Seventh Day Adventist Beliefs

[GerhardEbersoehn]

How can anyone figure out anything if days are treated as years?

We need to stick with the way Scripture presents prophetic days and years, and actually gives us a solid basis for interpretation.

1260 days/30 = 42 months/12 = 3 1/2 years = time ( 1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time (6 months).

So when we come to 2,300 days, we apply the same math.
2300 days/30 = 76.67 months/12 = 6.39 years = 6 yrs and 4.68 months = 6 years, 4 months, and 21 days.

Since Daniel's 70th week = 7 years, we are short by about 7 months.

All I can make out is that SDA is for super intelligent people; not for plebs like me.

 

[Enoch111]

All I can make out is that SDA is for super intelligent people; not for plebs like me.

We have a thread on Seventh Day Adventist Beliefs. Their fundamental beliefs are indeed sound and biblical, but their eschatological beliefs are not. They believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist, so 1260 days becomes 1260 years, and 2300 days becomes 2300 years. There are also a few other beliefs with which other Christians would not agree. But we cannot justly classifying SDAs as a cult. That would be dishonest.

 

[Dave L]

We have a thread on Seventh Day Adventist Beliefs. Their fundamental beliefs are indeed sound and biblical, but their eschatological beliefs are not. They believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist, so 1260 days becomes 1260 years, and 2300 days becomes 2300 years. There are also a few other beliefs with which other Christians would not agree. But we cannot justly classify SDAs as a cult. That would be dishonest.

Most all of the Reformed and Lutheran creeds identified the papacy as Antichrist. The reason "Dispies" do not is because the papacy doesn't want them to. The Catholic Counter Reformation created the main elements of Dispensationalism to deceive protestants. Inserting a gap into the 70 weeks, making them think the Antichrist was future, and not the Papacy.

 

[quietthinker]

Typical cult response.

If you knew what you were talking about regarding EGW CoreIssue, perhaps there would be something to discuss. Perhaps some progress could be made, but where willing ignorance and unfounded accusations exist, one hits a wall.

 

[Enoch111]

Most all of the Reformed and Lutheran creeds identified the papacy as Antichrist.

And this is patently false for the simply reason that the Antichrist is allotted just 3 1/2 years for full control of the inhabitants of the world.

1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years.

 

[CoreIssue]

If you knew what you were talking about regarding EGW CoreIssue, perhaps there would be something to discuss. Perhaps some progress could be made, but where willing ignorance and unfounded accusations exist, one hits a wall.

So says the SDA follower.

 

[quietthinker]

And this is patently false for the simply reason that the Antichrist is allotted just 3 1/2 years for full control of the inhabitants of the world.

1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years.

Enoch, the prophetic day = one literal day leaves you hamstrung in the sense that it is impossible to do anything with the interpretation that makes any sense.
Without starting dates, what can be determined of any significance that make all the prophecies harmonise?

Do you not think that brakelite's has a point when stating that the counter reformation efforts by Rome resulted in futuristic interpretations to take the heat off themselves?

 

[quietthinker]

So says the SDA follower.

Your stubbornness does you no service!
There are better approaches than lumping people into categories.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

We have a thread on Seventh Day Adventist Beliefs. Their fundamental beliefs are indeed sound and biblical, but their eschatological beliefs are not. They believe that the Papacy is the Antichrist, so 1260 days becomes 1260 years, and 2300 days becomes 2300 years. There are also a few other beliefs with which other Christians would not agree. But we cannot justly classifying SDAs as a cult. That would be dishonest.

Nearly halve a century I have been asking / telling the SDA, It is NOT so that <<2300 days becomes 2300 years>> because 2300 'days' are not DAYS in Daniel, but 2300 "evening and morning oblations / offerings". So the SDA started the very good habit of recycling. Use oblations to manufacture days; reuse the days to manufacture weeks, reuse the weeks to manufacture years, and reuse <<the 2300 years>> to manufacture the doctrine and use the doctrine to finally manufacture manure.

 

[quietthinker]

Nearly halve a century I have been asking / telling the SDA, It is NOT so that <<2300 days becomes 2300 years>> because 2300 'days' are not DAYS in Daniel, but 2300 "evening and morning oblations / offerings". So the SDA started the very good habit of recycling. Use oblations to manufacture days; reuse the days to manufacture weeks, reuse the weeks to manufacture years, and reuse <<the 2300 years>> to manufacture the doctrine and use the doctrine to finally manufacture manure.

You must be quiet insightful after nearly half a century....hmmmm, perhaps you could explain these prophecies in a clearer way?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Most all of the Reformed and Lutheran creeds identified the papacy as Antichrist. The reason "Dispies" do not is because the papacy doesn't want them to. The Catholic Counter Reformation created the main elements of Dispensationalism to deceive protestants. Inserting a gap into the 70 weeks, making them think the Antichrist was future, and not the Papacy.

Good!

 

[Davy]

That is simply anti-pretrib Rapture propaganda, not worth wasting time on. This doctrine has been within Scripture since Christ spoke of the Rapture BEFORE His crucifixion (John 14:1-3). The apostles and early Christians believed in and taught an IMMINENT Rapture, and that is what is taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5. And several of the Early Church Fathers also held to this doctrine.

Well, no, it's not propaganda. John Nelson Darby in 1830's Great Britain got the pre-trib rapture idea from the Edward Irving Church that he had attended. Then Darby began preaching the theory in his Church. Up to that time the Christian Church throughout its history held to a post-tribulational coming of Christ Jesus and gathering of His Church.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Lord Jesus was specific... that His coming and gathering of His saints is 'After' the tribulation. He says that directly, not in metaphor nor parable. Those two gathering examples in His Olivet discourse align perfectly with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of the Church at His second coming.

It would be ABSURD to imagine that the Rapture and the Second Coming are simultaneous, since that would be a deliberate omission of the Marriage of the Lamb, as well as a spiritual and physical impossibility. Notice that in the Second Coming Christ comes WITH His saints and angels, not FOR His saints. And because He comes to execute judgment there is universal weeping, wailing, and mourning (Rev 1:7). Not something that would be associated with the Rapture.

What is absurd is the vain attempt by men to change the timing Jesus Himself said when He would come to gather His saints:

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

And if you'll notice verse 31 of who is gathered there, it's about the saints that are in heaven that have already died, and then are resurrected. Those are the 'asleep' saints Paul said Jesus will bring with Him when He comes. The Mark 13 version shows the saints still alive on earth being gathered, which is the other group gathered per Paul in 1 Thess.4. You ought to read it sometime, instead of just swallowing doctrines of men like a big mouth bass sucking a plastic lure.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You must be quiet insightful after nearly half a century....hmmmm, perhaps you could explain these prophecies in a clearer way?

To be honest, I don't understand the far greater part of Daniel and Revelation although I believe I may have far better interpretations and analyses than any of any author representative of any denomination I have seen so far. And you know why I feel free and safe to make such a claim? Because I decided from the word go that a few things must be my guidelines, they were, 1. Be honest in every respect, be it with the Text or myself; 2. Make it simple; 3. Be true to The True Witness; 4. Let go and let God about the incomprehensible. I concluded Revelation should be understood as the Fifth Gospel. Maybe Daniel could be seen as the precursor of Revelation; it cannot be its identical twin; but the first rule stands, Is Jesus Christ its "FULLNESS of fulfilment". If not, I am wrong, not Daniel or Revelation.

Now the SDAs <2300 days-years> exposes nothing of the True Witness... not to me.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you not think that brakelite has a point when stating that the counter reformation efforts by Rome resulted in futuristic interpretations to take the heat off themselves?

That may be so, but we need not look outside Scripture to interpret what is revealed in Daniel and Revelation.

