Why are the 7 Churches in Revelation each greeted differently...

[Heart2Soul]

All excellent responses as far as I read. I'm going to take a leap here and guess that, since all the letters have the same closing refrain focusing on the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was telling us about the different aspects of the Holy Spirit that would work through the word that He inspired to hold safe and unblemished the Bride of Christ. That is why it is vitally important that the Church study the Book of Revelation (and why a blessing is attached to the reading and study of it). Unfortunately, Christians, as a whole, do NOT read and study it and perhaps one of the reasons we have never formulated a very comprehensive theology of the Holy Spirit is that lack. Especially in these Last Days (and what I believe to be the last of the Last Days) we need to keep pursuing the meaning of this last word of the word of God.

Excellent....this is exactly where I have been led to understand....
I heard a minister the other day say.....
people read what they believe instead of believing what they read......let that soak in!

 

[rockytopva]

The seven churches were addressed differently because the issues of the times were different.

Ephesus - Messianic - The Apostle Peter was the Apostle to the Messianics.
Smyrna - Martyr - The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Foxes has the persecutions as ten.
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

I have noticed that the revivals of the Philadelphian church have basically come to an end. In this day and time there is a danger in getting trapped in a denomination that has long ago disappeared into the enchanted ground. I was listening to two sisters talk in an Assembly of God church and they said they heard that in the last days the people were going to have to, "Cut their own paths."

 

[Nancy]

Odd you say that, I’m definitely not a mental giant. One of my catholic brothers informed me just the other day there are solas. I have very limited knowledge of church history.

One said any man having put his hand to the plow and looking back is not fit. What does this mean?

Though I have limited knowledge I still believe God speaks to me through his word, and works his will through me.

Hi Waiting,
I'm not sure what is meant by "solas" either...unless talking about Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) Sola Gratia (Grace Alone) and so on...
The scripture you were talking about with the man looking back after putting his hand to the plow, to me at least means, or could mean that the man is "double minded" so then "unstable in all his ways". Or, maybe he is trying to serve God and Money?
I too have limited knowledge Waiting and like you, know that God speaks to me through His Word and works His will through me too

 

[Waiting on him]

Hi Waiting,
I'm not sure what is meant by "solas" either...unless talking about Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) Sola Gratia (Grace Alone) and so on...
The scripture you were talking about with the man looking back after putting his hand to the plow, to me at least means, or could mean that the man is "double minded" so then "unstable in all his ways". Or, maybe he is trying to serve God and Money?
I too have limited knowledge Waiting and like you, know that God speaks to me through His Word and works His will through me too

So you have heard Him

 

[Heart2Soul]

The seven churches were addressed differently because the issues of the times were different.

Ephesus - Messianic - The Apostle Peter was the Apostle to the Messianics.
Smyrna - Martyr - The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Foxes has the persecutions as ten.
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

I have noticed that the revivals of the Philadelphian church have basically come to an end. In this day and time there is a danger in getting trapped in a denomination that has long ago disappeared into the enchanted ground. I was listening to two sisters talk in an Assembly of God church and they said they heard that in the last days the people were going to have to, "Cut their own paths."

You beat me to it...lol. I was fixing to share in summary what I believe I heard the Holy Spirit say.....here is what I started.....


Okay, I want first thank everyone for their input on this subject. Here is what I am going to share as I heard in my spirit from the Spirit of Truth...
and it is only in part but I didn't want you guys to think I had abandoned this thread.

First, IMHO, we have heard many times people say....Let scripture interpret scripture....what we should be saying is.... let the Holy Spirit interpret scripture through revelation knowledge of His Word. After all He is the writer of it. Not all scripture can be interpreted by another....imo....for example the first book of the Bible has scripture that isn't interpreted by any other scripture, however, it is expanded upon.


So back to what I will share.....with all humbleness....not declaring my own wisdom of it but rather what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me.
I sought in prayer and study and counsel of others and believe in my heart that the 7 churches in Revelation is the judgment upon the church....in various stages of spiritual growth. And knowing that scripture tells us that judgment must first begin with the House of the Lord then this is very easily comprehended.

Let me borrow a part of your post:
Ephesus - Messianic - The Apostle Peter was the Apostle to the Messianics. : This church lost it's first love....the first split of the church began here....today there are over 45K denominations claiming Christian beliefs.

Smyrna - Martyr - The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Foxes has the persecutions as ten. : Persecution was harsh and without prejudice as the rise of Christianity was underway.

Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages.: The lack of power, the Holy Spirit, evident here as pagan worship started rising.

Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.: Much of the pagan worship that had begun came into full maturity at this time. A lot of our pagan holidays started here....such as St. Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, Halloween, and yes even Christmas (through it's perversion of truth...Jesus' birthday is not December 25th)...the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday...etc etc.

Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid: Protestants broke away from the catholic traditions and now we have the new revolution of believers rising up and breaking away from legalism in many ways but creating it in other ways.

Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.: this church struggled with weakness yet remained faithful during times of trial. Christianity came under severe attack from atheists and other faiths opposing the message of Christ the Messiah. In the '70s, Madame O'Hare won her case in the Supreme Court, thereby banning prayer in school. Christians did nothing to stop this wave of anti-christ laws invading our constitution. However, they did experience great revivals and a wave of miracles.

Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?: many of today's churches preach prosperity but leave out the gospel of Christ who is our foundation, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the call of repentance. I believe this is the final judgment concerning the Church.

So as I said....this is only in part....how it relates to the rest of Revelation is what I am seeking to understand.....where does that leave us today? Harvest time....separating wheat from tares, Christ re-establishing His church.
Okay....that is what I saw and heard.

 

[rockytopva]

You beat me to it...lol. I was fixing to share in summary what I believe I heard the Holy Spirit say.....here is what I started.....


Okay, I want first thank everyone for their input on this subject. Here is what I am going to share as I heard in my spirit from the Spirit of Truth...
and it is only in part but I didn't want you guys to think I had abandoned this thread.

First, IMHO, we have heard many times people say....Let scripture interpret scripture....what we should be saying is.... let the Holy Spirit interpret scripture through revelation knowledge of His Word. After all He is the writer of it. Not all scripture can be interpreted by another....imo....for example the first book of the Bible has scripture that isn't interpreted by any other scripture, however, it is expanded upon.


So back to what I will share.....with all humbleness....not declaring my own wisdom of it but rather what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me.
I sought in prayer and study and counsel of others and believe in my heart that the 7 churches in Revelation is the judgment upon the church....in various stages of spiritual growth. And knowing that scripture tells us that judgment must first begin with the House of the Lord then this is very easily comprehended.

Let me borrow a part of your post:
Ephesus - Messianic - The Apostle Peter was the Apostle to the Messianics. : This church lost it's first love....the first split of the church began here....today there are over 45K denominations claiming Christian beliefs.

Smyrna - Martyr - The Apostle Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Foxes has the persecutions as ten. : Persecution was harsh and without prejudice as the rise of Christianity was underway.

Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages.: The lack of power, the Holy Spirit, evident here as pagan worship started rising.

Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.: Much of the pagan worship that had begun came into full maturity at this time. A lot of our pagan holidays started here....such as St. Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, Halloween, and yes even Christmas (through it's perversion of truth...Jesus' birthday is not December 25th)...the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday...etc etc.

Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid: Protestants broke away from the catholic traditions and now we have the new revolution of believers rising up and breaking away from legalism in many ways but creating it in other ways.

Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.: this church struggled with weakness yet remained faithful during times of trial. Christianity came under severe attack from atheists and other faiths opposing the message of Christ the Messiah. In the '70s, Madame O'Hare won her case in the Supreme Court, thereby banning prayer in school. Christians did nothing to stop this wave of anti-christ laws invading our constitution. However, they did experience great revivals and a wave of miracles.

Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?: many of today's churches preach prosperity but leave out the gospel of Christ who is our foundation, the power of the Holy Spirit, and the call of repentance. I believe this is the final judgment concerning the Church.

So as I said....this is only in part....how it relates to the rest of Revelation is what I am seeking to understand.....where does that leave us today? Harvest time....separating wheat from tares, Christ re-establishing His church.
Okay....that is what I saw and heard.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Giuliano]

All excellent responses as far as I read. I'm going to take a leap here and guess that, since all the letters have the same closing refrain focusing on the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was telling us about the different aspects of the Holy Spirit that would work through the word that He inspired to hold safe and unblemished the Bride of Christ. That is why it is vitally important that the Church study the Book of Revelation (and why a blessing is attached to the reading and study of it). Unfortunately, Christians, as a whole, do NOT read and study it and perhaps one of the reasons we have never formulated a very comprehensive theology of the Holy Spirit is that lack. Especially in these Last Days (and what I believe to be the last of the Last Days) we need to keep pursuing the meaning of this last word of the word of God.

I think all agree the Son of Man in the center is Jesus. He holds the seven stars in his hand -- they are called the seven spirits ; but we could use your phrase "different aspects of the Holy Spirit" as well. There is only one Spirit we read elsewhere; and if we read about "the spirit of truth" that tells us what attribute is working. "In his hand" suggests to me that they are all taking direction from Jesus.

We see almost the same thing in Genesis when the lights are placed in the firmament that dived the lower waters and the upper water. While it is true that God put the physical stars in the physical heavens, I think a similar pattern was used to put the seven lights or stars in between upper waters and lower waters. I can't think the "lesser light" is our physical moon since it's said to rule over the night. The moon is in the sky in the day as much as at night -- in physical terms.

