Is Revelation 3:10 A Secret Rapture To Heaven?

[Truth7t7]

Is knowledge of history necessary to an understanding of Prophecy?

In regards to the study of prophecy, especially in regards to the Apocalypse, it is appropriate that something be said with regard to the two schools or methods of interpretation, which are radically in conflict with the true method. These two schools are the Preterist and the Futurist. The one we understand to be the true one is called the Historical.

Concerning the Preterist it seems sufficient to say that it is very generally discarded at the present time as unworthy of credence. Its teaching is that many of the prophecies of the Bible and all the visions of the Apocalypse were completely fulfilled in the early centuries of the Church's history. The Futurist interpretation is that all its visions are yet to have their fulfillment after the Church has finished its course and has entered into its reward.

It will be well to note in this connection, the words of the great Teacher Himself, "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that when it is come to pass (i.e. when you see it fulfilled) ye might believe," this statement suggests a principle of interpretation important to be observed in the study of prophecy. It is obvious, then, that it would be impossible for any one to decide whether the predictions of the Apocalypse or for that matter any prophecy have or have not met their fulfillment either wholly or partially, without observing this divinely given principle. In other words, certain knowledge of the events of history is essential in order to determine to what extent the visions have met fulfillment.

Strange as it may seem, there are some who claim that the apocalyptic visions cannot have had a fulfillment in history, because, as they say, we are told to search the Scriptures, and are nowhere told to search the historians. God, they say, is His own interpreter. Such reasoning we believe is unsound. How could we ever know that the prophecies of Daniel have met their fulfillment without acquainting ourselves with the records of history especially Jewish history? Knowledge of history is absolutely essential to the intelligent understanding of prophecy.

We are not to compare prophecy with uninspired or profane history, say our futurist friends. According to this theory, then, there could not have been any prophetic light thrown on the period of four hundred years prior to the First Advent. The same also would be true of the last two thousand years. Such reasoning would lead us to very unsound conclusions.

When the Apostle exhorted that we do well to take heed to the more sure word of prophecy, he evidently intended that we should look to the events and occurrences recorded in history to see the fulfillment of what had been predicted by the Prophets; else how could we be profited by giving heed to the more sure word of prophecy?

Let us consider for instance the prophecy of Daniel. In the vision of chapter 7 a tenfold division of the Roman Empire was predicted to take place before the establishment of the Kingdom of God on the earth. We know from Bible history that the Roman Empire was existing in its undivided form up to about 60 AD, but we are dependent upon profane history for the knowledge that it was still existing as a universal empire when the apostle John was divinely used to close the canon of Scripture by having imparted to him the visions of the Apocalyptic prophecy, which repeats this very same prediction of Daniel. How do we know that this prediction of Daniel has or has not met its fulfillment, unless from profane history?

Profane history records the fact that just such a division of the Roman Empire occurred nearly eighteen hundred years ago. It is then an indisputable fact that our knowledge of the fulfillment of prophecy is dependent upon the faithful records of uninspired historians. The Savior's words, "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe" (John 14:29), are sufficient to substantiate this line of reasoning.

Another unreasonable, indeed rash statement made by some Futurist interpreters is that the events connected with the history of the Church of this Gospel Age are not subjects of prophecy. Those who make such a statement seem not to see that knowledge of history is needful even to warrant such an assertion! How, we ask, without knowledge of the history of the Gospel Age, can it be known that the visions of John in the Apocalypse do not present a connected outline of the leading and important events of Church history?

The assertion is an entirely proper one that knowledge of what has actually taken place is as needful to justify a denial, as an assertion of the fact. We must know a person as well before we can pronounce that a certain portrait does not resemble him, as in order to assert that it does.

"Trustworthy historians record events which they neither invented nor caused, but what occurred under God's providential government; it was He who caused, or permitted these events; they are in one sense as Divine as prophecy; that is, both proceed from Him. Prophecy is God telling us beforehand what shall happen; authentic history is men telling us what has, in the providence of God, taken place. "We dare not for these reasons exclude the light afforded by history, in the endeavor to answer the questions:

Is the prophecy of the Apocalypse fulfilled or partly so, or is it still unfulfilled?

Unfulfilled

 

[ScottA]

The hour of the earth's temptation is in the final hours of the future tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ.

As Isaiah 26:20-21below instructs the believer's to enter their dwellings and close the door, while the hour of indigination, temptation passes.

"Just Like The Passover In Egypt"

Revelation 3:10 is not a secret rapture to heaven, as is falsely taught in dispensationalism.

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Revelation 3:8-13KJV
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

I don't really get the idea of a "secret rapture."

People go to the Father daily, not in secret - and still most do not see or acknowledge it, but look in unbelief to the future for what they cannot see before them.

It's no secret: "But each one in his own order."

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't really get the idea of a "secret rapture."

People go to the Father daily, not in secret - and still most do not see or acknowledge it, but look in unbelief to the future for what they cannot see before them.

It's no secret: "But each one in his own order."

Dispensationalism in the majority teaches Revelation 3:10 represents a secret pre-tribulation rapture of the Church to heaven.

