The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Phoneman777]

You're nothing more than Romans 9:20 on display.

I can easily say the same about those who preach the "exclusivity religion" of Calvinism - that which so closely resembles the religion of Lucifer.

 

[Phoneman777]

You know fully well the butcher job "free will" does to the image of God.

You better stop celebrating your anniversary to your wife, seeing that her love shown you all these years has been nothing but a "butcher job", right? Maybe you should buy her a set of Ginsu knives instead of chocolates

 

[Dave L]

You better stop celebrating your anniversary to your wife, seeing that her love shown you all these years has been nothing but a "butcher job", right? Maybe you should by her a set of Ginsu knives instead of chocolates

You are the butcher of divinity making God out to be the unstable bully free will depicts him as being.

 

[Phoneman777]

You are the butcher of divinity making God out to be the unstable bully free will depicts him as being.

Which actions are more in line with the concept of "bullying":

1. God allowing every man the choice to either serve Him or Satan.
2. God programming some to serve Him for all eternity while equipping the rest of us with an outdated OS for which there are no updates, bug fixes, or tech support....and then eventually smashing us into bits because we can't run properly or keep freezing up.

 

[Dave L]

Which actions are more in line with the concept of "bullying":

1. God allowing every man the choice to either serve Him or Satan.
2. God programming some to serve Him for all eternity while equipping the rest of us with an outdated OS for which there are no updates, bug fixes, or tech support.

God bullies people into saying "uncle" or bribes them to say "uncle" under the free will theory.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

God allowing every man the choice to either serve Him or Satan.

Scripture? NO Scripture! No Scripture for any of the LIES here given absolute credence. <God allows...> God never <allows>; what did Christ die for if God could <allow> man the choice for or against Him?

And <allows every man>! What sheer nonsensical lie of unreality!

Worst: <... choice .. either .. Him or Satan.>! Scripture? NO Scripture! As if that ever could be a possibility! A possibility God, would allow! Would allow lost sinners : in favour of the devil! What corrupt conception free-willers have of God or his holiness!

 

[Phoneman777]

God bullies people into saying "uncle" or bribes them to say "uncle" under the free will theory.

Dave, condemning Free Will because the one using it has no love for God is like condemning the .50 cal bullet because the idiot sniper forgot to pack his scope.

BTW, God's revelation to us about the reward for choosing right and the consequences of choosing wrong makes Him no more a bully than does a father imparting the same wisdom to the children he loves.

 

[justbyfaith]

If any of this were taught in Scriptures, I would be inclined to agree. However, it is not. Not only does Scripture deny this 'Christ died for all', but simple logic suffices to see this as well [though, Scriptures are enough for me]

Scriptures:
Belief is granted to men. If the point of the Cross is to save all, why did God not grant belief to everyone?
~ Philippians 1:29
~ Titus 2:14
~ John 6:35-40
~ John 10:24-29

Why does Jesus not pray for everyone in the whole world, but rather for those the Father has given if His blood was to cover every sin of every man?
~John 17:1-11
~John 17:20
~John 17:24-26

Passages speaking of Christ's work being for a particular people:
~ Matthew 1:21
~ Matthew 20:28
~ Matthew 26:28
~ John 10:11
~ John 11:50-53
~ Ephesians 5:25-27
~ Romans 8:32-34
~ Hebrews 2:17
~Hebrews 3:1
~ Hebrews 9:15
~ Hebrews 9:28

Logic:

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

1. All the sins of all men.
2. All the sins of some men, or
3. Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

1. That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.
2. That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.
3. But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, "Because of unbelief."

I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"

To explain the final point a bit further, Unbelief is either a sin or it is not. If it is a sin, did Christ not die for the penalty of this sin as well? If He did, then all are in Heaven, and if He did not, His blood was limited in it's effectiveness.

If unbelief is not a sin, then there is no punishment for it and therefore all men are in Heaven.

Even logically, Christ could not have died for all the sins of all men ever, because if He did then all men will be in Heaven, Christian or not.

I see that this has been already answered adequately; but I think that I will say it again.

Christ died for all the sins of all men; and has made the condition and entrance into forgiveness faith in Him.

Therefore, unbelief or rejection of Him would effectively keep a person from experiencing the forgiveness that Christ offers.

The sin of unbelief/rejection of Christ is indeed paid for, if it be repented of; because a person can indeed be forgiven of unbelief or rejection of Christ if or when they turn to Him in repentance.

Therefore the problem in the Calvinistic proposition above, is that the person giving it does not believe that repentance is a requirement for salvation. This amounts to the teaching that grace is a license for sin; because if a man can be saved without repentance, then he doesn't need to turn from his sins in order to be saved. And if this be the case, he can go on in his sins and still be saved. Thus, grace covers his sins even though he continues to walk in them. Grace as a license for sin.

 

[Phoneman777]

Scripture? NO Scripture! No Scripture for any of the LIES here given absolute credence. <God allows...> God never <allows>; what did Christ die for if God could <allow> man the choice for or against Him?

