Reaction Formation

[farouk]

Thank you.
Now I find the ' I am sure you aspire to be a liberated women ' interesting have to think on that one. Is that what I aspire to........ Hmmm , I mean can any Christian really be liberated - don't we aspire more to needing Christ and submitting. Is liberated the same as experiencing freedom in Christ
!!!
You have started a train of thought Farouk, but it's not in line with this thread, and it's nearly one in the morning - better get some sleep xx
Rita

My qualification was that it's truly liberating to be 'truly subject to the Lord's revealed will'! :)

 

[Butterfly]

Definetly xx

 

[Butterfly]

Sorry Mark, kind of got side tracked x

 

[Nancy]

I think words can conjure up different impression to people xx
I think there is a place for both Psychology and scripture. We are called to renew our minds, which is definately where scripture is paramount, but I believe it is vital that we understand ourselves - The Holy Spirit used psychology to help me to know what wrong foundations I had within- they needed to be broken down and replaced with truth. Abuse in childhood had laid some really wrong foundations with how I felt about myself , which in turn led to the eating disorder developing. By the time I had become a Christian at the age of 24 I had pushed down so much into my sub concious and many scriptural truths I just couldn't claim for myself. I knew they were true, but not for me.
Gradually the Lord enabled me to allow the past to surface, through triggers -and rather than push them away, I faced them. Gradually I could see the lies I had been fed, renounced them, and eventually I was able to claim scriptural truth.
For me inner healing took years, for others it may be instant - God moves in different ways with each of us.
I still have inner anxieties, understanding them enables me to understand what I am reacting to- and helps me not to react in the here and now if I know it's a trigger from the past. So understanding my own psychology was liberating - how I think, and why I think, how I respond ect was fascinating x
Sorry I definately am waffling this time.......

"For me inner healing took years, for others it may be instant - God moves in different ways with each of us."
Maybe it that the deeper the hurt, the longer it takes. He is faithful to complete the work just, not always overnight! ♥
"Sorry I definately am waffling this time"

 

[Butterfly]

That's when a person secretly is or does or believes something that they feel is wrong or unacceptable, so they go to extremes in the opposite direction so no one will know. (OK, simplified, but easy to research.)

An example is when someone who secretly drinks too much is the loudest voice against drinking, so no one will suspect they themselves are guilty.

Is this not really summed up as hypocracy - and I actually wonder if anyone is really free from it at times. You know Christians slam a whole range of outward sins, things within the physical realm so to speak - but hypocracy is an inward rooted sin - and I suspect is one of the biggest problems as it really creates a lot of external self righteousness.
Is it a simple case of not wanting to hold ourselves accountable , after all Christians are called to be different, and that includes all aspects of our lives.
It's a human trait to hide and convey a better image - we want people to think good of us.

I have been wondering how it would show itself on the Internet , like in a forum environment where we cannot see one another. ..... It's quite interesting to reflect on.
I wonder how real we are with one another ?
Rita

 

[Nancy]

Is this not really summed up as hypocracy - and I actually wonder if anyone is really free from it at times. You know Christians slam a whole range of outward sins, things within the physical realm so to speak - but hypocracy is an inward rooted sin - and I suspect is one of the biggest problems as it really creates a lot of external self righteousness.
Is it a simple case of not wanting to hold ourselves accountable , after all Christians are called to be different, and that includes all aspects of our lives.
It's a human trait to hide and convey a better image - we want people to think good of us.

I have been wondering how it would show itself on the Internet , like in a forum environment where we cannot see one another. ..... It's quite interesting to reflect on.
I wonder how real we are with one another ?
Rita

Ha, good one Rita...I know there are one or two things about myself that I will only share with a select few. (Ones I know will not reject me because of my past...and we KNOW Christians can turn on us like a snake, and that hurts deeply, especially if you thought they were a friend.) And that in itself makes me feel hypocritical, even though these things are in my past! I don't think it's wrong to NOT disclose every single thing about ourselves, as long as God knows...and He does, and still loves me ♥ And you are right, it is pretty much a human trait to convey a better image to make people think us something better.
Let's just start caring more about what God thinks of us :)
xo

 

[Dave L]

Jesus said "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. You can tell a lot about people from the course of their conversations or from the way they post to forums.

 

[bbyrd009]

What happens when thesis meets antithesis?

that is when you can be assured you are among the Wise I guess.
"Synthesis" should be coming up in there any second...yup.

fwiw Easterners do not reason that way, that is strictly "Greek" thought.
I guess even described as "satan's dialectic?" "Either/or?"
not saying I don't ever use that, but the Naive dialectic runs differently?

which might even be your point there I guess.
there is always a third option, that always seems to require a change of mind
imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Is this not really summed up as hypocracy - and I actually wonder if anyone is really free from it at times. You know Christians slam a whole range of outward sins, things within the physical realm so to speak - but hypocracy is an inward rooted sin - and I suspect is one of the biggest problems as it really creates a lot of external self righteousness.
Is it a simple case of not wanting to hold ourselves accountable , after all Christians are called to be different, and that includes all aspects of our lives.
It's a human trait to hide and convey a better image - we want people to think good of us.