We know that the spirit of Antichrist exists in the church of Rome, and Mystery Babylon is closely connected to the RCC. The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop is very enlightening. So there will be a very close link between the Man of Sin and Pontifex Maximus.

But God would not allow the Antichrist and Satan worldwide domination for a very long time. And the Bible tells us plainly that it is just 42 months of Hell on earth.

REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast [THE ANTICHRIST], saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This 42 months is expressed as "time (1 year), + times (2 years), and + the dividing of time (6 months)" in Daniel, and "time, times, and half a time" in Revelation. Please note the correspondence between Revelation 13:5,6 and Daniel 7:24,25. Also the ten horns are mentioned in Rev 13:1.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another [the Little Horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Dan 7:24,25)

And this is the same time frame during which the believing Jewish remnant is preserved in the wilderness during the reign of the Antichrist.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

 

[brakelite]

To be honest, I don't understand the far greater part of Daniel and Revelation although I believe I may have far better interpretations and analyses than any of any author representative of any denomination I have seen so far. And you know why I feel free and safe to make such a claim? Because I decided from the word go that a few things must be my guidelines, they were, 1. Be honest in every respect, be it with the Text or myself; 2. Make it simple; 3. Be true to The True Witness; 4. Let go and let God about the incomprehensible. I concluded Revelation should be understood as the Fifth Gospel. Maybe Daniel could be seen as the precursor of Revelation; it cannot be its identical twin; but the first rule stands, Is Jesus Christ its "FULLNESS of fulfilment". If not, I am wrong, not Daniel or Revelation.

Now the SDAs <2300 days-years> exposes nothing of the True Witness... not to me.

The prime starting point in understanding "when shall the sanctuary be cleaned'? I'm Daniel 8:14 lies in the great days. Leviticus 16 is the starting point. Realising that all 3 spring feasts have been fulfilled in Christ... Passover, first fruits, Pentecost, one must assume that the autumn feasts of the literal it must also be fulfilled in anti type . We understand that Tabernacles will be fulfilled after J the second coming... That the feast of trumpets announces the day of atonement, and that the conclusion of the day of atonement... When the high priest leaves the sanctuary for the final time of the festive year, is representative of the second coming itself.
The starting point for the cleansing of the sanctuary... As the angel asked..."how long shall the cleansing be" is answered in Daniell 9. The cleansing of the sanctuary is the day of atonement.
Once understood, it is simple. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. A web site called 1844madesimple - Home may help

 

[brakelite]

That may be so, but we need not look outside Scripture to interpret what is revealed in Daniel and Revelation.

We know that the spirit of Antichrist exists in the church of Rome, and Mystery Babylon is closely connected to the RCC. The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop is very enlightening. So there will be a very close link between the Man of Sin and Pontifex Maximus.

But God would not allow the Antichrist and Satan worldwide domination for a very long time. And the Bible tells us plainly that it is just 42 months of Hell on earth.

REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast [THE ANTICHRIST], saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This 42 months is expressed as "time (1 year), + times (2 years), and + the dividing of time (6 months)" in Daniel, and "time, times, and half a time" in Revelation. Please note the correspondence between Revelation 13:5,6 and Daniel 7:24,25. Also the ten horns are mentioned in Rev 13:1.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another [the Little Horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Dan 7:24,25)

And this is the same time frame during which the believing Jewish remnant is preserved in the wilderness during the reign of the Antichrist.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

Enoch, the 1260 years of papall supremacy in Europe was hell on earth (read Foxxe's Book of Matrys or Wylie's History of the Waldrnses) , but will pale into insignificance when in the future the same spirit is replicated (the image to the beast) in Protestantism and the persecution becomes global and sanctioned by the UN... All nations... The king's of the earth...

