then you compare yourself with Christ, saying those who thought they knew Scripture crucified Him, and now implying that those who reject your teaching may be doing the same thing to you. That comparison is outrageous. You are not Christ. Your book is not Scripture. Your private interpretations are not the words of the Son of God. Jesus could say, “Search the scriptures... they are they which testify of me” (John 5:39), because the Scriptures actually testified of Him. You do not get to place yourself in that position and then warn people they may be opposing God by rejecting you.
Your statement about people needing to “get the latest from God” is another red flag. God has not told Christians to chase the latest private revelation from self-appointed teachers. Jude says we are to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). Paul says Scripture is sufficient to make the man of God “perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). If you claim to have some new divine message that Christians need beyond the written Word, then prove that claim from Scripture. You have not.
And your “wait and see if it fizzles out” test is not biblical either. False teaching does not become true because it survives, spreads, sells books, gains followers, or lasts for years. Jesus said, “many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many” (Matthew 24:11). Error can be popular. Error can be persistent. Error can deceive multitudes. Longevity proves nothing.
Then you warn that I have “much to lose” if I reject what you are saying. That is spiritual intimidation. You are trying to make rejection of your teaching sound like rejection of God. Scripture warns about the opposite danger: accepting another message without testing it. Paul warned about “another Jesus,” “another spirit,” and “another gospel” (2 Corinthians 11:4). That is why your claims must be tested, not feared.
You keep putting yourself in the center of the issue, as though everyone must decide whether to receive or reject what God supposedly gave you. No. The dividing line is not you. The dividing line is the truth of God's Word.
If your teaching is from God, then it will stand under Scripture. If it collapses when Scripture is opened in context, then stop blaming the people who reject it.
Your claim to speak for God does not give your words authority. Because you are speaking for you, not God.
God's Word has authority.
And that is exactly what your teaching is being judged by.
You are not the arbiter of God's words. You are an imposter who condemns others for what you are doing....judging from your own ignorance, hoping that someone can lead you out of your present darkness...because all you have are bible verses that leave you in darkness. You are a bible legalist that seeks to kill others by the letter of the word but it is the Spirit that gives life. You have no life in you...just bible theories and theologies that are devoid of light and truth.
You are a dark force here that speaks nothing but what you should be telling yourself. You provide no light or understanding...just criticisms based on your own assumed right to judge what the bible is saying. You are fully ignorant of what eternal life is...and you have no testimony beyond having experienced a superficial reading of the bible.
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No. This is not a matter of me being unable to “see” some hidden spiritual meaning. The issue is that you have not proven your interpretation from the text. Saying “you cannot see it” is not an argument. It is a way of dismissing anyone who asks you to show where Scripture actually says what you are claiming.
If “new wine” means spiritual eyes and ears, then show that from Mark 2. Do not just assert it and then blame the other person for lacking spiritual sight. Scripture is the standard, not your claim that someone else cannot “see” what you see.
Matthew 13 does teach that some hear and understand while others do not. I am not disputing that.
But you still have not shown that Jesus used “new wine” in Mark 2 as a metaphor for spiritual eyes, spiritual ears, or some deeper level of spiritual understanding.
You are taking a truth from Matthew 13 and inserting it into a different metaphor in Mark 2.
Look at the actual context. The question in Mark 2:18 is about fasting. Jesus answers by speaking of the bridegroom, then the new piece of cloth on an old garment, and then new wine in old bottles.
“And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles” (Mark 2:22).
Where does Jesus say there that the wine represents “spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear”? He does not.
Matthew 13 cannot simply be brought over and assigned as the meaning of the wine because both passages involve spiritual truth. That is not interpreting the metaphor from its context. That is giving the metaphor a meaning and then finding another passage that talks about spiritual understanding.
And telling me that I cannot “see” it does not establish your interpretation either. If that is what Jesus meant by the new wine, then demonstrate it from the text.
I agree completely that the Holy Spirit gives believers understanding of Scripture. But the Holy Spirit does not give us permission to assign meanings to Jesus' metaphors that Jesus and the context do not establish.
So the issue remains the same: show from Mark 2, or its parallel passages, where “new wine” means spiritual eyes, spiritual ears, or deeper spiritual understanding.
Matthew 13 teaches the necessity of spiritual understanding. It does not prove that this is what the new wine means in Mark 2.
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Correct, I am not the arbiter of God’s Word. God’s Word is. And God’s Word absolutely has authority over you, me, and every teacher who claims to speak for Him. So when Scripture shows that your teaching is wrong, that is not my authority judging you. That is God’s Word judging your teaching. When Scripture contradicts you, you are wrong.
You still have not answered the Scripture that was put in front of you. Instead, you abandoned the biblical argument and started attacking me personally. Calling me an “imposter,” a “dark force,” saying I have “no life” in me, and claiming I am ignorant of eternal life does not answer a single passage I gave you.
Your appeal to “the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life” is also being ripped out of context. In 2 Corinthians 3, Paul is contrasting the old covenant ministry of condemnation with the new covenant ministry of the Spirit. He is not teaching that careful reliance on Scripture is dead religion, and he certainly is not giving anyone permission to dismiss biblical correction by claiming superior spiritual insight.
You said all I have are “Bible verses that leave you in darkness.” That statement should concern anyone reading this. Jesus said, “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). Psalm 119:105 says, “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” Peter called the prophetic Word “a light that shineth in a dark place” (2 Peter 1:19). God’s Word does not leave people in darkness. It exposes darkness.
What you are doing is turning the biblical standard upside down. Instead of proving your teaching from Scripture, you treat Scripture as inadequate and elevate your claimed spiritual understanding above it. Then, when someone refuses to accept your claims, you pronounce judgment on that person’s spiritual condition. That is not discernment. That is arrogance.
Scripture says, “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ... He is proud, knowing nothing” (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Peter warns about men who are “presumptuous” and “selfwilled” and who speak “great swelling words of vanity” (2 Peter 2:10, 18). Jeremiah records God’s warning against those who claim divine authority for words He did not give them: “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied” (Jeremiah 23:21).
You can insult me all you want. It changes nothing. The issue is still the same. Can your teaching be demonstrated from Scripture in context?
So far, instead of doing that, you have attacked the person challenging you, appealed to superior spiritual experience, and treated reliance on Scripture as darkness. That does not defend your teaching. It is exactly why your teaching needs to be tested.
All theory and no substance. All cloud and no rain. All hat and no cattle. Your arrogance is of a particular kind...there is another here that considers himself a theologian who went to some bible school...and he claims that others are not even worthy to carry his lunch pail. Sounds like your own type of arrogance. But both you and he know nothing beyond what carnal eyes can perceive.
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