First Earth Age.

[Miss Hepburn]

Can someone please answer my questions concerning this reincarnation belief?
This is important to me since Reincarnation goes against everything I have believed true in the Word of God, Yet we are told that Reincarnation is mentioned.

I wrote a paper on reincarnation in the Bible exactly 40 years ago.
It's all over in the Bible for all to see. This link notes most of the references I brought up.

You might enjoy this.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html

This section is titled Reincarnation and the Bible.

 

[jerryjohnson]

So we are angels.............. got it.

we are not "Recreated spirits" but born from above. .......... correct?

umm. I had thought that something major got messed up in the first earth age...............but no judgement at that time?
am I missing anything else......... this is completly new on how I was looking at the scriptures.
Be blessed and sorry if I seem dense......
Jesus Is Lord.

" I had thought that something major got messed up in the first earth age"

"Something major" is written in Ezekiel and some of the other major and minor prophets. Lucifer (satan) was one of two angels that sat guard of the mercy seat, the other was Michael. Lucifer wanted to take the place of God and sit on that seat. There was a war (see Rev 12 also), Michael and his troops (the faithful angels) defeated Lucifer and his troops (the unfaithful angels). These two groups do not account for all the angels by the way, only a small portion of them. Many of the others just sat on the sidelines watching, or didn't want to be involved, or (think of the many excuses men might use today, ie. "don't bother me I'm busy," "I need to go to a party," etc.) The angels that helped defeat satan are the elect and very elect in this earth age. They won the right to be justified because of what they did in the first. They come through the flesh in this age just like the rest but can be use by God to accomplish His plan, they are the Predestinated. Some of bad angel choose to not be born of woman and came to the earth in this age and seduced women, (Genesis 5., 6 or so) These are also the angels spoken of in Jude that left that are in chains. Revelation tells us they will be loosed again.

Every angel will come through this earth age, with the exception of satan or those mentioned in Jude, to be tested as to whether or not they will love God or choose satan.

Mike, this is a very simplified version of the story in my words, it is all in Scripture but we need to dig deep for some of it.

Back to my paper.

ADDED: There is NO Reincarnation in the Bible. Do NOT LISTEN to anyone that says there is.

 

[Brother Mike]

The angels that helped defeat satan are the elect and very elect in this earth age. They won the right to be justified because of what they did in the first. They come through the flesh in this age just like the rest but can be use by God to accomplish His plan, they are the Predestinated.

This is where you get that predestination Doctrine...............Things make a lot more sense looking back to other arugments.

So, there was not Angel spirits and man spirits........... all were spirits. Those that opposed Satan, became the Elect.

They might be some in flesh form today.

Every angel will come through this earth age, with the exception of satan or those mentioned in Jude, to be tested as to whether or not they will love God or choose satan.

Ok, we know that Satan blew it..........................I am having issues here with your statement. If every angels that obeys God comes through this earth age (I just assume you mean obtain a flesh body) Where does that put the rest of us (Angels) that help out with the Gospel stuff. Like the one that helped Paul with Information before His boat got smashed up? What about like, Michael the Archangel. did He come and go already to take his place as a mighty Angel?

so what about the (Us) the angels we have on God's side today? The ones that save you from stepping in front of a bus.

Also when someone accecpts Jesus as Lord, What changes? Is our spirit with God sent into that body to be with the soul? Explain the exact working of that..............

I know...... I am not trying to be slow, but this connects to tons of other topics we have not come eye to eye on...........

Thank you for your time, I know your working.............. Me, I am doing Laundry.......

Miss Hepburn

I had no idea someone could take the Bible and find scripture after scripture about reincarnation. That is truly amazing. It was pretty long, but lot's of scriptures were used.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[whirlwind]

So we are angels.............. got it.

we are not "Recreated spirits" but born from above. .......... correct?

Correct. We're the same soul/spirit we have always been but in this age we're encased in a flesh body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.​

There is a charming old tale that speaks of this. When a soul is sent to earth for their passage through this life, an angel presses his finger just above the lip of the baby to make the indention and says, "shhhh....don't tell what you know."

umm. I had thought that something major got messed up in the first earth age...............but no judgement at that time?