Think too about Joseph's dream where sun depicts his father, the moon his mother, and his eleven brothers as stars. This is said to be a prophecy about him being elevated in Egypt with his family bowing down to him. That is one way to look at it; but there is a spiritual interpretation too. I think both interpretations are right, but things did not work out on earth as fully as they did in heaven. I know that may sound outrageous at fist; but consider the fact that Rachel died before that. The moon in Joseph's dream cannot mean Rachel physically. There is other problems when we discuss Rachel:

Matthew 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

First that prophecy was fulfilled in an earthly way when the tribe of Benjamin was led into captivity. Secondly Herod would have killing Jewish babies. Jews were not descended from Rachel, so how could she be weeping for her children? The matter got cleared up for me when I learned that some Jews, even today, call Rachel the "mother of all Israel." Okay, I found a Jewish site that says that It's hard to understand but Rachel, Mother Of Redemption And Return mentions it:

The Midrash puts it this way: Whoever is ready to give one’s life for another passes on his/her name and has quasi-biological continuity through the ones who come after. This is particularly true of Rachel. Though physically she had only two sons, through her self-sacrifice she gave birth to all of them: “He has remembered His mercy and His faithfulness toward the house of Israel” [Psalms 98:3] is taken to refer to, “And God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her” [Gen. 30:22]. And who was the “house” of our ancestor Israel [Jacob]? Surely Rachel! [Genesis Rabbah 73:2]

Impossible? I don't think so. Compare that to what Jesus said about mothers and brothers.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So I believe Rachel can be called the mother of Israel; and I also see a prophecy can be fulfilled more than once. One way is earthly and the other spiritual. Indeed some patterns can be repeated more than twice.

I don't read the "darkness" at Jesus' crucifixion as necessarily being the physical sun stopped shining. Maybe it did; but I think the more important point is that Jacob stopped being the "Sun" -- that source of Light went out -- his job had been finished -- and a new Sun was about to appear in Heavens.

Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

I know that some Protestants don't like the idea of Mary as the Mother of the Church; but I think that's shown by what Jesus told her about John. Mary replaced Rachel.

There are different type of spiritual stars too as Paul tells us. Anyone can, by growing, become a star that God calls by name.

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

For me, that's true for both physical and spiritual stars -- or spiritual suns.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Mathew 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

There is another odd verse which is almost never translated the way the Hebrew reads. It's wrong here.

Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

It rose "for" him, not "upon" him -- in the original Hebrew. "For" looked so wrong, translators substituted "upon." He was not permanently crippled in the flesh as it is easy to think. The spiritual sun heals, as in the verse from Malachi.

 

[Waiting on him]

his job had been finished -- and a new Sun was about to appear in Heavens.

Psalm 19

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think all agree the Son of Man in the center is Jesus. He holds the seven stars in his hand -- they are called the seven spirits ; but we could use your phrase "different aspects of the Holy Spirit" as well. There is only one Spirit we read elsewhere; and if we read about "the spirit of truth" that tells us what attribute is working. "In his hand" suggests to me that they are all taking direction from Jesus.

We see almost the same thing in Genesis when the lights are placed in the firmament that dived the lower waters and the upper water. While it is true that God put the physical stars in the physical heavens, I think a similar pattern was used to put the seven lights or stars in between upper waters and lower waters. I can't think the "lesser light" is our physical moon since it's said to rule over the night. The moon is in the sky in the day as much as at night -- in physical terms.

Think too about Joseph's dream where sun depicts his father, the moon his mother, and his eleven brothers as stars. This is said to be a prophecy about him being elevated in Egypt with his family bowing down to him. That is one way to look at it; but there is a spiritual interpretation too. I think both interpretations are right, but things did not work out on earth as fully as they did in heaven. I know that may sound outrageous at fist; but consider the fact that Rachel died before that. The moon in Joseph's dream cannot mean Rachel physically. There is other problems when we discuss Rachel:

Matthew 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

First that prophecy was fulfilled in an earthly way when the tribe of Benjamin was led into captivity. Secondly Herod would have killing Jewish babies. Jews were not descended from Rachel, so how could she be weeping for her children? The matter got cleared up for me when I learned that some Jews, even today, call Rachel the "mother of all Israel." Okay, I found a Jewish site that says that It's hard to understand but Rachel, Mother Of Redemption And Return mentions it:

The Midrash puts it this way: Whoever is ready to give one’s life for another passes on his/her name and has quasi-biological continuity through the ones who come after. This is particularly true of Rachel. Though physically she had only two sons, through her self-sacrifice she gave birth to all of them: “He has remembered His mercy and His faithfulness toward the house of Israel” [Psalms 98:3] is taken to refer to, “And God remembered Rachel, and God listened to her” [Gen. 30:22]. And who was the “house” of our ancestor Israel [Jacob]? Surely Rachel! [Genesis Rabbah 73:2]

Impossible? I don't think so. Compare that to what Jesus said about mothers and brothers.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

So I believe Rachel can be called the mother of Israel; and I also see a prophecy can be fulfilled more than once. One way is earthly and the other spiritual. Indeed some patterns can be repeated more than twice.

I don't read the "darkness" at Jesus' crucifixion as necessarily being the physical sun stopped shining. Maybe it did; but I think the more important point is that Jacob stopped being the "Sun" -- that source of Light went out -- his job had been finished -- and a new Sun was about to appear in Heavens.

Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

I know that some Protestants don't like the idea of Mary as the Mother of the Church; but I think that's shown by what Jesus told her about John. Mary replaced Rachel.

There are different type of spiritual stars too as Paul tells us. Anyone can, by growing, become a star that God calls by name.

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.

For me, that's true for both physical and spiritual stars -- or spiritual suns.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Mathew 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

There is another odd verse which is almost never translated the way the Hebrew reads. It's wrong here.

Gen 32:31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

It rose "for" him, not "upon" him -- in the original Hebrew. "For" looked so wrong, translators substituted "upon." He was not permanently crippled in the flesh as it is easy to think. The spiritual sun heals, as in the verse from Malachi.

Interesting and beautiful!

Have you ever considered how truly “blessed” Mary was of her Son. How she could be called “blessed” and not cursed yet watched what was given up and how she must have mourned His life taken from the earth(yet returned). the shame He despised yet endure for the joy set before Him in what was to be accomplished. Luke 1:27-28 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. [28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Any wonder or surprise at Mary passed(given)to: John 19:26-28 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! [27] Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. [28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

“Blessed” are they for they will inherit the kingdom of God. “And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.“ Matthew 5:3-9 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [4] Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. [5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. [6] Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. [8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. [9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Is it any surprise or wonder the Son Honored His mother more than we maybe ever consider or realize in “Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.“

 

[Davy]

You beat me to it...lol. I was fixing to share in summary what I believe I heard the Holy Spirit say.....here is what I started.....

Okay, I want first thank everyone for their input on this subject. Here is what I am going to share as I heard in my spirit from the Spirit of Truth...
and it is only in part but I didn't want you guys to think I had abandoned this thread.
....

1. Ephesus - had false apostles show up among them (a test), and they properly dealt with them. But they had left their first love (works of charity), and had need of doing the first works. They apparently had turned to orthodoxy. Paul showed in 1 Corinthians that even if we have the spiritual gifts but are without charity (love), then we are nothing. They were against the doctrines of the followers of Nicolas (Nicolaitans). According to Irenaeus, a 2nd century Greek bishop, the Nicolaitans were followers of Nicolas whom he relates to Gnosticism, those who mixed pagan Greek philosophy with Christian doctrine, and treated Christ's grace as a license to sin.

In the world today, the Gnostic movement is still with us, and in many Churches today. They teach the licentiousness ideas that the Nicolaitans had, even the false idea that once in Christ we can sin no more, thus there is no more need to repent or ask forgiveness of Christ for future sin. So it's not unusual that our Lord Jesus would mention these Nicolaitans in His 1st Church Message, for it is very applicable to today's time as we approach the end of this world. The reason why this matter is so important today, is because it is a type philosophy that permits sin, and brings in a larger membership that will think they are saved, thus it is a favorite method of the prosperity preachers.

2. Smyrna - Jesus had no rebuke. Persecuted by the "synagogue of Satan", those who say they are Jews, but are not. The devil is to cast some of them in prison to be tried 10 days, a pointer to tribulation. These represent a Church of Christ's very elect.

The devil doesn't have to work hard against those who are already deceived into his hand. This is why he especially hates Christ's elect and works hard to try and destroy them.

3. Pergamos - a city in Asia Minor strong in the paganism of Baal. Antipas was martyred there. Followers of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans were also there. So here is a Christian Church claiming to be followers of Jesus, yet they included pagan Baal worshipers and 'free sin' followers (like the concept of 'free love', do what you want, law is dead doctrines of the Nicolaitans). Instead of driving those false worshipers out of the Church for not repenting and changing their lives to follow Jesus, they allowed them to stay in attendance.

Do we have these kind of things going on in some of today's Christian Churches? Yes. We are admonished by our Lord Jesus and His Apostles to live a holy life, not a life of sin. And allowing someone into the Church that we know is doing idol worship, or living in sin without being rebuked? Why should our Lord Jesus bless that kind of Church? Want your Church to be blessed? then get rid of the evil doers in it. Good to do a little pruning every once in a while, and especially in lands which are more loaded with followers of the devil.

4. Thyatira - had a Jezebel teaching in it, and she was teaching idolatry and fornication, i.e. the doctrines of Baal. She claimed to be a prophetess. The Jezebel pattern is from the Old Testament times of the prophet Elijah. King Ahab of northern Israel married Jezebel who was a Baal worshipper from Sidon. She had all of God's prophets killed except for Elijah, and sought his death.

With this Church example, it is pointing to a Christian Church who allows a woman to preach that claims to be a prophetess, but who teaches Baal doctrines also. The doctrines of Baal included sex orgy rituals as part of their religion. Because our Lord Jesus told others at Thyatira that did not have this doctrine were to hold fast to what they already had, and wait for His coming, it reveals the Baal practices likely were done behind closed doors among a certain portion of the Church members. Are you in a Church where some of the members hold secret meetings behind closed doors, practicing rituals? Don't laugh. This is serious business.

5. Sardis - they had a 'name' that they were a living Church, but Jesus said they were actually 'dead'. Must assume He meant like those He rebuked of the scribes and Pharisees, who were like beautiful whited sepulchres outside, but inside were full of dead men's bones (Matthew 23:27). Jesus warned them to remember how they had heard, to strengthen what remained, and to repent, lest He would come upon them 'as a thief', and they would not know what hour He would come upon them.

What doctrines in some Churches today prevent the Christian from understanding the events leading up all the way to Christ's 2nd coming on the last day of this world to gather His Church? We are supposed to know "the times and the seasons" leading up to the end when Jesus returns, like Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5. He told us there that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". Our Lord Jesus specifically mentioned this matter of His coming "as a thief" upon the deceived to those at Sardis (Revelation 3:3).

If you need a stronger hint, here it is. Those "times and the seasons" are not... about a pre-tribulational rapture. That "day of the Lord" will only begin on the final last day of this present world, and it is what will burn man's works off this earth on that day (2 Peter 3:10). Some of these Sardis type Churches are even using men's books of the pre-trib rapture theory to teach their Sunday school classes instead of keeping to God's Word as written. They don't realize their Church is as 'dead' for heeding those things. So why would our Lord Jesus call these followers as being 'dead'? It's because the pre-trib rapture theory is a theory designed to lead the believer to fall away to worship the coming pseudo-Messiah that will appear first, prior to our Lord Jesus' return to destroy that false one. That false one is to work such a great deception with great signs and wonders upon the whole world, that even Christ's elect, IF it were possible, would also be deceived (Matthew 24:23-26).

6. Philadelphia - the key of David is mentioned to these. Jesus set an open door before them that no man can open nor shut. They had kept His Word and not denied His Name. They were persecuted by the "synagogue of Satan", i.e., those who say they are Jews, but do lie and are not. In final, Jesus said He will make those false Jews to come worship at their feet (future Millennium timing). Jesus had no rebuke for them.

All that points emphatically to another Church group of His very elect, those who cannot be deceived, and are sealed with God's seal. That is what that open door that no man can open or shut from them points to. Their being kept from the "hour of temptation" is about their being sealed for the end with God's seal against the deception that is to occur during the end at the great tribulation that Jesus warned. The locusts of Rev.9 are allowed to 'sting' only... those NOT sealed with God's seal. These are sealed with God's seal, another pointer to their being Christ's very elect. You want to understand what to prepare for and watch for? then study about the two Churches for the end that represent Christ's very elect, i.e., the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. And if you don't yet understand about the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" that Jesus mentioned to both of those Churches, then it's time to get on that and study. That matter begins in Genesis 3 and continues throughout God's Word.

7. Laodiceans - They weren't either cold nor hot. They were rich with goods. They thought they had need of nothing, but were wretched and naked, miserable, poor, and blind (all in the spiritual sense). In other words, their materiality is where most of their faith was placed. Jesus instead told them to buy of Him gold tried in the fire, meaning spiritual riches of the world to come that won't perish nor rust, nor stolen, etc., which are gotten through overcoming trials of this world.

Basically the idea of... material peace and safety. If everyone's material needs are fulfilled, one is fat and happy, then there's a tendency to not want to move. It feels good being comfortable and in a place where you have most of life's pleasures. You kind of don't want to upset that apple cart by sticking your neck out for Christ's work which may cause you to lose some of those material comforts. With the coming time of 'great tribulation' in our near future, having all your material needs is going to be one of the peace and safety themes pushed by the coming pseudo-Christ. Craft is to prosper in his hand, and by peace he will destroy (spiritually) many (Dan.8), causing them to believe he is God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

1. Ephesus - had false apostles show up among them (a test), and they properly dealt with them. But they had left their first love (works of charity), and had need of doing the first works. They apparently had turned to orthodoxy. Paul showed in 1 Corinthians that even if we have the spiritual gifts but are without charity (love), then we are nothing. They were against the doctrines of the followers of Nicolas (Nicolaitans). According to Irenaeus, a 2nd century Greek bishop, the Nicolaitans were followers of Nicolas whom he relates to Gnosticism, those who mixed pagan Greek philosophy with Christian doctrine, and treated Christ's grace as a license to sin.

In the world today, the Gnostic movement is still with us, and in many Churches today. They teach the licentiousness ideas that the Nicolaitans had, even the false idea that once in Christ we can sin no more, thus there is no more need to repent or ask forgiveness of Christ for future sin. So it's not unusual that our Lord Jesus would mention these Nicolaitans in His 1st Church Message, for it is very applicable to today's time as we approach the end of this world. The reason why this matter is so important today, is because it is a type philosophy that permits sin, and brings in a larger membership that will think they are saved, thus it is a favorite method of the prosperity preachers.

