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First Earth Age.

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Christina, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. 0bed

    0bed New Member

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    Done that. This is Genesis and 'void' is bôhû, bo'-hoo (Strong number H922) From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

    Show me where it says 'void' (H922) in Isaiah like you said it does.

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning 7225 God 430 created 1254 853 the heaven 8064 and 853 the earth 776. And the earth 776 was 1961 without form 8414, and void 922; and darkness 2822 [was] upon the face 6440 of the deep 8415. And the Spirit 7307 of God 430 moved 7363 upon 5921 the face 6440 of the waters 4325.

    Isa 45:18 For thus saith 559 the LORD 3068 that created 1254 the heavens 8064; God 430 himself that formed 3335 the earth 776 and made 6213 it; he hath established 3559 it, he created 1254 it not in vain 8414, he formed 3335 it to be inhabited 3427 : I [am] the LORD 3068; and [there is] none else.
     
  2. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Was...1961, to become........


    Irish
     
  3. 0bed

    0bed New Member

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    If that is intended for me it has gone right over my head.
     
  4. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    Sorry! Look at at the word "was". It is word 1961 in Hebrew and is actually became,...then you go to void.


    Irish
     
  5. 0bed

    0bed New Member

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    Apparently 1961 means to exist or to become

    See Strong for example, also in other places. 1961

    A primitive root (compare hava'); to exist, i.e. Be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary) -- beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.

    see HEBREW hava'

    http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/1961.htm

    This gives us either

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth [existed] without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth [came] without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    I will pass on this as I don't feel it is worth arguing about unless it becomes important in the light of scientific discovery. :)
     
  6. lkwikum

    lkwikum New Member

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    this is the first earth. there will be a second. end of story. anything else is just adding to scripture, which we are warned not to do. Revelation talks of the first earth being dstroyed and the second earth coming. simply put, why do you need to add another one? it is unscriptural, and just nonsense. the Lord created evrything in 6 days. the scripture is clear, it is just whether you believe what it says.

    coal can form very quickly at high temp and pressure



     
  7. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    lkwikum
    You need to learn how to read!
     
  8. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    Sometimes when I see the peasants trying to interpret Genesis I understand why the early church kept the one bible they owned chained to the pulpit so it would not fall into the wrong hands.
     
    Miss Hepburn likes this.
  9. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    And who are you calling a peasant?
     
  10. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    I endorse your comment about the 2 earths mentioned in revelation. It does not leave room for some other imagined popular additional earth age. I wish everybody would pay attention to all the confirming examples throughout the bible that support the literal genesis record.

    I also wish they would read where it says a day of creation is a morning and evening .... not some imaginary long period of time.

    Not to mention our 7th day sabbath is modeled on Gods 6 days of creation with rest on the 7th.

    All of nature has to be in place to function. You cannot spread it out over long periods of creation. Evolutionists run into that snag continually.

    There are still men living in caves today. There are still some tribes with an IQ of a Neanderthal. Another previous race of cave men is not required to fill in any imaginary gaps. Neanderthal cave men are still here today. Some of them even think they are bible scholars.
     
  11. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    I could really care less what people think really happened in Genesis. I happen to believe creation was about 6000 years ago because science will allow it and the bible indicates it. But that is not the point I want to make.

    What I like to do is make people stop and think about who or what influences them. What makes you believe what you believe? How reliable is your information? Can it be proven? Here is a short example to stir your thinking.

    6000 years is actually a very long time in human terms. But we have a hard time accepting that in modern day because someone came along and said the universe has been here for billions of years and the earth for millions of years. All of a sudden 6000 years looks laughable right?

    We have been suckered and we do not always realize it. 6000 years is still a very long time for mankind to be around until the non-creationist billion year fairy tale was planted in our minds.

    Now we deny what we call the word of God in order to appease the majority teaching around us. Besides we do not want to be laughed at right?

    The bible is either true or it is not. We cannot pick and choose parts of it. If it is indeed true it should be a tremendous and powerful basis in our life. Fiction never can be. We claim to be ready to handle the Antichrist , the tribulation and everything else , but we run and hide if someone laughs at our young earth claims.

    Maybe we are not as tough as we think and maybe we do not believe the bible is as accurate as we claim. Be careful what influences your thinking. Fiction belongs to the world. Facts belong to us. Do not confuse the two. Do not try to join the two.
     
  12. Brian

    Brian New Member

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    Hello.
    I have enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks original poster, and defenders.
    There was a prior earth age.
    The earth age we are in is its eighth age itself.
    Mankind in gen1 was the neanderthal. They was the image and likeness of God ... The GODHEAD can NOT sin, not even a possibility ... Just like songbirds can not sin.
    The neanderthal was created a pair and ate wild foods including meat. the bible and firmament says this.
    Adam was formed from dirt and named the animals which denotes a strong friendship towards, and didn't even know how to cover themselves with animal skin, the Lord made the bloodshed for them, to give them clothing...eve come from Adams rib...they sinned a sin unto death...not a possibility for the image and likeness of the GODHEAD.
    Cain was cast away to dwell in the earth and was cursed so the land would not yield forth its yield. Cro-magnon man was found to exist only about the time of humans until the flood. And they was found with a religious system and other symbolisms of sin. The bible says it and so does firmament/fossil records.

    The Lord gave me revelation on the time of each day in creation ... Each day is called in science "suns galactic rotation period" although the Lord revealed this to me a different way, I have walked to find the scientific terms, because I am uneducated in mans system.

    The garden of eden was created after the 7th day rest.

    From fall of Lucifer till now was roughly 2 billion years ...
     
  13. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    BRIAN, YOU SAY: Mankind in gen1 was the neanderthal. They was the image and likeness of God ... The GODHEAD can NOT sin, not even a possibility ... Just like songbirds can not sin.
    The neanderthal was created a pair and ate wild foods including meat. the bible and firmament says this.

    PLEASE QUOTE PRECISE SCRIPTURE REFERENCES THAT SAY THAT
     
  14. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    For the two earth/heaven theorists out there, I'm just asking an honest question.

    How do you interpret II Corinthians 12:2?

    What is the third heaven? Are levels now ascribed to heaven or what?
     
  15. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    Sorry but the Neanderthal connection to the human race doesn't hold water from a scientific standpoint. Scientists have claimed for some time to have successfully extracted mitochondrial DNA from a Neanderthal bone believed to be 30,000 to 100,000 years old. And they have compared a short sequence of it to mitochondrial DNA from modern humans, including Africans, Europeans, Asians, Native Americans, Australians, and Pacific Islanders. The researchers have stated that the high degree of variation between the Neanderthal DNA and the DNA of modern humans suggests that Neanderthals were not ancestral to modern humans. These conclusions are interesting since there is fossil evidence indicating the two groups coexisted in close proximity in Europe as recently as 30,000 years ago and that an evolutionary split occurred some half million years before modern humans first came on the scene.

    It sure looks like the sudden and mysterious disappearance of Neanderthals around 30,000 years ago would presumably be due not to a merging of the two human groups through interbreeding but more likely to some catastrophic event. I think that's where the Great Flood fits in. Modern DNA techniques have proven that we did not come from the "Neanderthals." This idea was pushed into the evolutionary model by none other than the greatest opponents of the Bible, the Evolutionists. When you examine more closely the implication of the DNA testing, then you have an incredibly strong argument for the Neanderthal being a type of Nephilim.
     
  16. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger New Member

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    Pariah wrote
    Nothing has been created before as the King James has it written because the earth was without form first so one cannot say that there was something there if it was without form first and thus how can it become empty when it simply stated that the earth was without form and void as meaning empty in the context. Are you aware of the satanic belief that would utilize that First Earth Age teaching as supportive to their belief that God is evil and Satan is good?

    Genesis I
    One - In the Beginning Created God, the Heavens, and the Earth.
    Aleph - Berashith Berah Elohim Ath Ha-Shamaim Vath Ha-Aretz.

    The "meaning" of Genesis 1:1 is to be found at a deeper level of the text. The Torah according to Jewish Rabbi's is said to be written on 4 different and meaningful levels. The first word of Genesis is B'reshith. The first letter is Bet and is translated (as in, or with). Beth, meaning house or dwelling place is an archetypical represention of the distinction between inside and outside. Reshit is usually identified with the root Resh, meaning 1st, chief or beginning of. Thus B'reshith is commonly translated as "In the beginning." So we can see this inside-outside relationship repeated in the rest of Genesis 1:1. The "heavens" surround the "earth." Much like Beth surrounds Resh. Reshith can also be seen to derive from the root Reshet which designates a woven net or network. An examination of the letter sequences in Genesis 1:1 demonstrates that the letters are all strictly arranged in a woven order. The order of the letters and words in Genesis 1:1 are explicitly defined. So ends the 1st verse of Genesis. In Hebrew, letters of the words are also understood as numbers.

    Dr Ivan Panin born in December of 1855 was as a young man an active nihilist who participated in plots against the Czar. He was a mathematical genius whowas exiled from Russia, then after spending a number of years studying in Germany, he arrived in the US, where he became an outstanding lecturer on literary criticism. Panin was known as a firm agnostic, SO WELL KNOWN THAT WHEN HE ABANDONED AGNOSTISM FOR CHRISTIANITY, NEWSPAPERS CARRIED HEADLINES OF HIS CONVERSION! In 1890 Dr Panin made the discovery of the mathematical structures underlining The Scriptures. Panin carefully examining the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:1 discovering an incredible phenomenon of a multiples of 7. Panin died as a Harvard teacher, scholar and a proud citizen of the USA in 1942.

    Ivan Panin discovered literally thousands of mathematical patterns underlying The Scriptures before his death. Panin's book, The Inspiration of the Scriptures Scientifically Demonstrated discusses these phenomena extensively. Others have examined other literature in an attempt to duplicate his findings, to no avail. Panin's work is highly detailed and exhaustive. These few selected excerpts will be more than enough to convince the honest inquirer that the Bible is all it claims to be - the Holy, inspired, infallible Word of God. Panin supplied a representative of the Nobel Research Foundation with over 43,000 pages of his studies accompanied by his statement that this was his evidence that the Bible was the Word of God. Their reply was - "As far as our investigation has proceeded we find the evidence over-whelmingly in favor of such a statement."

    When professors on the mathematics faculty at Harvard University were presented with this biblical phenomenon they naturally attempted to disprove its significance as a proof of divine authorship. However, after valiant efforts these professors were unable to duplicate this incredible mathematical phenomenon. The Harvard scientists used the English language and artificially assigned numeric values to the English alphabet. They had a potential vocabulary of over 400,000 available English words to choose from to construct a sentence about any topic they chose. Compare this to the limitations of word choices in the biblical Hebrew language which has only 4500 available word choices that the writers of the Old Testament could use. Despite their advanced mathematical abilities and access to computers the mathematicians were unable to come close to incorporating 30 mathematical multiples of 7 as found in the Hebrew words of Genesis 1:1.

    He challenged 9 noted rationalists and Bible critics through the New York Sun to publicly refute or give explanation for a few of his presented facts other than the obvious; that the Word of God was the product of a Divine Mastermind above all possibility of human construction, carrying within itself a self-checking and protecting factor to ensure against additions and subtractions to its text in the original languages. Four made lame excuses; the rest were silent. He issued a challenge throughout leading newspapers of the world to offer a natural explanation or refute the facts; not a single person has ever been able to do so.

    The Bible's first verse comprises 7 Hebrew words formed from a total of 28 letters. Seven being the "NUMBER OF COMPLETENESS" is the most often found of a mathematical series of numbers and types which bind scripture together. The very first verse of the Bible, contains over 30 different combinations of seven. This verse has seven Hebrew words having a total of 28 letters 4 x 7. The numeric value of the three nouns "God", "heaven" and "earth" have together 14 letters, totaling the word number value of 777. Anytime a number in triplicate value is found within the Sacred Text, it expresses completeness and final, ultimate or total meaning. Here are a few of the 30 some examples in Gen 1:1, of which I've given 3 already.

