The Five Points of Calvinism

[CoreIssue]

Romans 8 does not say God knows who will first love Him.
It says for WHOM He did Foreknow, not for What He did foreknow.
He knew those sinners He marked out for salvation,4x the passage says WHOM rom8:29-30

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Foreknowledge before predestination.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Those verses include the doctrine of free will: the wicked CHOOSE it.

“The wicked choose it.” They know no different than what this world has shown and taught them until God shows them something new. Until He opens their eyes and ears. Man doesn’t and can not open his own ears and eyes to Spirit. It has to be birthed ...born. That which is flesh...is flesh. Spirit is NOT born of flesh but Spirit is born of Spirit. Keep them in hell by continuing to justify it by saying flesh can bear itself Spiritual eyes and ears and because it doesn’t ...they are evil and those smart enough to produce a response to God by flesh are not evil. All flesh is the same. Dead works without Spirit. 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

[CoreIssue]

“The wicked choose it.” They know no different than what this world has shown and taught them until God shows them something new. Until He opens their eyes and ears. Man doesn’t and can not open his own ears and eyes to Spirit. It has to be birthed ...born. That which is flesh...is flesh. Spirit is NOT born of flesh but Spirit is born of Spirit. Keep them in hell by continuing to justify it by saying flesh can bear itself Spiritual eyes and ears and because it doesn’t ...they are evil and those smart enough to produce a response to God by flesh are not evil. All flesh is the same. Dead works without Spirit. 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit they gained the knowledge of good and evil. Ever since then every human born has the law of conscience within them. So they most assuredly know good and evil.

Adam and Eve and Satan had free will. They chose to sin.

Every human has free will and chooses.

 

[farouk]

Romans 8:20-21
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

‘vanity’ ...God chooses, not man. The birth is from above, not of man or man’s will or abilities. The circumcision is made without hands, made with God’s hand...man doesn’t do it. Then we reduce it all to ...but I believed first therefore I made the choice.

We believe because it is a work of God(Spirit). The word says the work of God is this: we believe on the Son.
‘born from above’ circumcised of God.

“The work of God” implies not man’s work but the word says “God’s work.” Is this.
Romans 9:15-16 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. [16] So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

How many times does God need to say it is Him so no man can claim it is of man? Yet we still do. We are not listening yet we claim ears. Jesus Christ crucified all things vain and void ...there is no respect of persons. why would God who freed us from the bondage of vanity and puffed up pride then put us back underneath ‘man does it’.

John 3:7-8
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. [8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.



Do you have a problem with Christ ruling? To know He will and IS ruling over all? No. Because Christ does not rule as man rules but by Spirit. Do we look with hope toward the rule of the children of God? No. Because God says all the creation is anxious to be set free unto the children of God.

Which is better:
the spirit of a man ruled by the flesh.
Or the flesh ruled by the Spirit?

Yes, this is a searching aspect: the will of God ruling instead of the will of the flesh. Indeed, John 1.13 says that the new birth is not of the will of the flesh.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Those verses include the doctrine of free will: the wicked CHOOSE it.

Luke 23:33-35
[33] And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. [34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him , saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

 

[farouk]

Luke 23:33-35
[33] And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. [34] Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. [35] And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him , saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

Solemn passage, indeed...

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I totally agree that Jesus doesn't talk about force.
Calvinism does. Jesus does not teach Calvinism.

I love Truth and Christ.
I am completely opposed to Calvinism.

It is the L in TULIP- Limited atonement. God only loves some people and only died for some people. The rest were created by God fallen, devoid of any choice, and pre-destined by God to go to Hell.

Those verses include the doctrine of free will: the wicked CHOOSE it.
Calvinism denies free will.

Jane demonstrates an inability to deal with these 4 verses...jn10:26-30.
She cannot welcome or understand the verses so she avoids scripture as she cannot answer at all.
Jesus teaching is where the system known as Calvinism comes from.
If she or anyone else would attempt to work through the verses they might get a glimpse of the truth.

 

[Dave L]

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Foreknowledge before predestination.

This is not what "foreknowledge" means.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes, this is a searching aspect: the will of God ruling instead of the will of the flesh. Indeed, John 1.13 says that the new birth is not of the will of the flesh.

But the new birth is the will of our spirit.

The flesh is not a person that thinks. It has no logic or reason. It only has biological drives.

The spirit is born again. The flesh will not be cleansed until glorification.

 

[farouk]

This is not what "foreknowledge" means.

It's not simply a 'God happened to know beforehand' idea; it's an active setting aside for blessing.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I totally agree that Jesus doesn't talk about force.
Calvinism does. Jesus does not teach Calvinism.

