Warning New Bibles Coming Out

[David1701]

Well , we do know where Gen 3:15 is going but I believe the gospel was preached to Adam in Gen 2 , the gospel main message has not changed when you really think about it , Obey God and live . That would be the message to pass on .

Gen 2
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen. 2:16,17 is not gospel; it's law.

The gospel is the good news of Jesus' victory over sin, death and Satan, by his shed blood and substitutionary death on the cross, and his bodily resurrection. This good news was not declared (even in predictive prophecy, like Gen. 3:15) until the law had been broken.

 

[talons]

Gen. 2:16,17 is not gospel; it's law.

The gospel , gospel means good news . Obey God and Live , I still like the sound of that . Law you say .

The gospel is the good news of Jesus' victory over sin, death and Satan, by his shed blood and substitutionary death on the cross, and his bodily resurrection.

Surely what you say above but the gospel is a good news according to the time frame .
Jesus preached the gospel . Gospel can mean different things are preached at different times in the bible .

Jesus preached this gospel .

Mark 1:15 Context​

12And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. 13And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. 14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 16Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. 17And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. 18And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

New versions of the bible Coming?

Seems the enemy is "hard at work" with more Confusion, eh?

God Is So Good:

The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is "The Living Word Of God," And,
The Holy Scriptures Are "The Written Word Of God!"

And "The Twain Shall Never For Ever" be Divided!! Amen?

Where Is God's Word Today?

Special Handling Of The Word Of Life!

 

[David1701]

The gospel , gospel means good news . Obey God and Live , I still like the sound of that . Law you say .

Surely what you say above but the gospel is a good news according to the time frame .
Jesus preached the gospel . Gospel can mean different things are preached at different times in the bible .

Jesus preached this gospel .

Mark 1:15 Context​

12And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. 13And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him. 14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 16Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. 17And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. 18And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.

The word translated, in the N.T., as "gospel" or "good news" is a Greek word that means "good news of a great victory". It was used of, e.g., military victories by a general or Caesar. The focus was on the victor, not any advantage that might accrue to the populace.

Law is "Do this and be blessed; do that and be cursed."; it is very different from salvation by grace through faith in the Messiah to come (in the O.T.), or the Messiah who has come (in the N.T.). No-one has ever been saved by law-keeping.

 

[quietthinker]

What was passed down Adam's descendants was what God told Adam and Eve, in Gen. 3:15, as well as God covering them, with skins from the death and necessary shedding of blood of an animal (probably a lamb), following their breaking of His law not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Have you considered that the offering of Abel was not one of blood?
We don't have a record of God instructing A&E or Cain and Able in the killing of animals .....or sacrifice. In fact, what we have is Cain and Able bringing 'offerings' of their own volition.
If your children were to bring you an offering would you want a dead animal? I would guess that would be the last thing you'd want.
Without engaging eisegesis we also need to ask, why wasn't the Lord pleased with Cain's offering?

Regarding 'skins from death'. That is a very strange thing to attribute to God since Jesus told us that it was the 'thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy' (John 10:10)

I propose this, if God can make complete animals with word I'm sure he can make 'skins' as well, with a word. Besides, the word 'skins', could it be 'coverings?' It's a thought.
There is also, God's question to A&E, 'who told you that you were naked? (Genesis 3:11) Who do you think told them?

further...... What we (Christians) have done is extrapolate from eisegesis and conclude from faulty assumptions.

 

[David1701]

Have you considered that the offering of Abel was not one of blood?

Have you considered that Abel's offering was one of blood (although not only blood)?

Gen. 4:3,4 (KJV)
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Abel brought an animal and its fat (you get the fat by killing the animal, unless you think it was by torturing the animal while it was still alive - I hope not!).

We don't have a record of God instructing A&E or Cain and Able in the killing of animals .....or sacrifice. In fact, what we have is Cain and Able bringing 'offerings' of their own volition.

And why would Abel kill an animal to offer to God, unless his parents had told him that this was something acceptable to God, after they had sinned? Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.