They contend this is how the Church will be kept from the hour of temptation, rapture out before the tribulation.

Revelation 3:10KJV
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Isaiah 26:20-21 below is how the Church will be kept from the hour of Earth's temptation, as the Church will enter their dwellings and shut their doors, just like the "Passover In Egypt"!

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[ScottA]

It will be well to note in this connection, the words of the great Teacher Himself, "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that when it is come to pass (i.e. when you see it fulfilled) ye might believe," this statement suggests a principle of interpretation important to be observed in the study of prophecy. It is obvious, then, that it would be impossible for any one to decide whether the predictions of the Apocalypse or for that matter any prophecy have or have not met their fulfillment either wholly or partially, without observing this divinely given principle. In other words, certain knowledge of the events of history is essential in order to determine to what extent the visions have met fulfillment.

No. The end is the end.

If you were dead...all these things would have come to pass, and you would believe, just as Jesus said.

In other words, men missed the first coming of Christ - His own people, for God's sake. Thus, historic events do not tell anything to those who do not see. But death does. Therefore, Christ told us that "the kingdom of heaven does not come with observation", and Paul told us rather that instead of the obvious historic events that people look for, these things do not come as such, "but each one in his own order."

 

[ScottA]

Dispensationalism in the majority teaches Revelation 3:10 represents a secret pre-tribulation rapture of the Church to heaven.

They contend this is how the Church will be kept from the hour of temptation, rapture out before the tribulation.

Revelation 3:10KJV
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Isaiah 26:20-21 below is how the Church will be kept from the hour of Earth's temptation, as the Church will enter their dwellings and shut their doors, just like the "Passover In Egypt"!

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

They are wrong.

 

[Truth7t7]

No. The end is the end.

If you were dead...all these things would have come to pass, and you would believe, just as Jesus said.

In other words, men missed the first coming of Christ - His own people, for God's sake. Thus, historic events do not tell anything to those who do not see. But death does. Therefore, Christ told us that "the kingdom of heaven does not come with observation", and Paul told us rather that instead of the obvious historic events that people look for, these things do not come as such, "but each one in his own order."

I agree in the order of the resurrection, and I believe it all ends at the second coming.

 

[ScottA]

I agree in the order of the resurrection, and I believe it all ends at the second coming.

So, then...you have not heard Christ knocking at the door and heard His voice and opened the door, and He has not come into you?

 

[Truth7t7]

So, then...you have not heard Christ knocking at the door and heard His voice and opened the door, and He has not come into you?

Scott I believe in a literal future Antichrist/Beast a human man of Jewish decent, a Literal 3.5 year tribulation, Literal Prophets returned, Literal Plagues upon a Literal world a remake of Egypt, A Literal World Gathered to Armageddon, and a Literal Second Coming of Jesus Christ In Fire And judgment.
A Literal Lake Of Fire, A Literal New Heaven, Earth, And Jerusalem For Eternity.

 

[ScottA]

Scott I believe in a literal future Antichrist/Beast a human man of Jewish decent, a Literal 3.5 year tribulation, Literal Prophets returned, Literal Plagues upon a Literal world a remake of Egypt, A Literal World Gathered to Armageddon, and a Literal Second Coming of Jesus Christ In Fire And judgment.
A Literal Lake Of Fire, A Literal New Heaven, Earth, And Jerusalem For Eternity.

Then you literally have things upside down and backwards. Because it is God that is literal...and this is all just "created."

But my earlier question was whether you were counting Christ coming in the flesh as a man as His first coming, and in the power and glory of God (whom is spirit) as His second coming...or whether you weren't counting one of those, or didn't believe the first coming, or have not experienced the second.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then you literally have things upside down and backwards. Because it is God that is literal...and this is all just "created."

But my earlier question was whether you were counting Christ coming in the flesh as a man as His first coming, and in the power and glory of God (whom is spirit) as His second coming...or whether you weren't counting one of those, or didn't believe the first coming, or had not experienced the second.

I believe Jesus Christ died, shed his blood for the world' sin's as the Lamb of God, was buried, resurrected to a glorified eternal body of flesh and bone that is a "Spiritual Body" that he presently maintains eternally, and Jesus Will Return as the spiritual world consumes the physical world we live in presently.

 

[ScottA]

I believe Jesus Christ died, shed his blood for the world' sin's as the Lamb of God, was buried, resurrected to a glorified eternal body of flesh and bone that is a "Spiritual Body" that he presently maintains eternally, and Jesus Will Return as the spiritual world consumes the physical world we live in presently.

Then you don't believe that Jesus has inherited the kingdom of heaven, because He is flesh? 'Cause that is not what the scriptures say.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then you don't believe that Jesus has inherited the kingdom of heaven, because He is flesh? 'Cause that is not what the scriptures say.

I just remembered we argued this already Scott, pretty indepth, we disagree.

Human Flesh And Blood can't inherit the kingdom.

Jesus Maintains Glorified Flesh And Bone, No Blood.

Jesus currently maintains the wounds of calvary.

