Jesus as a Stumblingstone

[amadeus]

"and they said 'we will build us a tower, lest we be scattered'"

lol
let's not forget we each have a different definition for 'tree' ok
i am confused, yes

We are all confused in some measure until we have overcome all of our world as Jesus did. Who else has done it? Gives a clue as to where Babylon is today, eh?

 

[quietthinker]

We should not confuse the Church with Israel (the 12 tribes), and God shows us the difference between the two entities in Revelation 7.

ISRAEL
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (Rev 7:4)

Of the tribe of Manasses (Manasseh) were sealed twelve thousand. (v 6)
Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand (v 8)

Joseph had two sons -- Ephraim and Manasseh. In Revelation 7:8 we have "Joseph" instead of "Ephraim", but the meaning is clear. Those are two of the twelve tribes and have nothing to do with the Church per se.

THE CHURCH
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands (Rev 7:9).

So we conclude that:

1. The Church is NOT Ephraim

2. Christ is a Stumbling Stone to UNBELIEVING JEWS (Israel) who are damned because of their unbelief.

There are certain understandings which are keys to unlocking the language and meaning (intent) of scripture. Without them fanciful interpretations have and will abound till Jesus returns.
Understanding comes only as the heart submits, allowing God to teach, all else is ego out of control.

 

[Taken]

This is a crucial topic...as it regards us more than we think. Here it is helpful to get doctrinal things right in order to see this clearly.

Is. 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Here we see Jesus as a stumblingstone to BOTH houses of Israel. That includes us. We are not of Judah...but of Ephraim.

(already some will be left behind in this discussion due to us being Israel and people getting overly caught up with ONE aspect of Israel...the natural Israel.)

Israel, is;
A Man, ie Jacob.
A Nation, ie Promised Land, via God.
..............ie Declared Land, via man.
A People, ie Who accepted Gods Word, Before Gods Words Name and manifestation in the Flesh was Revealed.
A People, ie Who accept Gods Word, called Jesus, manifested in the Flesh.
A People, called Gods People.

While the latter ^ are Grafted in as Israel, and primarily Gentiles, Some Jews historically and in this day Also ACCEPT Jesus as the Word of God manifested in the Flesh...and Many Jews will accept Jesus before the Opening of the Fifth Seal during the Tribulation, and they Saved from enduring the Great Tribulation, themselves being Saved by and Through and unto the Lord Jesus.

I will agree the Nation of America has been instrumental historically in Accepting and Promoting Biblical Principles of Christianity, Without Force of demanding Individuals to Believe...void of Statutes forcing a National Belief within Federal legislation.

And we can Observe the teetering, dependent of Who is sitting in the Oval Office of FOR or Against ISRAEL being promoted and influencing others.

The open Faithfulness in America IS declining, and the open rejection of Christ thee Lord our God IS increasing AND encouraged AND Tolerated.

"All" Nations shall Come Against Israel.
In America, We are observing and many tolerating (ie. embracing those who reject the Lord) That prophecy come into fruition.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

There are certain understandings which are keys to unlocking the language and meaning (intent) of scripture.

and what might these understandings be termed, in your opinion? ty

Without them fanciful interpretations have and will abound till Jesus returns.

Return to Me, and I will return to you

i guess

 

[quietthinker]

and what might these understandings be termed, in your opinion? ty
Return to Me, and I will return to you

i guess

Wisdom is justified by all her children.
When man attempts in his wisdom to understand God, God uses what man calls foolishness to save those who believe the straight testimony.
It is evident with the too-ing and fro-ing of irrelevancies in various topics of this board that fog justifies mans logic.
Jesus said, my yoke is easy and my burden light. What do we think this means if not teaching from the courts above?

 

[bbyrd009]

Wisdom is justified by all her children.
When man attempts in his wisdom to understand God, God uses what man calls foolishness to save those who believe the straight testimony.
It is evident with the too-ing and fro-ing of irrelevancies in various topics of this board that fog justifies mans logic.
Jesus said, my yoke is easy and my burden light. What do we think this means if not teaching from the courts above?

i was just curious if you had reduced the unlabelled "understandings" of your prior post to a single term,
"There are certain understandings which are keys to unlocking the language and meaning (intent) of scripture."
or are there a few diff "understandings" there, and have you developed an example maybe?

i ask bc we are all more or less fam with "symbolism, context," and prolly even "changed definitions," and maybe there is not even a word for what you are trying to express, but imo it is illuminating to try.

Jesus said, my yoke is easy and my burden light. What do we think this means if not teaching from the courts above?

hmm, for me it's more like being allowed time for the obvious to dawn on me without being punished for being willfully blind or something lol. The implications of "teaching from the courts above" might be better understood by a teacher i guess

 

[quietthinker]

i was just curious if you had reduced the unlabelled "understandings" of your prior post to a single term,
"There are certain understandings which are keys to unlocking the language and meaning (intent) of scripture."
or are there a few diff "understandings" there, and have you developed an example maybe?

i ask bc we are all more or less fam with "symbolism, context," and prolly even "changed definitions," and maybe there is not even a word for what you are trying to express, but imo it is illuminating to try.
hmm, for me it's more like being allowed time for the obvious to dawn on me without being punished for being willfully blind or something lol. The implications of "teaching from the courts above" might be better understood by a teacher i guess

I cannot give you a formula but I do know that God responds to the humble seeking heart.

 

[bbyrd009]

I cannot give you a formula but I do know that God responds to the humble seeking heart.

amen!
i ask bc any term you might apply to your understanding, even if it is not perfect, might likely suggest a new perspective for people.
"dialectics" is fairly off-putting :)