    4. The sentence divides into two equal parts each containing 14 letters
    5. The last four Hebrew words "the heavens and the earth" have 14 letters (7x2).
    7. The numeric value of the verb, created, is 203, or 7 X 29.
    8. The middle word (2 letters) and the one before it (5 letters) have 7 letters.
    9. The middle word and the one after it have together 7 letters.
    10. The fourth and fifth words have 7 letters
    11. The sixth and seventh words have 7 letters
    12. The numeric value of the first and last letters of the first half is 42, (7x6).
    13. The number of letters in the four remaining words is also 14 (7x2 = 14)
    14. The numeric value of the first and last letters of the second half is 91, (7x13).
    15. The Hebrew numeric value of the first, middle and last letters is 133 (7x19).
    16. The numeric value of the 1st and last letters of all 7 words is 1393 (7x199).
    17. The 1st and last letters of all words, numeric value is 1,292, (7x199).
    18. The 1st and last letters of the first and last words is 497, or 7 x 71.
    19. The sum of the words 6 and 7 is 703, (19x37).

    The 7 Hebrew words of the Bible's first verse, Genesis 1:1 in word order corresponding to their numerical values are respectively, 913, 203, 86, 401, 395, 407, and 296. The sum of these numbers is 2701, or 37x73. The factors of this sum are both prime numbers which further relates to 2701. 2701 is a triangular number, meaning it may naturally be resolved into the shape of an equilateral triangle. It is, in fact, the 73rd triangular number, meaning it is the sum of all the integers up to and including 73 (1+2+3...+73 = 2701). , being very important mathematically and geometrically.

    Genesis 1:1 also reveals a remarkably accurate approximation of the The Constant PI. The Constant E of Euler's formula, that occurs naturally where a quantity increases at a rate proportional to its value. The Constant A which measures the strength with which subatomic particles interact with one another and with light: called the Atomic coupling constant. The Theorem of Pythagoras, etc ... ecetera.

    More remarkable is the fact that, numerics fix the individual letters so that they cannot be changed. Hebrew is called a synthetic language, that is, the meaning expressed is indicated largely by the use of prefixes and suffixes. And in many cases the changing of a prefix completely reverses the meaning of the whole sentence. It is therefore important that the first and last letters of the words should be protected against alteration.

    So what does all of this amount to? The fact that Genesis 1:1 defines a set of relations that really do describe creation, a complete creation!! Not just a physical theory described by a narrative, but as an unfolding set of universal mathematicial, topological and geometrically relationships.

    Genesis I
    Two - And the earth was (became, came to pass) without form, and void (a waste and a desolation); and darkness (obscure dark place) was upon the face (in front of, on the surface of) of the deep (abyss, grave, sea - also meaning peoples). And the Spirit (wind, breath, mind) of God (Elohim) moved (shake, move, hover) upon the face (in front of, on the surface of) of the waters (water - of danger, violence, transitory things).

    Beth - Vath Ha-Aretz Hayah Toho Va Boho; Khoshek Paniym Tehhome. Ruwach Elohiym al Paniym Mayhim.

    Then God begins the recreative process which according to Hebrew calendars days began at sunset though night and till the end of the next day beginning at sunset the next day. This DAY, not The Day has no numeral, ordinal, or cardinal qualifiers to limit it to a 24 hour period. And refers to a period of time, that has a beginning and an end.

    What I'm basically saying is the earth became without form and void or a waste and a desolation, called The Katabole or Overthrow in the NT. So much more could be said! Gen 1:1 relates directly to Rev 21 and on, as a new heaven and earth. And Gen 1:2 and Rev 20 basically relate to each other directly as to Satan Fall. I'll just leave it as that, that the Heavens and Earth were COMPLETE, LACKING NOTHING!! Which was the 1st aeon, age, earth, ha'eretz; Not to be confused with dispensations of time in this 2nd earth age, which is now of grace. (2 Pet 3) I've talked to much already and haven't even touched the surface of just verse 1, let alone 2.

