Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[justbyfaith]

The goal is always restoration my friend. Read Hosea and Gomer. She played the (repeated) whore and yet he took her back. He even went so far as to buy her back for the price of a slave, but she was not his slave but his wife. When a Brother offends you, you go to him alone and if he repents, that's the end of it. If he doesn't, you take 1 or 2 with you so that there are 2 or 3 witnesses to establish what has transpired. If he still doesn't repent, you then bring him before the local assembly and if he repents, then that's the end of it. If not, you cast him out. But throwing him out is after you have exhausted all means if restoration.

I am in a situation right now where a brother held a grudge against me for the period of a whole year and then started the process of wanting to have me cast out of the church out of the blue; because he has the spirit of unforgiveness and because I tried to minister to him on the issue. Now he has unforgiveness towards me, because I gave him an angry look at one point when he was railing against his father (not mentioning any names here). I didn't side with him on the issue; because I had just previous to a year ago when it was all happening, repented of dishonoring my own father by my words. So my judgment of my own sin carried over into the situation of his own dishonouring of his father. He cornered me in the bathroom and told me to repent of judging him; and then took it to the elders. In all reality he skipped a step; because he should have gotten a mutual friend to witness my reaction to his confrontation instead of taking it to the church immediately. From what I gather, his intention was not to restore but to destroy; his intention was to have me cast out of the church. He considered that it is always a sin to judge; while I only judged him as a gut reaction while my tongue did not rise up against him in judgment. (I also apologized to him for having that reaction in my gut). I will not take up a reproach against my neighbor, Psalms 15, even in this thing I am hiding the name of the person from the general public. But my motivations for ministering to him on the issue was because I wanted him to live long on the earth and for it to be well with him; because I am speaking of the first commandment with a promise (Ephesians 6:1-3). He also told his wife and the eldership that, because my wife and I are on social security/disability, that I do not take care of my wife (and that therefore I am worse than an unbeliever...1 Timothy 5:8). Iow, he was trying to spread poison about my character and tarnish my name. He said that I do not even wake up until 12:00 in the afternoon; which I recalled later was a lie (in the moment I actually believed him because love believes all things and that is the way my mind works; sometimes I don't recall the facts until later when I am told a lie, even when I am fully aware of the facts) because most days I get up around 5:00am so that I can work the internet. I put my free time to good use, in that I operate as a watchman on these boards; my "job" is to labour in the word and in doctrine.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You mentioned you had on secret underwear= mormon...lol.

I still don’t get the connection.

#dense

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am in a situation right now where a brother held a grudge against me for the period of a whole year and then started the process of wanting to have me cast out of the church out of the blue; because he has the spirit of unforgiveness and because I tried to minister to him on the issue. Now he has unforgiveness towards me, because I gave him an angry look at one point when he was railing against his father (not mentioning any names here). I didn't side with him on the issue; because I had just previous to a year ago when it was all happening, repented of dishonoring my own father by my words. So my judgment of my own sin carried over into the situation of his own dishonouring of his father. He cornered me in the bathroom and told me to repent of judging him; and then took it to the elders. In all reality he skipped a step; because he should have gotten a mutual friend to witness my reaction to his confrontation instead of taking it to the church immediately. From what I gather, his intention was not to restore but to destroy; his intention was to have me cast out of the church. He considered that it is always a sin to judge; while I only judged him as a gut reaction while my tongue did not rise up against him in judgment. (I also apologized to him for having that reaction in my gut). I will not take up a reproach against my neighbor, Psalms 15, even in this thing I am hiding the name of the person from the general public. But my motivations for ministering to him on the issue was because I wanted him to live long on the earth and for it to be well with him; because I am speaking of the first commandment with a promise (Ephesians 6:1-3). He also told his wife and the eldership that, because my wife and I are on social security/disability, that I do not take care of my wife (and that therefore I am worse than an unbeliever...1 Timothy 5:8). Iow, he was trying to spread poison about my character and tarnish my name. He said that I do not even wake up until 12:00 in the afternoon; which I recalled later was a lie (in the moment I actually believed him because love believes all things and that is the way my mind works; sometimes I don't recall the facts until later when I am told a lie) because most days I get up around 5:00am so that I can work the internet. I put my free time to good use, in that I operate as a watchman on these boards; my "job" is to labour in the word and in doctrine.