If your children were to bring you an offering would you want a dead animal? I would guess that would be the last thing you'd want.

I am not the thrice holy God, against whom man had sinned, and the propitiation of whom required the shedding of blood.

Without engaging eisegesis we also need to ask, why wasn't the Lord pleased with Cain's offering?

Gen. 4:3-5 (KJV)
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

There are always two aspects to an offering to the LORD:

1) The nature of the offering itself
2) The heart of the offerer

Cain's offering did not involve a blood sacrifice, so it could not cover his sins; and, Cain's heart was not right with the LORD, which means that he did have sins that needed to be covered.

Gen. 4:6,7
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Regarding 'skins from death'. That is a very strange thing to attribute to God since Jesus told us that it was the 'thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy' (John 10:10)

There is nothing strange about it, since the later O.T. sacrificial system (instituted by God) required the death and shedding of the blood of numerous animals.

I propose this, if God can make complete animals with word I'm sure he can make 'skins' as well, with a word. Besides, the word 'skins', could it be 'coverings?' It's a thought.

I thought you didn't like eisegesis...

There is also, God's question to A&E, 'who told you that you were naked? (Genesis 3:11) Who do you think told them?

No-one told them that they were naked. They knew as soon as they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen. 3:6,7
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Incidentally, the word used for "naked", in Gen. 3:7, is not the same word used in Gen. 2:25. The Hebrew word used in Gen. 2:25 can mean "partially naked"; whereas, the word in Gen. 3:7 only means "naked"; so, it's likely, although it can't be proved, that Adam and Eve had some kind of spiritual covering (maybe like God's shekinah glory), until they sinned, when they became fully naked.

further...... What we (Christians) have done is extrapolate from eisegesis and conclude from faulty assumptions.

Speak for yourself...

 

[GodsGrace]

How would you interpret 'wiles'

I understand this to mean the tricks that satan plays with both believers and unbelievers.

From Gemini:

Wiles (used almost exclusively in the plural form) refers to clever, artful, or seductive tricks, stratagems, or manipulation used to persuade someone, deceive them, or get them to do what you want


I believe that is we are aware of the tricks satan plays,,,we can better use our armor against him.
Ephesians 6:10-11
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

 

[GodsGrace]

What was passed down Adam's descendants was what God told Adam and Eve, in Gen. 3:15, as well as God covering them, with skins from the death and necessary shedding of blood of an animal (probably a lamb), following their breaking of His law not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I believe we can look back now and extrapolate what God might have told AandE.
But I doubt God gave them the complete gospel message or it would have been passed down from one generation to the next...

Instead we see that the Jews did not recognize Jesus to be their Messiah.
I don't believe we can be certain about what God taught AandE except what is written.

 

[David1701]

I believe we can look back now and extrapolate what God might have told AandE.
But I doubt God gave them the complete gospel message or it would have been passed down from one generation to the next...

Agreed. Revelation was progressive, gradually increasing in detail and clarity, throughout the ages.

Instead we see that the Jews did not recognize Jesus to be their Messiah.
I don't believe we can be certain about what God taught AandE except what is written.

Some Jews recognised Jesus to be their Messiah (because God opened their hearts (c.f. Lydia)) and many did not, because of their natural hostility to God (Rom. 8:7,8) and hatred of the light (John 3:19,20) (of course, the same goes for Gentiles). This is why, in order to perceive and enter the Kingdom of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, we MUST be born again (John 3 - Nicodemus' conversation with Jesus).

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed. Revelation was progressive, gradually increasing in detail and clarity, throughout the ages.


Some Jews recognised Jesus to be their Messiah (because God opened their hearts (c.f. Lydia)) and many did not, because of their natural hostility to God (Rom. 8:7,8) and hatred of the light (John 3:19,20) (of course, the same goes for Gentiles). This is why, in order to perceive and enter the Kingdom of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, we MUST be born again (John 3 - Nicodemus' conversation with Jesus).

In perfect agreement.

 

[quietthinker]

Abel brought an animal and its fat (you get the fat by killing the animal, unless you think it was by torturing the animal while it was still alive - I hope not!).

'Fat' could be a synonym for the best of the flock. I am highly doubtful it means something dead. It could also mean milk products.

And why would Abel kill an animal to offer to God, unless his parents had told him that this was something acceptable to God, after they had sinned? Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.

Do you really think blood is the prerequisite for forgiveness? Think about it, do you require your children to offer you something dead or bleeding before you forgive them? Yes, I understand OT Israel's story including its various interpretations. I would say you have been swept up into a narrative that is irrational and plays directly into the pagan handbook.

Of course, if you are an honest thinker you will have lots of objections and lots of questions.....but if you are not, you will swallow the narrative because it's familiar and 'comfortable' and doesn't threaten certain assumptions.

It's 'assumptions' that are born from paradigms. The Jews had plenty of incorrect assumptions because their paradigm was faulty; a paradigm that Jesus drew their attention to.....and they didn't like it.....so what did they do? ....throw him under the bus!

It behooves us to not follow their example, to not construct and maintain a narrative at the cost of TRUTH....because its familiar and convenient.

 

[quietthinker]

I understand this to mean the tricks that satan plays with both believers and unbelievers.

From Gemini:

Wiles (used almost exclusively in the plural form) refers to clever, artful, or seductive tricks, stratagems, or manipulation used to persuade someone, deceive them, or get them to do what you want


I believe that is we are aware of the tricks satan plays,,,we can better use our armor against him.
Ephesians 6:10-11
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

Yes, that's what 'wiles' are ...and we are all subject to them. That's why being on our toes keeping the radar scanning is critical.

 

[Anchorite]

Rather, the problem is that folks don't read whatever bible they have and thus don't discern that the Bible itself defines its words. The "changed language" argument is a red herring.

Not a red herring at all.

Few people know what propitiation means.

Archaic words in KJV include: assay, husbandman, trow, stanched, wist, daysman, concision, holpen, raiment, anon, mote, ague, chambering, descry, astonied, discomfited, flagon, privily, haply, noisome, obeisance, stomacher, pate.

Understanding doesn't comes from men; it comes from the Holy Spirit whom we are told to approach with our questions.

You cannot be serious. You think the Holy Spirit is going to define the archaic words of the King James Version?

 

[Anchorite]

'Fat' could be a synonym for the best of the flock. I am highly doubtful it means something dead. It could also mean milk products.

Do you really think blood is the prerequisite for forgiveness? Think about it, do you require your children to offer you something dead or bleeding before you forgive them? Yes, I understand OT Israel's story including its various interpretations. I would say you have been swept up into a narrative that is irrational and plays directly into the pagan handbook.

Of course, if you are an honest thinker you will have lots of objections and lots of questions.....but if you are not, you will swallow the narrative because it's familiar and 'comfortable' and doesn't threaten certain assumptions.

It's 'assumptions' that are born from paradigms. The Jews had plenty of incorrect assumptions because their paradigm was faulty; a paradigm that Jesus drew their attention to.....and they didn't like it.....so what did they do? ....throw him under the bus!

It behooves us to not follow their example, to not construct and maintain a narrative at the cost of TRUTH....because its familiar and convenient.

You speak against the gospel of redemption.

1 Peter 1:18,19

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, / but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot.



Hebrews 9:12

He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.


Romans 5:9

Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!


Ephesians 1:7

in Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace,

 

[David1701]

'Fat' could be a synonym for the best of the flock. I am highly doubtful it means something dead. It could also mean milk products.

To understand the Bible, you cannot just make things up! Have you even bothered to check how fat was used in animal sacrifices? No, I didn't think so.

Do you really think blood is the prerequisite for forgiveness? Think about it, do you require your children to offer you something dead or bleeding before you forgive them? Yes, I understand OT Israel's story including its various interpretations. I would say you have been swept up into a narrative that is irrational and plays directly into the pagan handbook.