And <allows every man>! What sheer nonsensical lie of unreality!

Worst: <... choice .. either .. Him or Satan.>! Scripture? NO Scripture!

Lucifer once appeared to Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Alice A. Bailey as "Dwal Kuhl the Tibetan master" and convinced them of the "truths" which became the charter for so many organizations like their Theosophical Society - that only those Lucifer selects for "illumination" will receive eternal riches and they referred derogatorily to their own initiates as having "the little wills of men". Sounds EXACTLY like you Calvinists.

 

[Phoneman777]

I see that this has been already answered adequately; but I think that I will say it again.

Christ died for all the sins of all men; and has made the condition and entrance into forgiveness faith in Him.

Therefore, unbelief or rejection of Him would effectively keep a person from experiencing the forgiveness that Christ offers.

The sin of unbelief/rejection of Christ is indeed paid for, if it be repented of; because a person can indeed be forgiven of unbelief or rejection of Christ if or when they turn to Him in repentance.

Therefore the problem in the Calvinistic proposition above, is that the person giving it does not believe that repentance is a requirement for salvation. This amounts to the teaching that grace is a license for sin; because if a man can be saved without repentance, then he doesn't need to turn from his sins in order to be saved. And if this be the case, he can go on in his sins and still be saved. Thus, grace covers his sins even though he continues to walk in them. Grace as a license for sin.

Amen

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Here is something for my brothers on here to think about, and digest, and glory in God over.

Each time Satan used Scripture, it was to the glory of the indulging, ability and the gain of the flesh:

In the Garden in Genesis 3:1. In the temptation of Christ in Matthew 4. To what he planted in Judas' heart in John 13:2.

Each time we show that salvation is not via the will, the flesh, the choosing, that we are unable, have no ability, these on here go right back to their ability, what the flesh can do, what their flesh accomplished in choosing. They twist the Scripture in the same manner, right back to what they can do, what they did, what they gained, their will, and their ability. It is an aversion to giving God all the glory.

This is why Christ told us John 6:63; John 6:44; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 &c.

Do we see, my brothers, the big problem here?

 

[Dave L]

Dave, condemning Free Will because the one using it has no love for God is like condemning the .50 cal bullet because the idiot sniper forgot to pack his scope.

BTW, God's revelation to us about the reward for choosing right and the consequences of choosing wrong makes Him no more a bully than does a father imparting the same wisdom to the children he loves.

Free will still turns God into a bully. Any school kid who has been bullied knows this. It's the same principle, say "uncle " or else.

 

[Laish]

Lucifer once appeared to Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Alice A. Bailey as "Dwal Kuhl the Tibetan master" and convinced them of the "truths" which became the charter for so many organizations like their Theosophical Society - that only those Lucifer selects for "illumination" will receive eternal riches and they referred derogatorily to their own initiates as having "the little wills of men". Sounds EXACTLY like you Calvinists.

From the man who said he was not comparing Calvinist to followers of Lucifer . Well I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but I was wrong . Have a excellent time I tried showing you what I believe while you ... well you know you lied earlier about your comparisons. Lying to make a point shows the lack of a point and integrity There is no need for further dialogue with you . Your in my prayers
Blessings
Bill

 

[Phoneman777]

Free will still turns God into a bully. Any school kid who has been bullied knows this. It's the same principle, say "uncle " or else.

You mean the God Who died for our sins without which no man could be saved? The same "consuming fire" God that offers us the same fireproof clothes the rest of His cosmic creatures wear - that being sinless characters? I think you're confusing Him with the god of "exclusivity religions" like Luciferian societies and Calvinism.

 

[Phoneman777]

From the man who said he was not comparing Calvinist to followers of Lucifer . Well I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but I was wrong . Have a excellent time I tried showing you what I believe while you ... well you know you lied earlier about your comparisons. Lying to make a point shows the lack of a point and integrity There is no need for further dialogue with you . Your in my prayers
Blessings
Bill

I tolerate a lot from people, but I draw the line at willfully ignorant accusations.

I'm comparing the philosophies of Calvinists and Luciferians, not their individuals themselves, comprendo?

 

[Laish]

I tolerate a lot from people, but I draw the line at willfully ignorant accusations.

I'm comparing the philosophies of Calvinists and Luciferians, not their individuals themselves, comprendo?

Yep lies are lies

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Yep lies are lies

They don't mind lying, and glorying in themselves, like, well, you know...

 

[Phoneman777]

Yep lies are lies

You don't understand the difference between criticism of one's philosophy and his character, do you? When emotion, not reason, is in the driver's seat, such inability is to be expected. I'll bet Trump isn't your President either, right?

 

[Phoneman777]

They don't mind lying, and glorying in themselves, like, well, you know...

Oh, no, another one who thinks philosophy defines one's character.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No person is saved by choice. You need to get past this false assumption. James 1:18. John 1:13. These texts clearly show we are not saved via our determination, will, or choice. There are more texts.

You keep arguing against a position nobody holds. It is frustrating.