Mrk 16:17-18 applies today, really ? Let's see :)

[Dryhn]

Let me be very clear ... I cannot prove anything to you.

I will leave it up to you to google it for yourself ... there are plenty of testimonies online.
It is important to use spiritual discernment to distinguish the real from the fake.
Some people may be trying to bring glory to themselves ... others will be describing something they personally witnessed.
Whether you believe it or not is up to you.

I've done my best to share what I believe, and what I have experienced, so will end my participation in this thread here.
Thank you for a courteous debate.

Correct me if I'm wrong
Mk 16:17 these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

THEM you stated referred to a Church
Today you said "I do not know any church that speaks in tongues as in Acts 2:4-6 ""

Here's the problem :-

If Churches (THEM) today do not speak in new tongues eg Acts 2:-4-6 then Mk 16:17 does not apply to churches today

 

[David1701]

People make the Church
People drive out devils
People communicate in a language unknown to them
People handle a lethal viper
People drink a deadly thing
People lay their hands to heal the sick

When was the last time you did any of those ? :)

1 Cor. 12:1-11 (W.E.B.)
1 Now concerning spiritual things, brothers, I don’t want you to be ignorant.
2 You know that when you were heathen, you were led away to those mute idols, however you might be led.
3 Therefore I make known to you that no man speaking by God’s Spirit says, “Jesus is accursed.” No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” but by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are various kinds of service, and the same Lord.
6 There are various kinds of workings, but the same God, who works all things in all.
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the profit of all.
8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
9 to another faith, by the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, by the same Spirit;
10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.
11 But the one and the same Spirit works all of these, distributing to each one separately as he desires.

God distributes all of his gifts to the assembly as a whole, but not everyone has all the gifts, or even the same gifts.

I've read of missionaries who have been poisoned, and the natives were astonished when they survived.

Many people have been healed miraculously, through the laying on of hands. Many demons have been driven out of demonised people. Many Christians speak in unlearned languages (and they are sometimes interpreted (they always should be, in meetings)). Many prophecies are uttered (although, they need to be tested, since there are many false prophecies). There are many supernatural discernings of people and spirits, which were not known naturally, etc., etc..

For one example (from many) of continuing, Holy Spirit empowered evangelism, see the ministry of David Hathaway.

 

[Dryhn]

1 Cor. 12:1-11 (W.E.B.)
1 Now concerning spiritual things, brothers, I don’t want you to be ignorant.
2 You know that when you were heathen, you were led away to those mute idols, however you might be led.
3 Therefore I make known to you that no man speaking by God’s Spirit says, “Jesus is accursed.” No one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” but by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are various kinds of service, and the same Lord.
6 There are various kinds of workings, but the same God, who works all things in all.
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the profit of all.
8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
9 to another faith, by the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, by the same Spirit;
10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.
11 But the one and the same Spirit works all of these, distributing to each one separately as he desires.

God distributes all of his gifts to the assembly as a whole, but not everyone has all the gifts, or even the same gifts.

I've read of missionaries who have been poisoned, and the natives were astonished when they survived.

Many people have been healed miraculously, through the laying on of hands. Many demons have been driven out of demonised people. Many Christians speak in unlearned languages (and they are sometimes interpreted (they always should be, in meetings)). Many prophecies are uttered (although, they need to be tested, since there are many false prophecies). There are many supernatural discernings of people and spirits, which were not known naturally, etc., etc..

For one example (from many) of continuing, Holy Spirit empowered evangelism, see the ministry of David Hathaway.

Thx David, I'll keep it short to avoid confusion.
Acts 2:4-6 tongues - A talker speaks in a language unknown to him yet is clearly understood by others

If that happens regularly today then there will be video evidence of it.
Please list any such occurrence that you are aware of.
TIA

 

[David1701]

Thx David, I'll keep it short to avoid confusion.
Acts 2:4-6 tongues - A talker speaks in a language unknown to him yet is clearly understood by others

If that happens regularly today then there will be video evidence of it.
Please list any such occurrence that you are aware of.
TIA

That event has been characterised as a miracle of hearing. In any case, most instances of tongues speaking are not like that one.

 

[Dryhn]

That event has been characterised as a miracle of hearing. In any case, most instances of tongues speaking are not like that one.

Yes, the tongues today are believers talking in a 'dialect' that no-one inc the talker understands - I have no problem with that or them

Miracles of healing :-
Lay hands on a terminally ill baby & within minutes/hours said baby recovers - that will convince me that 'healing' happens today :)

 

[David1701]

Yes, the tongues today are believers talking in a 'dialect' that no-one inc the talker understands - I have no problem with that or them

That's often the case; although, I had a friend who was visiting a convention in Wales. He was something of a linguist and could speak German and French to a very high standard, as well as knowing Koine Greek, Latin and smatterings of other languages. He heard someone praising God, in refined German, so went to speak to him, in German, but the worshipper, who was Welsh, couldn't speak a word of German and didn't know that he'd been praising God in German.

There are many such accounts.

Miracles of healing :-

Lay hands on a terminally ill baby & within minutes/hours said baby recovers - that will convince me that 'healing' happens today :)

The laying on of hands (anointing with oil), for the healing of the ill, is even taught by some cessationists (and it's entirely biblical).

James 5:14,15 (W.E.B.)
14 Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord,
15 and the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

The relative lack of supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit, in many denominations, is primarily because of unbelief.

