Why evil?

[marks]

Remember (2 Timothy 3:10-14) and how Paul said “...what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. [12] Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. [13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them ;

Hi ViJ,

This reminds me . . .

2 Timothy 4
16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul was delivered from the mouth of the lion, and Paul had the Lord's promise to deliver him from Every evil work.

Even when Paul was executed. Paul was delivered from the evil work.

The evil work was to destroy Paul, but though it be meant for evil, for Paul, it was (most likely) public execution on behalf of Paul's undying faith in Jesus, to bring eternal glory to Paul in this public display of faith.

Trials turned to gold!

Much love!

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Don’t think He has forgotten the body of Christ (the church) but instead when she is weak ...the power of God Rest upon her all the more(His strength made perfect in weakness). He has delivered His body from the curse of death in Hope: Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Amen, and Amen!!

 

[amadeus]

What is evil? Do we ever miss it when we presume that everything we or any man calls evil really is according to God?

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

Paul's words here help understand if the thing accomplishes "good" in the eyes of God, it is good or...?

And then the example:
How evil was the selling of Joseph into slavery?

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." Gen 50:20

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

 

[Harvest 1874]

I am new here, so this topic you may have crossed paths with. My apologies.
________________________________
How insistent the following verses seem to be.

Proverbs 12:21, “There shall no evil happen to the just…”

Psalm 91:10, “There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.”

Psalm 121:7, “The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.”

Have you found these to be true in your life? Has no evil befallen you or illness come to your home?

Consider Paul’s sufferings: “in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. (2 Cor. 23-27)

What is the hidden lesson here? Do we admit to the presence of evil in our lives at times or do we ignore, even deny, circumstances as Christian Scientists do?

Within my life, I have known heartache, pain, tragedy, loneliness, disappointment, loss, bad choices, and so much more. What was the cause? Did I not make God my dwelling place? Why was evil allowed to befall me? Why hadn’t God guarded and delivered me?

What if bad things happen to reasonably good people? Has God forsaken them? Punished them? Taken His hedge away?

See our blog post, The Permission of Evil as well as The Great Mystery of Evil for more insight.

 

[Hope in God]

What is evil? Do we ever miss it when we presume that everything we or any man calls evil really is according to God?

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

Paul's words here help understand if the thing accomplishes "good" in the eyes of God, it is good or...?

And then the example:
How evil was the selling of Joseph into slavery?

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." Gen 50:20

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Rom 8:28

_____________________
A friend once told me that he felt he Holocaust was appointed to all those victims because it led to the eventual birth of the Jewish nation, Israel. Was all that necessary to bring statehood to pass?

Sure, I do believe God sends tribulations into our lives to test us, and that He can cause all things to work together for the good. Those views don't necessarily comfort a person headed for an untimely death. We should chalk it all up to God's sovereignty I am also told. The degree of evil that has existed and still does today is part of God's sovereign will even when He has promised that no evil will befall us?

 

[Episkopos]

The degree of evil that has existed and still does today is part of God's sovereign will even when He has promised that no evil will befall us?

I see it this way. God is not malicious or vindictive. But He has promised us that we will reap as we have sown. If we play with fire we are bound to get burned. God is righteous and not a respecter of people ...whether being Jewish or not. (and we Christians could learn from this)

The holocaust was a terrible thing...a monstrous thing...and many Jews questioned the goodness of a God who would "allow" that.

But I find it ironic that a people who called themselves the "master race" (uber-mensch) would persecute a people as a lesser race of men (untermenschen) who themselves considered all nations as inferior to themselves. As in the idea that...the least Jew is still greater than the greatest Gentile. That kind of superior attitude...was reversed back onto themselves.

What was sown for so long was reaped back in a terrible sorting of accounts. So then God's words of warning rings throughout history.

As we have sown so shall we reap. If we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap destruction. But if we sow to the Spirit of the Spirit we shall reap life.
Was the holocaust retribution for their rejection of Christ? I see it that what led natural Israel to reject Christ...the pride of their traditions and Jewishness...led naturally to their plight in the world.

When we reject the God who saves us...can we expect salvation from other means? or condemnation that God was trying to save people from? If we reject His helping hand....can we expect a good outcome? So the righteousness of God is revealed in that He speaks the truth...always. We ignore His warnings to our own peril.

So we are wise to fear the Lord and to depart from pride and thoughts of superiority to others. We are to take the low place....in humility...and watch what God will do. We still reap as we have sown. God will not change that.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Trials turned to gold!

Revelation 3:18
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Never could understand why He says “buy of me gold tried in the fire”. My husband said maybe because it cost all. Been thinking a lot on: 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? [13] But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: [14] And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain(flesh),and your faith is also vain(flesh). [15] Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ(Spirit): whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. [16] For if the dead rise not(Spirit), then is not Christ raised(Spirit): [17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain(flesh); ye are yet in your sins. [18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished(as the flesh perishes). [19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Hope is in the Spirit of God...not the flesh. Consider where the bondage of vanity and corruption is and was crucified so that men could be made free in Hope of the Spirit of God where vanity and corruption are cast out. Is it odd that what is man’s confidence outwardly in the mirror weakens and vanished so that 2 Corinthians 3:18 appears: “But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

His strength made perfect in weakness. What is His strength which overcomes evil and the world if not mercy?
Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.


Rejoice in the Lord!

 

[marks]

His strength made perfect in weakness. What is His strength which overcomes evil and the world if not mercy?

Hi ViJ,

My deepest weaknesses have come through the afflictions I've known. And in these deep and abiding weaknesses, I've seen God's hand and mercy countless times, and it's been in them that I've come to know His amazing and incredible love for me.

My sister, who recently went to the Lord through cancer gave this testimony, "I never knew how much He loved me until I was dying of cancer".

Reminds me of the Psalm . . . He has pity on His worshipers, for He remembers our frame, that we are but dust. (104?)

Much love!

 

[charity]

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
.. which according to His abundant mercy
.... hath begotten us again unto a lively hope
...... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible,
.. and undefiled,
.... and that fadeth not away,
...... reserved in heaven for you,
........ who are kept by the power of God through faith
.......... unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Wherein ye greatly rejoice,
.. though now for a season,
.... if need be,
...... ye are in heaviness
........ through manifold temptations (trials):
That the trial of your faith,
.. being much more precious than of gold that perisheth,
.... though it be tried with fire,
...... might be found unto praise and honour and glory
........ at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Whom having not seen, ye love;
.. in whom, though now ye see Him not,
.... yet believing,
...... ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:'
(1 Peter 1:3-8)

Praise God!

 

[charity]

'But I would ye should understand, brethren,
.. that the things which happened unto me
.... have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
.. And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds,
.... are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
...... Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
........ The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
.......... But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached;
.. and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
.... For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer,
...... and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
According to my earnest expectation and my hope,
.. that in nothing I shall be ashamed,
.... but that with all boldness, as always,
...... so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body,
........ whether it be by life, or by death.'
(Philippians 1:12-20)

Praise God!

 

[marks]

Paul's words here help understand if the thing accomplishes "good" in the eyes of God, it is good or...?

Hi amadeus,

Acts 2:23 "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"

Wicked hands did wickedly, and yet God had a higher purposes, through death to defeat death. Yet still the hands are wicked.

As you have heard it said, that shalt not kill. God is not disengenuous. If He says, Don't murder, then He means, don't murder. But knowing what you are going to do, He can get there before you, so your evil act will be turned by God to a good thing.

But God tempts no one to sin, we cannot claim He is responsible.

Much love!
Mark

 

[charity]

'Let no man say when he is tempted, "I am tempted of God":
.. for God cannot be tempted with evil,
.... neither tempteth He any man:
But every man is tempted,
.. when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
.... Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
...... and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.'
(James 1:13-15)

 

[farouk]

'Let no man say when he is tempted, "I am tempted of God":
.. for God cannot be tempted with evil,
.... neither tempteth He any man:
But every man is tempted,
.. when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
.... Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
...... and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.'
(James 1:13-15)

Hi; shows the implied nature of Lord Jesus own sinlessness because He could never be drawn away of His own lust.

 

[farouk]

Hi ViJ,

My deepest weaknesses have come through the afflictions I've known. And in these deep and abiding weaknesses, I've seen God's hand and mercy countless times, and it's been in them that I've come to know His amazing and incredible love for me.

My sister, who recently went to the Lord through cancer gave this testimony, "I never knew how much He loved me until I was dying of cancer".

Reminds me of the Psalm . . . He has pity on His worshipers, for He remembers our frame, that we are but dust. (104?)

Much love!

Sorry for your loss.

I can well believe your sister's experience. If suffering abounds, so does consolation (2 Corinthians 1.5).

 

[Hope in God]

As I grow older, I see so much suffering in the lives of distant friends, relatives, and within the hospital where I spent 30 years working. I grew up in a location of SW PA where the only real work were foundries, mills, factories and the like. Not one of those chemical, glass, steel and pipe manufacturers had decent air quality, so it's no surprise when I see gatherings of old friends at picnics through photos sent to me that nearly all are sitting in wheelchairs carting oxygen tanks. Man is to blame for all that, I suppose, since both the owners and workers knew the potential costs. Forty of my school friends have already died.

It hurts to see such suffering. "To be absent in the flesh is to present with the Lord" are the words I write on most condolences I send, which must be the perspective I should have, to realize there's no place like "home" and not to think this life will be free of evil despite what interpretations so many promises intend.

 

[farouk]

As I grow older, I see so much suffering in the lives of distant friends, relatives, and within the hospital where I spent 30 years working. I grew up in a location of SW PA where the only real work were foundries, mills, factories and the like. Not one of those chemical, glass, steel and pipe manufacturers had decent air quality, so it's no surprise when I see gatherings of old friends at picnics through photos sent to me that nearly all are sitting in wheelchairs carting oxygen tanks. Man is to blame for all that, I suppose, since both the owners and workers knew the potential costs. Forty of my school friends have already died.

It hurts to see such suffering. "To be absent in the flesh is to present with the Lord" are the words I write on most condolences I send, which must be the perspective I should have, to realize there's no place like "home" and not to think this life will be free of evil despite what interpretations so many promises intend.

A similar comment could be made about life in some fishing villages in some parts of the world. Going out to see in small boats during storms is inherently dangerous and many families lose people who were washed overboard. The Lord knows.

 

[Hope in God]

Revelation 3:18
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Never could understand why He says “buy of me gold tried in the fire”. My husband said maybe because it cost all. Been thinking a lot on: 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? [13] But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: [14] And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain(flesh),and your faith is also vain(flesh). [15] Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ(Spirit): whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. [16] For if the dead rise not(Spirit), then is not Christ raised(Spirit): [17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain(flesh); ye are yet in your sins. [18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished(as the flesh perishes). [19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Hope is in the Spirit of God...not the flesh. Consider where the bondage of vanity and corruption is and was crucified so that men could be made free in Hope of the Spirit of God where vanity and corruption are cast out. Is it odd that what is man’s confidence outwardly in the mirror weakens and vanished so that 2 Corinthians 3:18 appears: “But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”

His strength made perfect in weakness. What is His strength which overcomes evil and the world if not mercy?
Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.


Rejoice in the Lord!

__________________________
The Spirit is what makes our spirits and souls strong, and, I suppose, our flesh as well, as occasionally some will be healed. So we can be as weak as kittens while our spirits are strong. This doesn't necessarily mean what is in the Spirit is obligated to overflow to the flesh. Is that what you mean? I'm reminded of the story of Annie Johnson Flint. He Giveth More Grace | Homecoming Magazine

 

[charity]

'If in this life only we have hope in Christ,
we are of all men most miserable.'
(1 Corinthians 15:19)

'But now is Christ risen from the dead,
and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead.'
(1Corinthians 15:20-21 )

Praise God!

 

[Nancy]

Welcome to CB, and Good topic!!!!!! I like these words that Jesus spoke:

“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33

There is great evil in the world, but we can still have peace to know God has overcome all that.

"Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord , “He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,” and you make the Most High your dwelling, no harm will overtake you, no disaster will come near your tent."
Psalm 91:1‭-‬2‭, ‬9‭-‬10 NIV

A lot of harm befell Job, but he was given back ten fold in the end. I believe when it talks about preserving us from evil, it is talking about preserving us from the evil one. He may win battles in our lives if we forget God is with us and go our own way, but we will never lose the war. Christ already brought victory for us dying on the cross for our sins. He died and rose again and we rose again with Him. We will have life in abundance. But.God really is faithful in watching over us and helping us. But yeh, like with Job and Paul, the enemy is going to fight. It doesn't mean because trouble comes, evil has befallen us. Believers remain in His goodness.

Well put @Mayflower , thank you.
@Hope in God posed a question of my own, lol. Especially this part "Do we admit to the presence of evil in our lives at times or do we ignore, even deny, circumstances as Christian Scientists do?"
You put it well ♥

 

[Mayflower]

Well put @Mayflower , thank you.
@Hope in God posed a question of my own, lol. Especially this part "Do we admit to the presence of evil in our lives at times or do we ignore, even deny, circumstances as Christian Scientists do?"
You put it well ♥

It is definitely present. Evil always will br in this world. Christians are just overcomers by the blood of the lamb and by the Word of His testimony!