2. Smyrna - Jesus had no rebuke. Persecuted by the "synagogue of Satan", those who say they are Jews, but are not. The devil is to cast some of them in prison to be tried 10 days, a pointer to tribulation. These represent a Church of Christ's very elect.

The devil doesn't have to work hard against those who are already deceived into his hand. This is why he especially hates Christ's elect and works hard to try and destroy them.

3. Pergamos - a city in Asia Minor strong in the paganism of Baal. Antipas was martyred there. Followers of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans were also there. So here is a Christian Church claiming to be followers of Jesus, yet they included pagan Baal worshipers and 'free sin' followers (like the concept of 'free love', do what you want, law is dead doctrines of the Nicolaitans). Instead of driving those false worshipers out of the Church for not repenting and changing their lives to follow Jesus, they allowed them to stay in attendance.

Do we have these kind of things going on in some of today's Christian Churches? Yes. We are admonished by our Lord Jesus and His Apostles to live a holy life, not a life of sin. And allowing someone into the Church that we know is doing idol worship, or living in sin without being rebuked? Why should our Lord Jesus bless that kind of Church? Want your Church to be blessed? then get rid of the evil doers in it. Good to do a little pruning every once in a while, and especially in lands which are more loaded with followers of the devil.

4. Thyatira - had a Jezebel teaching in it, and she was teaching idolatry and fornication, i.e. the doctrines of Baal. She claimed to be a prophetess. The Jezebel pattern is from the Old Testament times of the prophet Elijah. King Ahab of northern Israel married Jezebel who was a Baal worshipper from Sidon. She had all of God's prophets killed except for Elijah, and sought his death.

With this Church example, it is pointing to a Christian Church who allows a woman to preach that claims to be a prophetess, but who teaches Baal doctrines also. The doctrines of Baal included sex orgy rituals as part of their religion. Because our Lord Jesus told others at Thyatira that did not have this doctrine were to hold fast to what they already had, and wait for His coming, it reveals the Baal practices likely were done behind closed doors among a certain portion of the Church members. Are you in a Church where some of the members hold secret meetings behind closed doors, practicing rituals? Don't laugh. This is serious business.

5. Sardis - they had a 'name' that they were a living Church, but Jesus said they were actually 'dead'. Must assume He meant like those He rebuked of the scribes and Pharisees, who were like beautiful whited sepulchres outside, but inside were full of dead men's bones (Matthew 23:27). Jesus warned them to remember how they had heard, to strengthen what remained, and to repent, lest He would come upon them 'as a thief', and they would not know what hour He would come upon them.

What doctrines in some Churches today prevent the Christian from understanding the events leading up all the way to Christ's 2nd coming on the last day of this world to gather His Church? We are supposed to know "the times and the seasons" leading up to the end when Jesus returns, like Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5. He told us there that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". Our Lord Jesus specifically mentioned this matter of His coming "as a thief" upon the deceived to those at Sardis (Revelation 3:3).

If you need a stronger hint, here it is. Those "times and the seasons" are not... about a pre-tribulational rapture. That "day of the Lord" will only begin on the final last day of this present world, and it is what will burn man's works off this earth on that day (2 Peter 3:10). Some of these Sardis type Churches are even using men's books of the pre-trib rapture theory to teach their Sunday school classes instead of keeping to God's Word as written. They don't realize their Church is as 'dead' for heeding those things. So why would our Lord Jesus call these followers as being 'dead'? It's because the pre-trib rapture theory is a theory designed to lead the believer to fall away to worship the coming pseudo-Messiah that will appear first, prior to our Lord Jesus' return to destroy that false one. That false one is to work such a great deception with great signs and wonders upon the whole world, that even Christ's elect, IF it were possible, would also be deceived (Matthew 24:23-26).

6. Philadelphia - the key of David is mentioned to these. Jesus set an open door before them that no man can open nor shut. They had kept His Word and not denied His Name. They were persecuted by the "synagogue of Satan", i.e., those who say they are Jews, but do lie and are not. In final, Jesus said He will make those false Jews to come worship at their feet (future Millennium timing). Jesus had no rebuke for them.

All that points emphatically to another Church group of His very elect, those who cannot be deceived, and are sealed with God's seal. That is what that open door that no man can open or shut from them points to. Their being kept from the "hour of temptation" is about their being sealed for the end with God's seal against the deception that is to occur during the end at the great tribulation that Jesus warned. The locusts of Rev.9 are allowed to 'sting' only... those NOT sealed with God's seal. These are sealed with God's seal, another pointer to their being Christ's very elect. You want to understand what to prepare for and watch for? then study about the two Churches for the end that represent Christ's very elect, i.e., the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. And if you don't yet understand about the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" that Jesus mentioned to both of those Churches, then it's time to get on that and study. That matter begins in Genesis 3 and continues throughout God's Word.

7. Laodiceans - They weren't either cold nor hot. They were rich with goods. They thought they had need of nothing, but were wretched and naked, miserable, poor, and blind (all in the spiritual sense). In other words, their materiality is where most of their faith was placed. Jesus instead told them to buy of Him gold tried in the fire, meaning spiritual riches of the world to come that won't perish nor rust, nor stolen, etc., which are gotten through overcoming trials of this world.

Basically the idea of... material peace and safety. If everyone's material needs are fulfilled, one is fat and happy, then there's a tendency to not want to move. It feels good being comfortable and in a place where you have most of life's pleasures. You kind of don't want to upset that apple cart by sticking your neck out for Christ's work which may cause you to lose some of those material comforts. With the coming time of 'great tribulation' in our near future, having all your material needs is going to be one of the peace and safety themes pushed by the coming pseudo-Christ. Craft is to prosper in his hand, and by peace he will destroy (spiritually) many (Dan.8), causing them to believe he is God.

You took it deeper than I did...but you are also presenting the physical church itself as I am sharing the spiritual condition and how it changes. Which parallels with the church movement from then til now....it sets the time frame for where we are today in regards to God restoring His Church.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You took it deeper than I did...but you are also presenting the physical church itself as I am sharing the spiritual condition and how it changes. Which parallels with the church movement from then til now....it sets the time frame for where we are today in regards to God restoring His Church.

I apologize @Davy, you did a great job...i read through your post too fast and missed some key points you were making.

 

[Heart2Soul]

1. Ephesus - had false apostles show up among them (a test), and they properly dealt with them. But they had left their first love (works of charity), and had need of doing the first works. They apparently had turned to orthodoxy. Paul showed in 1 Corinthians that even if we have the spiritual gifts but are without charity (love), then we are nothing. They were against the doctrines of the followers of Nicolas (Nicolaitans). According to Irenaeus, a 2nd century Greek bishop, the Nicolaitans were followers of Nicolas whom he relates to Gnosticism, those who mixed pagan Greek philosophy with Christian doctrine, and treated Christ's grace as a license to sin.

In the world today, the Gnostic movement is still with us, and in many Churches today. They teach the licentiousness ideas that the Nicolaitans had, even the false idea that once in Christ we can sin no more, thus there is no more need to repent or ask forgiveness of Christ for future sin. So it's not unusual that our Lord Jesus would mention these Nicolaitans in His 1st Church Message, for it is very applicable to today's time as we approach the end of this world. The reason why this matter is so important today, is because it is a type philosophy that permits sin, and brings in a larger membership that will think they are saved, thus it is a favorite method of the prosperity preachers.

2. Smyrna - Jesus had no rebuke. Persecuted by the "synagogue of Satan", those who say they are Jews, but are not. The devil is to cast some of them in prison to be tried 10 days, a pointer to tribulation. These represent a Church of Christ's very elect.

The devil doesn't have to work hard against those who are already deceived into his hand. This is why he especially hates Christ's elect and works hard to try and destroy them.

3. Pergamos - a city in Asia Minor strong in the paganism of Baal. Antipas was martyred there. Followers of the doctrine of the Nicolaitans were also there. So here is a Christian Church claiming to be followers of Jesus, yet they included pagan Baal worshipers and 'free sin' followers (like the concept of 'free love', do what you want, law is dead doctrines of the Nicolaitans). Instead of driving those false worshipers out of the Church for not repenting and changing their lives to follow Jesus, they allowed them to stay in attendance.

Do we have these kind of things going on in some of today's Christian Churches? Yes. We are admonished by our Lord Jesus and His Apostles to live a holy life, not a life of sin. And allowing someone into the Church that we know is doing idol worship, or living in sin without being rebuked? Why should our Lord Jesus bless that kind of Church? Want your Church to be blessed? then get rid of the evil doers in it. Good to do a little pruning every once in a while, and especially in lands which are more loaded with followers of the devil.

4. Thyatira - had a Jezebel teaching in it, and she was teaching idolatry and fornication, i.e. the doctrines of Baal. She claimed to be a prophetess. The Jezebel pattern is from the Old Testament times of the prophet Elijah. King Ahab of northern Israel married Jezebel who was a Baal worshipper from Sidon. She had all of God's prophets killed except for Elijah, and sought his death.

With this Church example, it is pointing to a Christian Church who allows a woman to preach that claims to be a prophetess, but who teaches Baal doctrines also. The doctrines of Baal included sex orgy rituals as part of their religion. Because our Lord Jesus told others at Thyatira that did not have this doctrine were to hold fast to what they already had, and wait for His coming, it reveals the Baal practices likely were done behind closed doors among a certain portion of the Church members. Are you in a Church where some of the members hold secret meetings behind closed doors, practicing rituals? Don't laugh. This is serious business.

5. Sardis - they had a 'name' that they were a living Church, but Jesus said they were actually 'dead'. Must assume He meant like those He rebuked of the scribes and Pharisees, who were like beautiful whited sepulchres outside, but inside were full of dead men's bones (Matthew 23:27). Jesus warned them to remember how they had heard, to strengthen what remained, and to repent, lest He would come upon them 'as a thief', and they would not know what hour He would come upon them.