    Heres a just few of the interesting references I used:
    Bullingers Companion Bible
    JPS 1917 Masoretic Bible
    http://www.wordworx.co.nz/panin.html
    http://homepage.virg...vernon.jenkins/
    http://members.home....ijn/indexEN.htm

    Genesis 1:1 Clearly states the Heaven & the Earth that God Created was Totally Complete in its formation. Whereas Genesis 1:2 suggests that it became null & void or a waste & desolation!

    CREATION VERSUS EVOLUTION
    This Is Appendix 5 From The Companion Bible.


    The Introduction to Genesis (and to the whole Bible) Genesis 1:1-2:3, ascribes everything to the living God, creating, making, acting, moving, and speaking. There is no room for evolution without a flat denial of Divine revelation. One must be true, the other false. All God's works were pronounced "good" seven times (see Appendix 10), videlicet: Genesis 1:4,10,12,18,21,25,31. They are "great," Psalm 111:2. Revelation 15:3. They are "wondrous," Job 37:14. They are "perfect," Deuteronomy 32:4.

    Man starts from nothing. He begins in helplessness, ignorance, and inexperience. All his workstherefore, proceed on the principle of evolution. This principle is seen only in human affairs : from the hut to the palace ; from the canoe to the ocean liner ; from the spade and ploughshare to machines for drilling, reaping, and binding, etc. But the birds build their nests to-day as at the beginning. The moment we pass the boundary line, and enter the Divine sphere, no trace or vestige of evolution is seen. There is growth and development within, but no passing, change, or evolution out from one into another. On the other hand, all God's works are perfect.

    In the Introduction to Genesis (chapter 1:1-2:3) fortysix times everything is ascribed to direct acts and volitions on the part of God as the Creator (see Appendix 4. I.) :-

    Evolution is only one of several theories invented to explain the phenomena of created things. It is admitted by all scientists that no on of these theories covers all the ground ; and the greatest claim made for Evolution, or Darwinism, is that "it covers more ground than any of the others."

    The Word of God claims to cover all the ground : and the only way in which this claim is met, is by a denial of the inspiration of the Scriptures, in order to weaken it. This is the special work undertaken by so-called "Higher Criticism", which bases its conclusions on human assumptions and reasoning, instead of on the documentary evidence of manuscripts, as Textual Criticism does.


    THE SO-CALLED "CREATION TABLETS"
    This Is Appendix 8 From The Companion Bible.

    The Cosmogony of Genesis is in flat contradiction to that of the so-called "Creation Tablets," preserved in an epic poem in honour of Merodach, the patron god of Babylon. If Genesis looks back to Creation, it is to put on record the profound contrast between them, and to give, instead of the corruption of primitive truth, which had been handed down by tradition, the Divine account by Him Who created all things, by the hand and pen of Moses.

    The word "without form" (Hebrew tohu) is used of a subsequent event which, we know not how long after the Creation, befell the primitive creation of Genesis 1:1. It occurs in Genesis 1:2. Deuteronomy 32:10. 1Samuel 12:21 (twice). Job 6:18; 12:24; 26:7. Psalm 107:40. Isaiah 24:10; 29:21; 34:11; 40:17,23; 41:29; 44:9; 45:18,19; 49:4; 59:4. Jeremiah 4:23. The Hebrew bohu, rendered "void", means desolate, and occurs in Genesis 1:2. Isaiah 34:11. Jeremiah 4:23. The two words together occur in Genesis 1:2. Isaiah 34:11. Jeremiah 4:23.

    1. The Tablets begin with chaos.
    The Bible with perfection (Genesis 1:1).
    2. The Tablets make the heveanly bodies to be gods.
    Genesis makes them created matter.
    3. The Tablets are all polytheistic mythology.
    Genesis is monotheistic truth.
    4. The Tablets make all the work of a craftsman.
    In Genesis, God speaks, and it is done.
    5. In the Tablets we meet everywhere with the puerilities of a grotesque superstition.
    In Genesis we find the grand and solemn realities of righteousness and holiness.


    The Word "Day" in Genesis 1.
    This Is Appendix 11 From The Companion Bible.


    The word "day", when used without any limiting words, may refer to a long or prolonged period: as, the "day of grace", the "day of visitation", the "day of salvation", the "day of judgment", the "day of the Lord", "man's day", etc. But when the word "day" is used with a numeral (cardinal or ordinal), as one, two, three, etc., or first, second, third, etc., "evening and morning" (Genesis 1), or the "seventh day" (Exodus 20:9, 11, etc.), it is defined, limited, and restricted to an ordinary day of twenty-four hours.

    The word "day" is never used for a year. Sometimes a corresponding number of days is used for a corresponding number of years, but in that case it is always expressly stated to be so used; as in Numbers 14:33, 34. But, even in these cases, the word "day" means a day, and the word "year" means a year. It is not said that a day means a year; but the number of forty years is said to be "after the number of days in which ye searched the land, even forty days".

    It is the same in Ezekiel 4:5, where the years of Israel's iniquity were laid on Ezekiel "according to the number of days". In this case also, the word "days" means days, and the word "years" means years.
     
  17. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    Hello,

    I haven't read the entire thread, only some of them. At any rate, I just wanted to say that the Bible is not a science book, and it is not meant to be read as a science book. In the Bible, there are actually two creation stories. In Genesis Chapter 1, man was created on the 6th day (Genesis 1:26-31). In the first chapter of Genesis, man was created last. But in Genesis Chapter 2, man was created on the first day before the animals and plants (Genesis 2:5-9). In Chapter 2, the plants and animals were created last. Therefore, the Creation story is not meant to be taken literally and it was never meant to be read as a science book. Genesis Chapter 1 and 2 were written to tell man some important lessons about God.

    The lesson learned in Chapter 1 is that God is the Creator of everything. How long it took Him to create the entire universe including the dinosaurs is irrelevant. What is relevant is that He created all things visible and invisible. The number 7 days is simply put there to teach the Israelites about the Sabbath. The Jewish Sabbath is connected to creation (Ex. 20:10-11). The lesson taught in Genesis Chapter 2 shows that of all His creation, mankind is His greatest because God created the plants and animlas for man. He did not create man for the plants and animals. Chapter 2 also speaks about the marriage between man and woman and in God's eyes man and woman are equal despite that the woman was created smaller.

    God is not interested in teaching us about science because man can find out about the world using the knowledgee and talents that God gave him. This is why we have a mind to think. We can conclude that one plus one is equal to two, and we can discover that the earth revolves around the sun. God is more interested in redeeming man's soul and in saving him. God is also interested is allowing man to know who He is so man can have fellowship with Him.

    In Christ,
    Selene
     
  18. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Selene, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Isn't this a reprint of a post you posted in another forum? Why post it twice
     
  19. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    Hi Jerry,

    The other one was off-topic. The thread was about Judas, but it got off-topic and I responded to the off-topic posts. This post belonged here. And by the way, what do you mean that I have no idea what I'm talking about? It's there in Scripture. In Genesis Chapter 1, man was created on the 6th day. But in Genesis Chapter 2, man was created on the 1st day before the plants and animals. I even cited the biblical scripture.


    In Christ,
    Selene
     
  20. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

    I read it that the earth was finished, then we are given the account of how God created man.

    Christina:
    I have scripture that God forknew before the Womb, Wisdom before the World, Jesus and good works that God ordained before.

    I want the scripture that places mans spirit on earth before Adam, I want the scripture that places "EVERY" man's spirit on earth before Adam, and not just known before birth.

    What Christiana wants us to believe in is a past life, then we are reincarnated into a flesh body. Man is appointed to die once then Judgment. There is a time to live and a time to die.

    Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    So, man escapes this Judgment but the Angels do not? NO, we are reincarnated just like some Eastern religions believe and given another chance??

    Nobody here is that gullible. At least I am not.


    I Want the Scriptures!!!!!

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
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