Seems like he has a bad spirit about him. We have to keep order in church or it will run amok with anything and everything. He had no business going directly to the elders until he had one or two ppl go with him to talk to you. I am not saying you were wrong, but if he felt wronged by you, that was his next step, and he failed to do so. The church should have sent him back and had him do the second step and reject him approaching the elders.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I am in a situation right now where a brother held a grudge against me for the period of a whole year and then started the process of wanting to have me cast out of the church out of the blue; because he has the spirit of unforgiveness and because I tried to minister to him on the issue. Now he has unforgiveness towards me, because I gave him an angry look at one point when he was railing against his father (not mentioning any names here). I didn't side with him on the issue; because I had just previous to a year ago when it was all happening, repented of dishonoring my own father by my words. So my judgment of my own sin carried over into the situation of his own dishonouring of his father. He cornered me in the bathroom and told me to repent of judging him; and then took it to the elders. In all reality he skipped a step; because he should have gotten a mutual friend to witness my reaction to his confrontation instead of taking it to the church immediately. From what I gather, his intention was not to restore but to destroy; his intention was to have me cast out of the church. He considered that it is always a sin to judge; while I only judged him as a gut reaction while my tongue did not rise up against him in judgment. (I also apologized to him for having that reaction in my gut). I will not take up a reproach against my neighbor, Psalms 15, even in this thing I am hiding the name of the person from the general public. But my motivations for ministering to him on the issue was because I wanted him to live long on the earth and for it to be well with him; because I am speaking of the first commandment with a promise (Ephesians 6:1-3). He also told his wife and the eldership that, because my wife and I are on social security/disability, that I do not take care of my wife (and that therefore I am worse than an unbeliever...1 Timothy 5:8). Iow, he was trying to spread poison about my character and tarnish my name. He said that I do not even wake up until 12:00 in the afternoon; which I recalled later was a lie (in the moment I actually believed him because love believes all things and that is the way my mind works; sometimes I don't recall the facts until later when I am told a lie) because most days I get up around 5:00am so that I can work the internet. I put my free time to good use, in that I operate as a watchman on these boards; my "job" is to labour in the word and in doctrine.

Well, you're failing miserably in doctrine and the word. Frankly you understand neither. That, and there are two sides to your story. Since you've shown a propensity to misrepresent and libel here, even misrepresenting God and his word/doctrine, it certainly makes it plausible you do so in church, the world &c.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I still don’t get the connection.

#dense

Www.redbubble mormon secret underwear

 

[justbyfaith]

Seems like he has a bad spirit about him. We have to keep order in church or it will run amok with anything and everything. He had no business going directly to the elders until he had one or two ppl go with him to talk to you. I am not saying you were wrong, but if he felt wronged by you, that was his next step, and he failed to do so. The church should have sent him back and had him do the second step and reject him approaching the elders.

This person in particular, his salvation is very delicate, he is offended easily; and everyone in the church walks on eggshells around him and caters to him so that he will not forsake the assembly.

 

[justbyfaith]

We have to keep order in church or it will run amok with anything and everything.

I have been in church situations where perfect liberty is present to do anything; but the Lord keeps everything in the proper order.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,

[Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

[In v.1, I would refer to the fact that Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life; no man cometh to the Father except through me, in John 14:6. We are declared righteous by faith in Jesus; we have seen that our faith is counted for righteousness in previous messages in this thread. Because we have been declared righteous by our faith in Him, we now have peace with God the Father through Him. Before we came to Christ, we were at war with the Lord. We were friends of the world and at enmity with God, James 4:4. Now we are at enmity with the world and are friends of the Lord. All that is of the world is not pleasing to God: the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life; these things are our enemies, now that we have Christ in our hearts our eyes are opened to the fact that these things are catalysts for sin in our lives and to the fact that they fight against our souls.]

There are true statements in this paragraph. none of these things are found in Romans 5:1 however.

verse one starts with the word..THEREFORE...linking to Romans 3:24-5:1.
We our justified by the work of Jesus on our behalf.
Faith is the instrument that enables us to gain access.
Faith is given as part of the gift of salvation.

verse 1 is speaking of believers only
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: R

1]being justified...the unsaved are not justified

2]we have peace with God.....there is no peace to the wicked

[In v.2, I want to for a brief moment address the issue of the Calvinistic teaching that salvation and grace come before faith.]