What doctrines in some Churches today prevent the Christian from understanding the events leading up all the way to Christ's 2nd coming on the last day of this world to gather His Church? We are supposed to know "the times and the seasons" leading up to the end when Jesus returns, like Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5. He told us there that the "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night". Our Lord Jesus specifically mentioned this matter of His coming "as a thief" upon the deceived to those at Sardis (Revelation 3:3).

If you need a stronger hint, here it is. Those "times and the seasons" are not... about a pre-tribulational rapture. That "day of the Lord" will only begin on the final last day of this present world, and it is what will burn man's works off this earth on that day (2 Peter 3:10). Some of these Sardis type Churches are even using men's books of the pre-trib rapture theory to teach their Sunday school classes instead of keeping to God's Word as written. They don't realize their Church is as 'dead' for heeding those things. So why would our Lord Jesus call these followers as being 'dead'? It's because the pre-trib rapture theory is a theory designed to lead the believer to fall away to worship the coming pseudo-Messiah that will appear first, prior to our Lord Jesus' return to destroy that false one. That false one is to work such a great deception with great signs and wonders upon the whole world, that even Christ's elect, IF it were possible, would also be deceived (Matthew 24:23-26).

6. Philadelphia - the key of David is mentioned to these. Jesus set an open door before them that no man can open nor shut. They had kept His Word and not denied His Name. They were persecuted by the "synagogue of Satan", i.e., those who say they are Jews, but do lie and are not. In final, Jesus said He will make those false Jews to come worship at their feet (future Millennium timing). Jesus had no rebuke for them.

All that points emphatically to another Church group of His very elect, those who cannot be deceived, and are sealed with God's seal. That is what that open door that no man can open or shut from them points to. Their being kept from the "hour of temptation" is about their being sealed for the end with God's seal against the deception that is to occur during the end at the great tribulation that Jesus warned. The locusts of Rev.9 are allowed to 'sting' only... those NOT sealed with God's seal. These are sealed with God's seal, another pointer to their being Christ's very elect. You want to understand what to prepare for and watch for? then study about the two Churches for the end that represent Christ's very elect, i.e., the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. And if you don't yet understand about the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" that Jesus mentioned to both of those Churches, then it's time to get on that and study. That matter begins in Genesis 3 and continues throughout God's Word.

7. Laodiceans - They weren't either cold nor hot. They were rich with goods. They thought they had need of nothing, but were wretched and naked, miserable, poor, and blind (all in the spiritual sense). In other words, their materiality is where most of their faith was placed. Jesus instead told them to buy of Him gold tried in the fire, meaning spiritual riches of the world to come that won't perish nor rust, nor stolen, etc., which are gotten through overcoming trials of this world.

Basically the idea of... material peace and safety. If everyone's material needs are fulfilled, one is fat and happy, then there's a tendency to not want to move. It feels good being comfortable and in a place where you have most of life's pleasures. You kind of don't want to upset that apple cart by sticking your neck out for Christ's work which may cause you to lose some of those material comforts. With the coming time of 'great tribulation' in our near future, having all your material needs is going to be one of the peace and safety themes pushed by the coming pseudo-Christ. Craft is to prosper in his hand, and by peace he will destroy (spiritually) many (Dan.8), causing them to believe he is God.

BTW I am not a pretribber

 

[Heart2Soul]

So still studying, probably take a year, but I just read in Rev 14 about the angel saying to the one on a white cloud thrust in his sickle for the time of harvest is at hand....then further down the sickle removes the grapes for the winepress and the wrath of God.
So basically, I am trying to tie in the purpose of the 7 Churches and what is the significance of them in Revelation .

 

[Davy]

BTW I am not a pretribber

I didn't think you were. My aim was not to point out any specific person on this forum, but just to go deeper about the importance of understanding our Lord Jesus' 7 Messages for the seven candlesticks, i.e., Churches, a pattern where each Message is still applicable to today's Churches, and all the way up to His return.

 

[Waiting on him]

So still studying, probably take a year, but I just read in Rev 14 about the angel saying to the one on a white cloud thrust in his sickle for the time of harvest is at hand....then further down the sickle removes the grapes for the winepress and the wrath of God.
So basically, I am trying to tie in the purpose of the 7 Churches and what is the significance of them in Revelation .

What are grapes and what do they grow on?

 

[Heart2Soul]

What are grapes and what do they grow on?

Fruit and vine

 

[Waiting on him]

Fruit and vine

Amen

 

[Waiting on him]

Amen

The dresser puts them in his wine press.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I didn't think you were. My aim was not to point out any specific person on this forum, but just to go deeper about the importance of understanding our Lord Jesus' 7 Messages for the seven candlesticks, i.e., Churches, a pattern where each Message is still applicable to today's Churches, and all the way up to His return.

Well this I do understand...but I think we can even determine that all 7 churches are now completed as far as judgment....except the 2....judgment first begins at the house of the Lord is how I perceive what this is all about.