Satan was loved by God. He began to think he was greater than God and rebelled...taking many souls with him.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.​

The earth "became" without form and void. In Greek it was termed the katallbo or...the overthrow. God overthrew that age. Shook the earth, perhaps that is why is is now tilted on it's axis and water covered the earth...darkness. It is what you realized from 2 Peter. Not the flood of Noah but a flood way before that time. Everything that was flesh was destroyed. We find fossils of creatures from that age but not skeletal remains of man. Man wasn't flesh. We are spirit and as such our spirit bodies are incorruptible.

God didn't judge but allowed all of us to pass through this life to determine who we follow. Was Satan judged in that first age? I don't know but as he was already in his fallen state when we first see him in the garden....I think he was. He is a servant of God, fulfilling his role as tempter, deceiver, liar. The fallen angels, those that came to earth in this age, are already judged and condemned because they did so against His orders. They aren't yet killed for they have a job to do.

am I missing anything else......... this is completly new on how I was looking at the scriptures.

Be blessed and sorry if I seem dense......

Jesus Is Lord.

There are scriptures that tell of this time. Tell us when you're ready to absorb them. Sounds to me like you're at that point but I don't want to throw too much too fast.

 

[whirlwind]

This is where you get that predestination Doctrine...............Things make a lot more sense looking back to other arugments.

So, there was not Angel spirits and man spirits........... all were spirits. Those that opposed Satan, became the Elect.

They might be some in flesh form today.

Yes! There have been some through the ages that bring His word forward but they/we are born in these last days for a reason....

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.​

The chosen few of the many called are His firstfruits, His saints, His very elect. We are His witnesses. The "two witnesses" of Revelation are two groups of witnesses, not two entities and we are here now witnessing.

Ok, we know that Satan blew it..........................I am having issues here with your statement. If every angels that obeys God comes through this earth age (I just assume you mean obtain a flesh body) Where does that put the rest of us (Angels) that help out with the Gospel stuff. Like the one that helped Paul with Information before His boat got smashed up? What about like, Michael the Archangel. did He come and go already to take his place as a mighty Angel?

All have to be born in flesh except for the archangels. (I have no verification for that.) Angels are spirits and they are messengers so while in spirit form they live and do whatever they do in that realm. Then they are born in flesh and physically die. Then....back to their spiritual realm. The angels we're taught of in the Bible eat, drink, sit, walk, talk as do we but they are super-natural so have more capabilities than we have.

so what about the (Us) the angels we have on God's side today? The ones that save you from stepping in front of a bus.

They're here to protect the elect. They have the face of God on our behalf. Because we are elect He works in our lives. He guides, directs....puts us where He wants us to be to serve Him. You may not see them keep us from harm but, as you have written before....you know!

Also when someone accecpts Jesus as Lord, What changes? Is our spirit with God sent into that body to be with the soul? Explain the exact working of that..............

His Spirit indwells us. Our old man dies, is crucified, and we are changed.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.​

I know...... I am not trying to be slow, but this connects to tons of other topics we have not come eye to eye on...........

Thank you for your time, I know your working.............. Me, I am doing Laundry.......

 

[JarBreaker]

those "He did foreknow" in the previous age. They stood with Him at Satan's rebellion and stand with Him now.

This is powerful.


At the risk of starting up another merry-go-round, I have to wonder ... (whirlwind you know of this)


I joined this board because a random google search turned up an earlier post by whirlwind, positing that there is a spiritual application of the earth, the heavens and the seas ... most notably where it refers to THOSE of the earth, THOSE of the heavens and THOSE of the seas.

I can't help but see this concept play into a lot of what this thread entails.


I'm staying off the merry-go-round, i'll be over here grabbing some cotton candy.

 

[Brother Mike]

His Spirit indwells us. Our old man dies, is crucified, and we are changed.

Would that be the Old man "spirit we start with on earth? That would not make sense if we started with our spirit before accecpting Jesus would it.

So, do we start out with a spirit, or when we accpept Jesus, our spirit is sent into our body, making us alive.

Then once we accecpt Jesus, our spirit is sent to our body, and the Holy Spirit (God) comes also??

Sorry.......... this is new stuff here.


Jesus is Lord.

 

[jerryjohnson]

...
All have to be born in flesh except for the archangels. (I have no verification for that.) ...

ww, I agree with you except for the above statement.