Although Paul was a Calvinist...he was not concerned about such questions here. He was presenting doctrinal certainty, so why are you trying to address a question that is not in these texts?

[It should be clear that this verse teaches that faith comes before grace.]

It is not giving an order of when ,it is explaining what is the instrumentality of how we are granted access, that is...by or through faith.....NEVER DOES IT SAY BECAUSE OF FAITH


[The final word (to date) in a medium-sized thread on the issue, I will place below, because it answers the contention that this passage is to believers only and therefore does not teach that we truly did gain access into the grace wherein we stand by our faith; and that therefore, since faith is the catalyst for entering into grace, faith must come before grace; that is, we must have faith before we can have grace, since our entrance into grace is through our faith.]
HERE YOU ARE STANDING IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THE PASSAGE...it is written to the believers at Rome, not the world


Watch here I will bolden[in blue] everything true of believers, none of which is true of unbelievers...


5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom

The we, the justified, the reconciled are only the Christians.

 

[justbyfaith]

1]being justified...the unsaved are not justified

So are you saying that the unsaved cannot be justified? if we are saved, is it not true that there was a time when we weren't justified? How did we gain our access into justification? We were born dead in trespasses and sins. If we cannot be justified from such a state, then no one can be saved; because no one was born living in their heavenly mansion. If you are living in it now you gained access to it at some point in the past by taking the key and opening the door and walking in and taking possession of your mansion.

It is not giving an order of when ,it is explaining what is the instrumentality of how we are granted access, that is...by or through faith.....NEVER DOES IT SAY BECAUSE OF FAITH

Just keep closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la la la la".

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,

[So are you saying that the unsaved cannot be justified?]

No...i have not said something so stupid as that. Are you trying to escape the discussion?
All men are born spiritually dead....obviously God saves sinners, just not all of them.
Paul was speaking to justified Christians is the point of this text.

[ if we are saved, is it not true that there was a time when we weren't justified?]
This is to avoid the discussion and the text. Let's focus on the text.

[How did we gain our access into justification?]
I addressed this in my post, did you read it?

[We were born dead in trespasses and sins. If we cannot be justified from such a state, then no one can be saved;]

This is a monster strawman, I did not say or post anything like this.I hope you do not think this is a response to what was posted.P4T posted a parody earlier on your posting, that parody is more of a response than this.

[because no one was born living in their heavenly mansion. If you are living in it now you gained access to it at some point in the past by taking the key and opening the door and walking in and taking possession of your mansion.]

This idiotic posting about a key to a mansion is not found in these texts. If you want to write fables and stories that is up to you, but you have not dealt with these texts at all.

{Just keep closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la la la la".]
Are you mentally defective? if you are let me know and i will not trouble you. If you are not I will ask that you actually deal with my post.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith,

[So are you saying that the unsaved cannot be justified?]

No...i have not said something so stupid as that. Are you trying to escape the discussion?
All men are born spiritually dead....obviously God saves sinners, just not all of them.
Paul was speaking to justified Christians is the point of this text.

If all men are born spiritually dead, then there was a time in which they did not have access to the grace of the Lord. You seem to be trying to say that because Romans 5:2 is speaking of believers, that there was not a time in which the same were unbelievers. They gained access into grace by faith. Were they already in grace when they gained access? If they weren't, then they were unbelievers who gained access by faith into this grace wherein they now stand as believers. But you won't humble yourself to admit that this is the plain meaning of the text. Your Calvinistic viewpoint blinds you to the truth.

[How did we gain our access into justification?]
I addressed this in my post, did you read it?

I'm sorry but you are going to have to repeat yourself: I did not see where you addressed this in your post; not even after going back and looking for it.

[because no one was born living in their heavenly mansion. If you are living in it now you gained access to it at some point in the past by taking the key and opening the door and walking in and taking possession of your mansion.]

This idiotic posting about a key to a mansion is not found in these texts. If you want to write fables and stories that is up to you, but you have not dealt with these texts at all.

It is indeed a parable wrought from the texts. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. The mansion represents standing in grace in this parable, and the key represents the faith that we place in Jesus to gain access into grace (the mansion). I put it in human terms so you can see my point more clearly.