 

[quietthinker]

To be honest, I don't understand the far greater part of Daniel and Revelation although I believe I may have far better interpretations and analyses than any of any author representative of any denomination I have seen so far. And you know why I feel free and safe to make such a claim? Because I decided from the word go that a few things must be my guidelines, they were, 1. Be honest in every respect, be it with the Text or myself; 2. Make it simple; 3. Be true to The True Witness; 4. Let go and let God about the incomprehensible. I concluded Revelation should be understood as the Fifth Gospel. Maybe Daniel could be seen as the precursor of Revelation; it cannot be its identical twin; but the first rule stands, Is Jesus Christ its "FULLNESS of fulfilment". If not, I am wrong, not Daniel or Revelation.

Now the SDAs <2300 days-years> exposes nothing of the True Witness... not to me.

Away you go then. Let's hear of your better interpretations of the time prophecies!

 

[quietthinker]

That may be so, but we need not look outside Scripture to interpret what is revealed in Daniel and Revelation.

We know that the spirit of Antichrist exists in the church of Rome, and Mystery Babylon is closely connected to the RCC. The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop is very enlightening. So there will be a very close link between the Man of Sin and Pontifex Maximus.

But God would not allow the Antichrist and Satan worldwide domination for a very long time. And the Bible tells us plainly that it is just 42 months of Hell on earth.

REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast [THE ANTICHRIST], saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This 42 months is expressed as "time (1 year), + times (2 years), and + the dividing of time (6 months)" in Daniel, and "time, times, and half a time" in Revelation. Please note the correspondence between Revelation 13:5,6 and Daniel 7:24,25. Also the ten horns are mentioned in Rev 13:1.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another [the Little Horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. (Dan 7:24,25)

And this is the same time frame during which the believing Jewish remnant is preserved in the wilderness during the reign of the Antichrist.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:14)

I am familiar with Hislop's Two Babylons. The parallels he draws fit hand in glove with the Roman system. Your scriptural quotes are not disputed particularly your high lighted texts. Daniel and Revelation are on the same dance floor in regards to timing. It is how to understand the time frames mentioned.

Keeping all things in context and consistent, where does your understanding of a day for a day take you or leave you considering that the return of Jesus is a stones throw away?

Looking outside of scripture to understand how to interpret Daniel and Revelation is definitely out of the question particularly prophetic time utterances.

 

[Dave L]

And this is patently false for the simply reason that the Antichrist is allotted just 3 1/2 years for full control of the inhabitants of the world.

1260 days = 42 months = 3 1/2 years.

Numbers are symbolic in Revelation. You miss the message completely by forcing a literal interpretation on to the symbols.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Away you go then. Let's hear of your better interpretations of the time prophecies!

The Everlasting Eternal Covenant of Grace has since eternity before the creation of the world been established in the full Fellowship of the Trinity the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the New Covenant!

The New Covenant has better promises. That says the Gospel of Jesus Christ has promises based on its fulfilment in and by Jesus Christ. The prophesies in Revelation show how Christ is the future fulfilment of the better promises of the New Covenant. Revelation is not about <time prophecies> it is about Jesus Christ as much as Isaiah is about Him. I repeat, If Christ is not of the essence, Revelation hasn't got any better, and 'eschatological', does not make any better.

To illustrate with the central Message of Revelation in chapter 14. Which church do you see does not claim it fulfils "the Everlasting Gospel" while no church fulfils that prophesy of which Jesus Christ is the Fullness of Fulfilment and 'interpretation', Himself.

If Christ cannot be the better interpretation, then what do you suggest, might be? I shall never reach the end of my 'better interpretations' of Revelation's prophecies. My Source is unfathomable and inexhaustible; in fact, scarcely, like now, have I begun, or I am dumbfounded by its vastness and depth of meaning. That's why I have written a great lot on Revelation, yet, put together it never came together in a single volume. Also the content of what I have always written with the years became more and more concentrated into things like this very post wherein I try to say everything of importance with nothing of no importance.