Why are you asking about opinions, when God's word tells us that there is no forgiveness without the shedding of blood?

Heb. 9:18-22 (KJV)
18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

If you think that God's word is "irrational", then you need to do some deep soul-searching, because there's something far, far wrong.

Of course, if you are an honest thinker you will have lots of objections and lots of questions.....but if you are not, you will swallow the narrative because it's familiar and 'comfortable' and doesn't threaten certain assumptions.

Christians believe what God's word says. That is not swallowing a narrative! It is trusting the God who inspired his word.

It's 'assumptions' that are born from paradigms. The Jews had plenty of incorrect assumptions because their paradigm was faulty; a paradigm that Jesus drew their attention to.....and they didn't like it.....so what did they do? ....throw him under the bus!

Just like you appear to want to throw God's word under the bus...

It behooves us to not follow their example, to not construct and maintain a narrative at the cost of TRUTH....because its familiar and convenient.

God's word is truth, whether it is familiar to you or not, and whether it is convenient for you or not.

 

[Dryhn]

Not a red herring at all.

Few people know what propitiation means.

Archaic words in KJV include: assay, husbandman, trow, stanched, wist, daysman, concision, holpen, raiment, anon, mote, ague, chambering, descry, astonied, discomfited, flagon, privily, haply, noisome, obeisance, stomacher, pate.




You cannot be serious. You think the Holy Spirit is going to define the archaic words of the King James Version?

What I find compelling regarding the KJV is the number 7 numerical pattern throughout it's entirety which to the same level is unseen in other versions

KJV Code

kjvcode.com

Here are 3 of many many many more

 

[quietthinker]

Christians believe what God's word says. That is not swallowing a narrative! It is trusting the God who inspired his word.

Jesus is God's WORD, in fact it's God's final word; the most explicit......why not hear him?
....or is the desire to use that of Prophets to interpret God's WORD in preference to hearing THE WORD himself.

Israel preferred their narrative; their paradigm instead of THE WORD
The Christian Church at large is in the same deceptive position. They have made the written text its own objective and sidestepped the very one it promised.....even while giving lip service to it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus is God's WORD, in fact it's God's final word; the most explicit......why not hear him?
....or is the desire to use that of Prophets to interpret God's WORD in preference to hearing THE WORD himself.

Israel preferred their narrative; their paradigm instead of THE WORD
The Christian Church at large is in the same deceptive position. They have made the written text its own objective and sidestepped the very one it promised.....even while giving lip service to it.

I don't know you well enough to be sure....
but I do believe I agree with you.

 

[David1701]

Jesus is God's WORD, in fact it's God's final word; the most explicit......why not hear him?
....or is the desire to use that of Prophets to interpret God's WORD in preference to hearing THE WORD himself.

Israel preferred their narrative; their paradigm instead of THE WORD
The Christian Church at large is in the same deceptive position. They have made the written text its own objective and sidestepped the very one it promised.....even while giving lip service to it.

What did Jesus do, when tempted by the devil?

Matt. 4:1-11 (KJV)
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

And the many other times that Jesus directed his hearers to the written word of God...

Matt. 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Matt. 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matt. 26:52-56
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I can not now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Luke 24:25-27
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:44-48
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

In trying to drive a wedge between the living Word (the Lord Jesus Christ) and the written Word (the Holy Bible), you are committing an act of the greatest folly and wickedness. I pray that the Lord would open your eyes, granting you repentance and forgiveness.

 

[David1701]

I don't know you well enough to be sure....
but I do believe I agree with you.

Please see my reply to that poster.

Warning New Bibles Coming Out

Well , we do know where Gen 3:15 is going but I believe the gospel was preached to Adam in Gen 2 , the gospel main message has not changed when you really think about it , Obey God and live . That would be the message to pass on . Gen 2 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every...

www.christianityboard.com