Zechariah 13:6KJV
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Ephesians 5:30KJV
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

 

[ScottA]

I just remembered we argued this already Scott, pretty indepth, we disagree.

Human Flesh And Blood can't inherit the kingdom.

Jesus Maintains Glorified Flesh And Bone, No Blood.

"For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

 

[Truth7t7]

"For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Jesus currently maintains the wounds of calvary.

Zechariah 13:6KJV
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Dispensationalism in the majority teaches Revelation 3:10 represents a secret pre-tribulation rapture of the Church to heaven.

They contend this is how the Church will be kept from the hour of temptation, rapture out before the tribulation.

Revelation 3:10KJV
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Isaiah 26:20-21 below is how the Church will be kept from the hour of Earth's temptation, as the Church will enter their dwellings and shut their doors, just like the "Passover In Egypt"!

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Although we as Bible Students believe in the dispensations (or ages) as taught in the scriptures, we in no way believe in any secret rapture as it is commonly taught by many in the professing church. There is however a rapture, but it is no secret, the Apostle has attempted to explain it on several occasions.

This "rapture" contrary to the one which the professing church teaches doesn't involve any avoidance of death, but instead death is prerequisite, the words of the Lord being, "Be thou faithful until death and thou shall received the crown" (Rev 2:10). As we stated before, if one is not willing to bear the cross even as our Lord, then they can't wear the crown. Did our Lord merely suffer for a while and then mysteriously disappear or did he physically die first and then disappear?

This "rapture" the Apostle refers to as our translation at the moment of death. In a way it is secret in that to our friends and family we have simply died and "sleep" in death awaiting the resurrection as all others, but as spirit begotten children of God, if we have proven ourselves faithful until death, having made our calling and election sure, there is no "sleep" in death, but at the moment of death in the twinkling of an eye we are translated instantaneously to our spirit bodies and joined with the Lord.

 

[Harvest 1874]

No. The end is the end.

If you were dead...all these things would have come to pass, and you would believe, just as Jesus said.

In other words, men missed the first coming of Christ - His own people, for God's sake. Thus, historic events do not tell anything to those who do not see. But death does. Therefore, Christ told us that "the kingdom of heaven does not come with observation", and Paul told us rather that instead of the obvious historic events that people look for, these things do not come as such, "but each one in his own order."

Who said anything about the dead? The dead no nothing, we're talking about the living those attempting to comprehend prophetic events as to ascertain whether they have been fulfilled or not.

 

[Ac28]

Rev 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

That verse proves that, when it was written, everything was prophetic and future. If tradition is right in this case, and if this book was written in 96AD, it was written 33 years after the nation Israel was set aside by God and 26 years after the temple was destroyed (last prophecy fulfilled). Israel was set aside through the inspired words of Paul in about 63AD, or in Ac 28:28, due to their failure, as a nation, to accept Christ as their promised Messiah. Since all prophecy involves the nation of Israel, and since Israel hasn't existed for 1955 years, in God's eyes, it is impossible that any prophecy has been fulfilled since 70AD. Therefore, everything in Revelation is still future.

There is zero proof that Israel becoming a nation in 1948 was a fulfillment of prophecy and, when examined, no part of it even slightly resembles the way the Bible says it will happen. God had no part in it. The Talmudic Jews are essentially all unbelievers and certainly aren't the ones God would choose to occupy the land. Also, only a very small percentage of the promised land is occupied by these usurpers. When God gathers the true Israel, all of the promised land will be theirs.

In about 2063, the present all-Gentile 2000 year parenthetical church period, whose purpose is to fill Heaven with saved Gentiles at the first resurrection (probably occurring in about 2063), will be over. After that, real Israel will be back on the scene and prophecy will start being fulfilled once again.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus currently maintains the wounds of calvary.

Zechariah 13:6KJV
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Yes, for He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. But that does not mean that the flesh is glorified, no, the flesh passes away and is no more, all things have been made new - but new by the spirit of God, not by the dust of the earth which was manifest for a time that every eye should see.

If we return to God, whom is spirit, we return in spirit. This all that Jesus committed to the Father, and those who follow Him, do likewise, and do not hold on to the flesh, nor do they give it the glory...for the glory is God's, whom is spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Who said anything about the dead? The dead no nothing, we're talking about the living those attempting to comprehend prophetic events as to ascertain whether they have been fulfilled or not.

I have said it, which I have done in accordance with Christ, who has given us the time "that no man can know"...which is the his own death, "in his own order."

But you are correct to say that the dead know nothing. On the contrary, it is the living, though they die, that shall not see death. But it is at this time, whether in death or in life, that "every eye shall see Him."

 

[Enoch111]

This "rapture" contrary to the one which the professing church teaches doesn't involve any avoidance of death...

This is incorrect and contrary to Scripture (never mind what the professing church teaches).

In fact it is quite the opposite.

Here is what the Bible says:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thess 4:17).

The *translation* of Enoch is an example of the Rapture:By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb 11:5)

There are many (such as yourself) who are falsely asserting that the Rapture is simply the death of the saints. As you can see, that is complete nonsense.