I have been wondering how it would show itself on the Internet , like in a forum environment where we cannot see one another. ..... It's quite interesting to reflect on.
I wonder how real we are with one another ?
Rita

"See why the prostitutes and tax collectors are beating you into the kingdom" huh?

 

[marks]

Sorry I definately am waffling this time.......

. . . and the difference between a waffle and a pancake is . . . the waffle is cooked on both sides at once! I think that's me too!

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Jesus said "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. You can tell a lot about people from the course of their conversations or from the way they post to forums.

Sooner or later one hopes that the believer will be driven by prayer and the Scriptures.

 

[marks]

which might even be your point there I guess.
there is always a third option, that always seems to require a change of mind
imo

And in my opinion also. We can have a difficult time knowing ourselves, much less each other!

:

 

[Butterfly]

. . . and the difference between a waffle and a pancake is . . . the waffle is cooked on both sides at once! I think that's me too!

Much love!

Lol, very good xxx

 

[marks]

not saying I don't ever use that, but the Naive dialectic runs differently?

Haven't heard that term before, so I just looked it up, it's interesting, I'm going to think/read more.

But what's immediately interesting in the Naive dialectic is that a key seems to be something more along the lines of how my thoughts seem to run. While still holding to propositional thinking. Which would be a naive dialectic, if I'm understanding right.

:)

But seriously, I think this has something to do with why things like reaction formation and other mental gymnastics exist. We find ourselves caught between 2 seeming contraditions, both of which we believe. But not realizing there is an unbeforeknown answer that fully accounts for both realities, does not reject the truth of either, and liberates us into a new, albeit propositional, reality.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

And in my opinion also. We can have a difficult time knowing ourselves, much less each other!

:

Navel gazing is, however, to be discouraged...

 

[marks]

Navel gazing is, however, to be discouraged...

Especially if you have my navel!

 

[marks]

that is when you can be assured you are among the Wise I guess.
"Synthesis" should be coming up in there any second...yup.

You know I just love the way you write . . . as I'm reading this, I'm imagining synthesis swinging around like a brick . . .

 

[marks]

Is this not really summed up as hypocracy - and I actually wonder if anyone is really free from it at times. You know Christians slam a whole range of outward sins, things within the physical realm so to speak - but hypocracy is an inward rooted sin - and I suspect is one of the biggest problems as it really creates a lot of external self righteousness.
Is it a simple case of not wanting to hold ourselves accountable , after all Christians are called to be different, and that includes all aspects of our lives.
It's a human trait to hide and convey a better image - we want people to think good of us.

I have been wondering how it would show itself on the Internet , like in a forum environment where we cannot see one another. ..... It's quite interesting to reflect on.
I wonder how real we are with one another ?
Rita

My wife and I are both fascinated with psychology, but knowing that it really only describes the mind of the flesh.

I agree this is hypocracy. A failure to be authentic. People so much look on the outside, and want others to see a good "outside" on us. It can be difficult to be authentic especially when we've not grown up that way.

But I see the flesh as my tool box, the mind of the flesh as a diabolical craftsman, and me, the one who wants to build for the kingdom. And to me these things describe how that diabolical craftsman operates, in secret, through deception, and for our bad.

While I find it useful to understand the schemes of the flesh, this mental abberations, at the end of the day, I find that it is through faith in Christ, and specifically in His grace, that allow me to walk away from them.

I like to talk about this so we can all understand (me too) that there are reasons for why we do what we do, and we don't have to be a "black box" to ourselves.

In overcoming some of my issues, "demystification" has been an integral part.

When I would act or think in ways inconsistent with my values, I wouldn't understand why, and felt helpless. True faith overcomes without needing anything extra. I guess God knows I'm a weak child, and gave me more information.

Much love!
Mark

 

[bbyrd009]

Haven't heard that term before, so I just looked it up, it's interesting, I'm going to think/read more.

But what's immediately interesting in the Naive dialectic is that a key seems to be something more along the lines of how my thoughts seem to run. While still holding to propositional thinking. Which would be a naive dialectic, if I'm understanding right.

:)

But seriously, I think this has something to do with why things like reaction formation and other mental gymnastics exist. We find ourselves caught between 2 seeming contraditions, both of which we believe. But not realizing there is an unbeforeknown answer that fully accounts for both realities, does not reject the truth of either, and liberates us into a new, albeit propositional, reality.

Much love!

im still kind of working that out myself, dunno if the diff is in "synthesis" and "compromise" or just what yet. As near as I can tell, "Satan's dialectic v Naive dialectic" might now be deemed "Hegelian v Eastern" dialectic/thought, although there might be better ways to put that. I stick with that bc I see that it can be demonstrated irl, oriental people playing competitive games to a tie, stuff like that.

There's a brief copy/paste on "Hegelian" in post 1here fwiw, Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

 

[bbyrd009]

You know I just love the way you write . . . as I'm reading this, I'm imagining synthesis swinging around like a brick . . .

Lol. Again I'm not positive here, but I think synthesis might be a clever way to say "war"