The devil is very pleased with both powerless unbelief and fanatical excesses. Both extremes should be avoided.

 

[Dryhn]

That's often the case; although, I had a friend who was visiting a convention in Wales. He was something of a linguist and could speak German and French to a very high standard, as well as knowing Koine Greek, Latin and smatterings of other languages. He heard someone praising God, in refined German, so went to speak to him, in German, but the worshipper, who was Welsh, couldn't speak a word of German and didn't know that he'd been praising God in German.

There are many such accounts.


The laying on of hands (anointing with oil), for the healing of the ill, is even taught by some cessationists (and it's entirely biblical).

James 5:14,15 (W.E.B.)
14 Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord,
15 and the prayer of faith will heal him who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

The relative lack of supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit, in many denominations, is primarily because of unbelief.

The devil is very pleased with both powerless unbelief and fanatical excesses. Both extremes should be avoided.

The laying on of hands (anointing with oil), for the healing of the ill
Fantastic :) Please list one confirmed documented case where a terminally ill baby was healed within a VERY short time frame

He heard someone praising God, in refined German, so went to speak to him, in German, but the worshipper, who was Welsh, couldn't speak a word of German
Proof & documentation please

There are many such accounts.
Great, yet where are the undisputable sworn testimonies &/or videos by them & the people closely known to these 'talkers' ?

 

[David1701]

The laying on of hands (anointing with oil), for the healing of the ill
Fantastic :) Please list one confirmed documented case where a terminally ill baby was healed within a VERY short time frame

It's always possible to make extreme demands for proof, when you don't want to believe something; but, we should believe what God's word says, with or without seeing proof.

Doubting Thomas made some strong demands for proof as well, and the Lord condescended to provide them, so he might give you the proof you want; but, blessed are those who simply believe what God's word says, even if they have not seen the proof (I have seen proof, in my own experience, but it's not documented, so you wouldn't accept it).

He heard someone praising God, in refined German, so went to speak to him, in German, but the worshipper, who was Welsh, couldn't speak a word of German
Proof & documentation please

It was an account told to me by my friend (who was not a liar). There was no documentation taken; and, how can anyone show you the proof of such an event?

There are many such accounts.
Great, yet where are the undisputable sworn testimonies &/or videos by them & the people closely known to these 'talkers' ?

"Sworn testimonies"? This is not a court of law; and, anyway, the Bible says not to swear at all, but to let our "Yes." be yes and our "No." be no, since anything beyond this comes from evil.

Here is all the proof you should need: 1 Cor. chapters 12-14; Mark 16:9-20; James 5:14,15; John 14:12; Rom. 12:4-8; Matt. 21:19-22; Gal. 3:5,6. Please look them up.

 

[soberxp]

They shall speak with new tongues;
Not new language,but speak English or any other with new tongues.

Tongues means kind voice,something like that.

 

[David1701]

They shall speak with new tongues;
Not new language,but speak English or any other with new tongues.

Tongues means kind voice,something like that.

"Tongues" means "languages", whether of men or angels.

 

[pwg_jonathan]

I agree that the signs are better read in light of the whole passage than as a personal pass or fail test. Mark closes the chapter with a helpful summary in Mark 16:20, "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following." The emphasis there is on the word going out and the Lord confirming it, rather than on believers proving themselves. That also fits what was said about Trophimus being left sick, since faith is never measured by a checklist. (removed).

 

[Dryhn]

It's always possible to make extreme demands for proof, when you don't want to believe something; but, we should believe what God's word says, with or without seeing proof.

Doubting Thomas made some strong demands for proof as well, and the Lord condescended to provide them, so he might give you the proof you want; but, blessed are those who simply believe what God's word says, even if they have not seen the proof (I have seen proof, in my own experience, but it's not documented, so you wouldn't accept it).


It was an account told to me by my friend (who was not a liar). There was no documentation taken; and, how can anyone show you the proof of such an event?


"Sworn testimonies"? This is not a court of law; and, anyway, the Bible says not to swear at all, but to let our "Yes." be yes and our "No." be no, since anything beyond this comes from evil.

Here is all the proof you should need: 1 Cor. chapters 12-14; Mark 16:9-20; James 5:14,15; John 14:12; Rom. 12:4-8; Matt. 21:19-22; Gal. 3:5,6. Please look them up.

Please list any confirmed occasion where a terminally ill baby in hospital fully recovered within hours of laying hands.

 

[David1701]

Please list any confirmed occasion where a terminally ill baby in hospital fully recovered within hours of laying hands.

Re. healing:

1) The age of the healed person is irrelevant.

2) The person does not have to be terminally ill.

3) The person does not have to be in hospital.

4) Full recovery does not have to be within hours.

Why are you making ludicrous demands?

Why are you only going to believe based on "confirmed" healings (and only of a very specific type), rather than on what the word of God states?

What is your motive in all this?

 

[Dryhn]

Re. healing:

1) The age of the healed person is irrelevant.

2) The person does not have to be terminally ill.

3) The person does not have to be in hospital.

4) Full recovery does not have to be within hours.

Why are you making ludicrous demands?

Why are you only going to believe based on "confirmed" healings (and only of a very specific type), rather than on what the word of God states?

What is your motive in all this?

Why are you making ludicrous demands?
Because people make ludicrous claims

Here is some good solid teaching on gifts, learn so you can be edified :)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/d1.graceambassadors.com/audio/1Cor35.mp3