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. "

We are told;
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This tells me all angels, even archangels, must come through this earth age if they are to enter the kingdom of heaven.

That statement is not popular with most of my friends on this board, but that is where I stand on this particular issue.

 

[01CobraVortech]

ww, I agree with you except for the above statement.

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. "

We are told;
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This tells me all angels, even archangels, must come through this earth age if they are to enter the kingdom of heaven.

That statement is not popular with most of my friends on this board, but that is where I stand on this particular issue.

This is a very interesting post. I never gave much thought about that until now. Makes a lot of sense. Prior to this, I just assumed that the angels that are currently in Heaven, never lived in the flesh.

So Jerry do you think that there are female angels that are part of the legion of angels that reside with God now?

 

[whirlwind]

This is a very interesting post. I never gave much thought about that until now. Makes a lot of sense. Prior to this, I just assumed that the angels that are currently in Heaven, never lived in the flesh.

So Jerry do you think that there are female angels that are part of the legion of angels that reside with God now?

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gensis 1:26-28 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


From the above He tells us your answer is....no. There is no male or female....we are one. In this flesh life we are to reproduce, to "be fruitful and multiply," so souls can be born into this life. So, the woman (womb-man) was taken from man and....babies are made. But, when we physically die we are as we were, both male and female in one body.

 

[whirlwind]

ww, I agree with you except for the above statement.

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. "

We are told;
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This tells me all angels, even archangels, must come through this earth age if they are to enter the kingdom of heaven.

That statement is not popular with most of my friends on this board, but that is where I stand on this particular issue.

Hi Jerry....good luck with your studies.

I'm a bit ambivalent on this...I just don't know. As I said I have no Biblical verification on the archangels (nor have I studied it). But in the quotes you provided Jesus is speaking about "man" needing to be born of water and Spirit. If the archangels were never man or to be man then would it apply to them?

 

[whirlwind]

Would that be the Old man "spirit we start with on earth? That would not make sense if we started with our spirit before accecpting Jesus would it.

So, do we start out with a spirit, or when we accpept Jesus, our spirit is sent into our body, making us alive.

Then once we accecpt Jesus, our spirit is sent to our body, and the Holy Spirit (God) comes also??

Sorry.......... this is new stuff here.


Jesus is Lord.

We all have a spirit but it becomes a "living spirit" when He "makes us alive" as He did Adam...

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

Yes, our "old man" is our carnal nature. The old us before Christ changed us into "another man."


Samuel said to Saul (and the Lord is saying to us through their example....)

1 Samuel 10:6-7 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man. And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.​

Many of us have received "signs." We were called when the Spirit of the Lord came upon us and we are now "another man." He dwells IN US, walks IN US. We are One body. We "shalt prophesy!" Not speak new things but the revelation of things already written as His Spirit reveals. God is with us and we "do as occasion" serves for He directs our lives. We are His servants. We are teachers or prophets or apostles. Teachers teach His written Word. Prophets and Apostles teach the spirit of the written Word.

 

[whirlwind]

This is powerful.


At the risk of starting up another merry-go-round, I have to wonder ... (whirlwind you know of this)


I joined this board because a random google search turned up an earlier post by whirlwind, positing that there is a spiritual application of the earth, the heavens and the seas ... most notably where it refers to THOSE of the earth, THOSE of the heavens and THOSE of the seas.

I can't help but see this concept play into a lot of what this thread entails.


I'm staying off the merry-go-round, i'll be over here grabbing some cotton candy.

Hi JarBreaker

It is powerful to understand this. It opens a great deal of understanding of what is written. It seems all of us that love the Lord and study His Word will have disagreements on many points. Perhaps that is His plan to keep us growing, talking together and maturing. But, there are several of the deeper truths, the mysteries, that I believe are the "keys" to understanding....

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Revelation 1:18 I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.​

He that liveth is The Word. In the Word we have the keys to unlock the powerful mysteries. They aren't given to everyone so when something is revealed it can be earth shaking to us individually. These revelations, I believe, are the earthquakes He speaks of in the end times, the shaking of the bones in the valley of death as His One Body comes together.....

Ezekiel 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

Acts 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.​

We are of the earth, made of earth. He shakes us awake when the earth quakes and the door to our prison of the world is flung open. Our bands are loosed but we must take them off and we must walk out of the prison!