I love Truth and Christ.
I am completely opposed to Calvinism.

It is the L in TULIP- Limited atonement. God only loves some people and only died for some people. The rest were created by God fallen, devoid of any choice, and pre-destined by God to go to Hell.

Those verses include the doctrine of free will: the wicked CHOOSE it.
Calvinism denies free will.

You did not answer the question once again.Can you show any Calvinist teaching what you claim
Can you use scripture at all?

 

[CoreIssue]

This is not what "foreknowledge" means.

Original Word

Word Origin
proginwvskw from (4253) and (1097)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Proginosko 1:715,119
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
prog-in-oce'-ko Verb

Definition

1. to have knowledge before hand
2. to foreknow
   1. of those whom God elected to salvation
3. to predestinate

Predestinate means to predetermine, once again to know ahead.

You edited the passage to remove foreknowledge.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Foreknowledge before predestination.

Biblical foreknowledge does not mean God looks forward to see what happens.
It means an intimate knowledge of those sinners He intends to save.
There are 5 links to this unbreakable chain.Whom,predestined, called justified,glorified ...
None of which is true of those who remain unsaved.

 

[Dave L]

Original Word

Word Origin
proginwvskw from (4253) and (1097)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Proginosko 1:715,119
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
prog-in-oce'-ko Verb

Definition

1. to have knowledge before hand
2. to foreknow
   1. of those whom God elected to salvation
3. to predestinate

Predestinate means to predetermine, once again to know ahead.

You edited the passage to remove foreknowledge.

If you put your spin on it, it means God chooses the self-righteous and not those who cannot save themselves.

 

[CoreIssue]

Biblical foreknowledge does not mean God looks forward to see what happens.
It means an intimate knowledge of those sinners He intends to save.
There are 5 links to this unbreakable chain.Whom,predestined, called justified,glorified ...
None of which is true of those who remain unsaved.

And yet again here is the word meaning and it does not mean what you claim

The passage clearly states foreknowledge before predestination. You have predestination before forknowledge.28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
prog-in-oce'-ko Verb

Definition

1. to have knowledge before hand
2. to foreknow
   1. of those whom God elected to salvation
3. to predestinate

Predestinate means to predetermine, once again to know ahead.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit they gained the knowledge of good and evil. Ever since then every human born has the law of conscience within them. So they most assuredly know good and evil.

Adam and Eve and Satan had free will. They chose to sin.

Every human has free will and chooses.

Giving man way too much credit. You do realize they cover themselves with fig leaves? Same fig leaves when Jesus came looking for fruit and only found leaves (cover) with no fruit. ‘Nothing thereon, but leaves only.’ Matthew 21:19-20 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. [20] And when the disciples saw it , they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

John 6:29
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you agree it is not dead works so it (believing)can’t be a work of the flesh void of the Spirit of God. Where there is the Spirit of God there is Life.

God chooses.

 

[CoreIssue]

If you put your spin on it, it means God chooses the self-righteous and not those who cannot save themselves.

That is your spin, not what I said.

 

[Dave L]

That is your spin, not what I said.

You think salvation is only for the self-righteous, and not for those who cannot save themselves.

 

[CoreIssue]

Giving man way too much credit. You do realize they cover themselves with fig leaves? Same fig leaves when Jesus came looking for fruit and only found leaves (cover) with no fruit. ‘Nothing thereon, but leaves only.’ Matthew 21:19-20 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. [20] And when the disciples saw it , they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

John 6:29
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you agree it is not dead works so it (believing)can’t be a work of the flesh void of the Spirit of God. Where there is the Spirit of God there is Life.

God chooses.

The leaves simply show they knew they were naked when they did not know. Thus a gain of knowledge they did not have before.

The point I made stands and you can tries hard as you want to escape it, but you cannot.

 

[CoreIssue]

You think salvation is only for the self-righteous, and not for those who cannot save themselves.

Why don't you ask what I believe instead of trying to tell me why I believe.

No sinner can save themselves. They must recognize they are hopelessly lost and need Christ to save them.

The self-righteous do not believe they need saving.

Asking God to save one is not saving themselves. It is throwing themselves on the mercy and grace of Christ out of recognition they cannot do it themselves.

Your thinking is truly warped. You deny free well and then try to deny Calvinism says people are robots. You deny the simple reality only a puppeteer God would function as you claim.

Fact remains in your beliefs there is absolutely no need for the white throne judgment. After all, we're preprogrammed robots that have no choice in the issue.