But it is a parable so that,

Mar 4:11, And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12, That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

And it is also written on the same issue:

Mat 13:14, And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15, For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[CoreIssue]

It's not that important to me. You first, or not at all.

All you get is sermonizing that has nothing to do with verses.

 

[justbyfaith]

Faith is the instrument that enables us to gain access.

This means that we don't have access to grace apart from faith. How is it then that you say that grace comes first?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,


[If all men are born spiritually dead, then there was a time in which they did not have access to the grace of the Lord.]
Paul is not speaking of this. He is speaking of those who are justified....can you possibly focus

[You seem to be trying to say that because Romans 5:2 is speaking of believers, that there was not a time in which the same were unbelievers.]
No...I am not trying to say any such thing. That is a fact.

[They gained access into grace by faith. Were they already in grace when they gained access?]
This has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If you reacted to what I posted there is no need to go over it.
Jesus seeks and saves the lost, He gives grace to enable the elect to move with fear;
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

[ If they weren't, then they were unbelievers who gained access by faith into this grace wherein they now stand as believers. But you won't humble yourself to admit that this is the plain meaning of the text. Your Calvinistic viewpoint blinds you to the truth.]
You have not dealt with the text, or my post....You are unwilling and unable to do so. Everyone can see it.

[I'm sorry but you are going to have to repeat yourself: I did not see where you addressed this in your post; not even after going back and looking for it.]

No..I will not repeat myself. If you are too lazy to act like a man, and a Christian man at that, you can stay in your ignorance. They said you would not answer. I gave you a chance, you failed

[It is indeed a parable wrought from the texts. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. The mansion represents standing in grace in this parable, and the key represents the faith that we place in Jesus to gain access into grace (the mansion). I put it in human terms so you can see my point more clearly.]
Men do not have any such faith, but you are not interested in truth

 

[justbyfaith]

[They gained access into grace by faith. Were they already in grace when they gained access?]
This has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

It has everything to do with it. The fact that you are ignoring this information is the reason why you have interpreted the scripture at hand incorrectly.

No..I will not repeat myself.

The fact of the matter is that you didn't address what was written, even thought you say you did.

If you are too lazy to act like a man, and a Christian man at that, you can stay in your ignorance.

Wasn't being lazy; looked for it and couldn't find it. You are being obtusive. You are saying that you gave an answer when you didn't. If you won't do it, then I ask anyone on your side to copy and paste anything you said that might have addressed the issue in question. Because I just don't see it. If it is even there, it is like a needle in a haystack.

I will pray for your salvation (because your tongue rose up against me in judgment, that indicates to me that you're not saved).

 

[justbyfaith]

Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

justbyfaith,


[Wasn't being lazy; looked for it and couldn't find it. You are being obtusive. You are saying that you gave an answer when you didn't. ]

I did answer it....stop being a loser, man up
Post 488, answer it

If it is too difficult, scroll back 8 pages...there it is...quit stalling

 

[SovereignGrace]

This person in particular, his salvation is very delicate, he is offended easily; and everyone in the church walks on eggshells around him and caters to him so that he will not forsake the assembly.

I am not judging him by saying this, but this person seems to be a lost person parading around as being saved. Your assembly may have an addition by subtracting him from it. The whole assembly shouldn't cater to one person repeatedly. I think he knows this and is feeding off of it.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

justbyfaith,


[Wasn't being lazy; looked for it and couldn't find it. You are being obtusive. You are saying that you gave an answer when you didn't. ]

I did answer it....stop being a loser, man up
Post 488, answer it

If it is too difficult, scroll back 8 pages...there it is...quit stalling

That's the entire problem, you type out a biblical response, he either doesn't read it, or disregards it then says you never answered. To top that off he won't actually read it or give it any credit of being a biblical answer that corrects and/or refutes him. You've asked him to stop being a loser and be a man? Quite a feat bro.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I am not judging him by saying this, but this person seems to be a lost person parading around as being saved. Your assembly may have an addition by subtracting him from it. The whole assembly shouldn't cater to one person repeatedly. I think he knows this and is feeding off of it.

There are always two sides to a story. I am more concerned with @justbyfaith than some person with emotional disorders or what have you. Perhaps he too will become concerned when he is enlightened as to his errors, and of course this only comes from God; Ephesians 1:15-23. Wrong Gospels don't bring truth or full deliverance.

And this: