Why do we need priests?

[amadeus]

I thought we covered this already...

They are very much alive!

Or do you not believe:

Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live.

and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"


Peace be with you!

Also while we are there let us read this as well:

"But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Matt 22:31-32

 

[amadeus]

Everyone here seems hard pressed to give me a single scripture instructing us to pray TO anyone BUT Jesus who then, being our only mediator will bring our requests to God Himself.

The point is NOT that others gone from us are not alive, but why should we pray to others to ask them to do what we ourselves should be able to do. Sometimes when we are down, perhaps we need the prayers of other people because we simply cannot, but when we are walking with God ourselves then...

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit" James 5:16-18

Therefore we certainly should pray for other people and we should covet the prayers of others when our ability to pray seems to be missing the mark.

Can anyone be a "righteous man"?

 

[Giuliano]

Because they are dead!

What about this:

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I read that with great gladness since I see the vengeance they receive as being the salvation of many others. They did not die in vain.

 

[Pearl]

We have a wondrous and glorious God who hears the prayers of His people.

Absolutely we do. So what I don't understand is why people need or want to pray to other people who are no longer living in this world but are essentially dead albeit they may or may not be living spiritually in heaven.

 

[Pearl]

What about this:

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I read that with great gladness since I see the vengeance they receive as being the salvation of many others. They did not die in vain.

Don't see what that has to do with the discussion. Why do people pray to other people who have 'passed' when they can pray directly to God?

 

[Giuliano]

Can anyone be a "righteous man"?

I think people can be reckoned as rightous. If someone has lots of good deeds and only a few bad ones, I think he has more influence with Heaven than someone with more evil deeds and only a few good ones.

I think if we are to judged by our deeds, someone with lots of good deeds can ask for some of his rewards now in this life. He can also ask on behalf of others. Thus Israel was told they would be getting the Land of Promise not for anything they had done but because of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

What was the "virtue" that Jesus had that could heal others?

 

[Giuliano]

Don't see what that has to do with the discussion. Why do people pray to other people who have 'passed' when they can pray directly to God?

It shows that the prayers of "the dead" are being answered.

People are not "praying to" other people the way people pray to God. They are asking the saints in Heaven to pray for them.

Why? Sometimes we may not deserve what we ask for. Do you think Jesus would have turned the water into wine at Cana if it had been someone other than his mother asking? I don't think he would have. He was reluctant to do it, and in a way the people who planned that wedding didn't deserve his help; but his mother was moved by compassion and she cared, so Jesus then cared too.

 

[Pearl]

They are asking the saints in Heaven to pray for them.

I don't believe those who have passed can even hear us. Why don't people ask the living to pray for them?

 

[Giuliano]

I don't believe those who have passed can even hear us. Why don't people ask the living to pray for them?

Experience tells me otherwise. I do not go about trying to find "the dead" to talk to; but I have had experiences meeting some of them when they showed up. I've also met some Catholic saints when they showed up. Those are personal experiences so I don't talk about them much.

I also understand that your experience is different from mine; and that's okay with me. I don't expect others to believe me just because of what I say; but I am convinced by what I have seen.

 

[Nancy]

Don't see what that has to do with the discussion. Why do people pray to other people who have 'passed' when they can pray directly to God?

Hi Pat, I think this has gone over heads or just something some will not let go of? Stuff like this is so simple to understand yet...some just hang onto praying to those who have passed, I don't get it...when we can go "boldly" to the throne of God, WHY would anybody ever pray TO a saint who is no longer here, on Earth. Boggles the mind.
xo

 

[Nancy]

The point is NOT that others gone from us are not alive, but why should we pray to others to ask them to do what we ourselves should be able to do. Sometimes when we are down, perhaps we need the prayers of other people because we simply cannot, but when we are walking with God ourselves then...

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit" James 5:16-18

Therefore we certainly should pray for other people and we should covet the prayers of others when our ability to pray seems to be missing the mark.

Can anyone be a "righteous man"?

Oh definitely we are to always pray for one another! And, I sure do covet the prayers of others, more than anything. When have no words:
"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans." Romans 8:26
This is something to be so grateful for, there are many times my mind is overwhelmed with all of the prayers needed for friends, neighbors, loved ones...and then, other times the words run smooth as ever.
In His Name,
nancy

 

[Pearl]

Hi Pat, I think this has gone over heads or just something some will not let go of? Stuff like this is so simple to understand yet...some just hang onto praying to those who have passed, I don't get it...when we can go "boldly" to the throne of God, WHY would anybody ever pray TO a saint who is no longer here, on Earth. Boggles the mind.
xo

I think it's just Catholics that teach this doctrine so no wonder I can't understand it.

 

[Giuliano]

I think it's just Catholics that teach this doctrine so no wonder I can't understand it.

The Orthodox Church does. I'm pretty sure the Copts, another very old church, does. Some Jews do too.

 

[Nancy]

Also while we are there let us read this as well:

"But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Matt 22:31-32

Hi John!
From what I have read in Ecc. 9, we all have the same destiny, both good and evil. Yes, we will die physically but we will all live somewhere in eternity...whether it be heaven or hell with the un-righteous and Satan and his demons and the beast or...just, poof - gone as in at least one definition simply means to perish...not settled on the hell thing yet, lol.

Ecclesiastes 9:1-6

9
1 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God’s hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them. 2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.
As it is with the good,
so with the sinful;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them.
3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live and afterward they join the dead.
4 Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun."

 

[Pearl]

The Orthodox Church does. I'm pretty sure the Copts, another very old church, does. Some Jews do too.

Do Messianic Jews teach it too?

 

[Nancy]

I think it's just Catholics that teach this doctrine so no wonder I can't understand it.

Yes, pretty much. I was raised Catholic and to be honest, all those statues scared me as a girl.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think it's just Catholics that teach this doctrine so no wonder I can't understand it.

It would be more accurate to state that Protestants are noteworthy for their *lack* of some beliefs in regards to living mortal and dead mortals interaction. Pretty much very other group has some type of belief in that regard. None of which are that any dead mortal takes Christ's divine role.

But I would agree that it's totally in your right to not understand or practice any of these beliefs (or any other belief too).

 

[Pearl]

It would be more accurate to state that Protestants are noteworthy for their *lack* of some beliefs in regards to living mortal and dead mortals interaction. Pretty much very other group has some type of belief in that regard. None of which are that any dead mortal takes Christ's divine role.

But I would agree that it's totally in your right to not understand or practice any of these beliefs (or any other belief too).

I have never found anything in the bible to support some of the more extreme teachings of the Catholic church. I think a lot of it is just based on somewhat tenuous theories. But Catholics seem to prefer to believe unquestionably them rather than look further into the matter.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I have never found anything in the bible to support some of the more extreme teachings of the Catholic church.

Sola scriptura is an idea unique to some Protestant denominations. And one could equally argue the "there's nothing in the Bible against it" case too.

But Catholics seem to prefer to believe unquestionably them rather than look further into the matter.

I would actually disagree with that statement. In my experience, every denomination has the equal proportion of folks whom are well studied to all the way to those who have not.

 

[Nancy]

I have never found anything in the bible to support some of the more extreme teachings of the Catholic church. I think a lot of it is just based on somewhat tenuous theories. But Catholics seem to prefer to believe unquestionably them rather than look further into the matter.

Ya know what Pat,
I think it has allot to do with "Sola Scriptura". And, I am totally a proponent of this, it's the complete Word of God and if something does not line up with scripture or edify the Church in some way, I have to question it. I need the order of being able to go to the single source of Truth He left us-especially as it is the ONLY way receive faith.
Many faiths have traditions...I wouldn't say it is sinful, just useless, IMHO!

Joel 2:28
"And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions."

Many see this as today. I am not settled on the fact as yet...like, could this not have been what happened in Act's?