 

[Brother Mike]

We all have a spirit but it becomes a "living spirit" when He "makes us alive" as He did Adam...


Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ok...................................... So before we knew Jesus or confessed Jesus as Lord. We were dead angels. When we make Jesus Lord, then he gives our Angel (sprit) life............ So, we start out as dead angels, which mean we do start with a spirit.

This makes more sense, but I was looking at James where it said the spirit witout the body is dead. So, I was thinking that we start out with no spirit and dead to God. With what you have told me. I was trying to see how the other scriptures fit into to this since we are really angels.

so is my statement above correct in thinking............

thank you for all the help, putting this together.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Brother Mike,
Referring to that question of yours I came acros this Youtube disussion - about 2 minutes in they
talk about Christianity and the notion of Reincarnation.
You will probably find it interesting - they also touch upon the exact verses I wrote my paper on these 40 years ago.
I got a great grade as I recall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbE1MJl_tIw&NR=1

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Miss Hepburn!


However, passing off Reincarnation as a truth to the body of Christ may present some obstacles that would be very hard to overcome. I know in my circles, lead balloon's would fly better than this........

I have to look at all these wonderful lessons I learn here on the forums and ask myself what is teachable, and what would not be accepted. Wisdom is the principle thing.

Thank you for taking the time of finding this video.

God Bless.

Mike.

 

[whirlwind]

Ok...................................... So before we knew Jesus or confessed Jesus as Lord. We were dead angels. When we make Jesus Lord, then he gives our Angel (sprit) life............ So, we start out as dead angels, which mean we do start with a spirit.

This makes more sense, but I was looking at James where it said the spirit witout the body is dead. So, I was thinking that we start out with no spirit and dead to God. With what you have told me. I was trying to see how the other scriptures fit into to this since we are really angels.

so is my statement above correct in thinking............

thank you for all the help, putting this together.

Jesus Is Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.​

The spiritual body is in us, in our natural body. Once the natural body is discarded to return to dust our spiritual body steps out. Natural body = man. Spirit body = angel. That spiritual body may be a living or a dead spiritual body. If spiritually dead, it functions but doesn't have eternal life.


So, to answer your question. We weren't "dead angels" so much as spiritually dead men for our spirit hadn't yet been quickened. The spirit inside us (our angelic being) is incorruptible but not immortal, not spiritually alive. Therefore....

1 Corinthians 15:52-54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.​

The dead...the spiritually dead...are raised in their incorruptible bodies. Same spiritual body they have always had. All corruptible flesh bodies will be incorruptible spirit bodies. But, even though the spiritually dead are incorruptible...they are NOT yet immortal. They are not of the "first resurrection," and are still subject to the "second death." [Rev.20] Those of us that are spiritually living (before our physical death) are of the first resurrection so we will not only be incorruptible but....immortal.

Where you wrote, " but I was looking at James where it said the spirit without the body is dead. So, I was thinking that we start out with no spirit and dead to God," to me means.....our physical body without His Spirit is spiritually dead. We have a spirit but it doesn't live eternally.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Whirlwind..............

I had all the puzzle to this first Earth Age, When Christina place us in that first earth age, it added to the Puzzle I thought I had completed.

Now I understand more post I have read in the past from certain members, and now see their position.

sorry if I seemed "Dumb" And thank you for sticking with me on this............ It is a whole new concept to me.

God bless you.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[jerryjohnson]

Hi Jerry....good luck with your studies.

I'm a bit ambivalent on this...I just don't know. As I said I have no Biblical verification on the archangels (nor have I studied it). But in the quotes you provided Jesus is speaking about "man" needing to be born of water and Spirit. If the archangels were never man or to be man then would it apply to them?

Angels and archangels are just different ranks of the same entity. God came through the flesh, archangels are not better than God. I think the verses in John are clear.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[whirlwind]

Angels and archangels are just different ranks of the same entity. God came through the flesh, archangels are not better than God. I think the verses in John are clear.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It isn't that the arch angels are "better than God" but that they couldn't have accomplished the purpose for which He came.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.​

I don't know yet. Perhaps the archangels, unlike angels, needn't be proven. They didn't have to pass through this flesh life so where it is written..."he cannot enter into the kingdom of God," doesn't apply to them as they are already of the kingdom of God. They don't need to "enter."