Leaving Room For God.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,008
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
There are three levels of knowledge. I recently saw a pie chart that showed the three levels...

1. What we know
2. What we know we don't know
3. What we don't know we don't know

In the pie chart the first was like 1 percent of all knowledge...and the 2nd was like 2 percent....and the rest was in category #3.

So then leaving room for God, we don't assume we know everything and we allow for more knowledge to come to us. Otherwise rather than knowing much...by just assuming that we know a lot...we actually stop growing and learning anything.

So then how much do we even realize that most knowledge consists on what we don't even know about what we don't know about God and His words?

People are trying to know God through the intellect or through their emotions. But God is Spirit and it takes revelation, insight and grace to know God. Afterwards we can try relating the experience of God with our minds. But the experience of God is spiritual and other.

So then the intellect needs to make room for God to reveal Himself in a new and living way.
 
Last edited:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
23,232
33,208
113
81
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Episkopos
So then God being very aware of and actually basing His plan for men, at least in part, on man's problems with knowledge gave man a different road to walk... leading from faith to knowledge...

"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." Hab 2:4

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." Heb 10:38

But as we "know" LOL , men very often presume something or even a lot about God and His Way but since men are already dead before receiving Life, they actually know nothing:

"...for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

"... but the dead know not any thing,..." Ecc 9:5

But God knowing also the dead state of men made provision for them so that they could move back into Life and "know" something good:

"...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith... " Heb 12:2

"...there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18

So then through faith dead men have sought and followed Jesus to attain to the Life, which he brought, which results in real knowledge of that which was good, God!

Praise His name!
 
Last edited:

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,008
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Why are so many obsessed with self? Why do we limit ourselves to what the natural man can do or not do....and deny the heavenly gift (grace) and what God can do through us and in us? To do so is to be stuck on the law without understanding grace. In truth and experientially...Jesus Christ is perfect. He is our perfection. Walk in Him. We are the containers...but He is the life. That is the truth...and the testimony of they who are no longer under the law....in reality. Jesus Christ brings truth and reality to a relationship with God. Otherwise it is all just assumptions and presumptions.

It is the carnal idea of Jesus that has no power but in the mind of the one doing the imagining (belief). It is just the imagination at work. And if you get the imagination mixed in with religious ideology...you get the present state of claiming to be saved by beliefs about Jesus...with the intellect...but not in experience. God will not edify the intellect. So it is futile to try grasping onto God with the carnal mind. God does the impossible...and the mind can't handle that...unless it becomes childlike in faith. But many have by-passed that in order to try approaching God as an adult carnal man. That's NOT the way.

So rather than go deeper into unbelief and deny the experience of the gospel to others...thus preaching an "anti-gospel"...we need to leave room for the mystery of God. Or do we not believe that with God ALL things are possible? Become like a child in wonder and expectation. Unless we lose the dogmatic rigidity of a supposed clear thinking...we will remain as we are...and God will not translate us into that closer walk. It takes faith...not disbelief. Become as a fool to become wise.
 
Last edited:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
23,232
33,208
113
81
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why are so many obsessed with self?
This the way of the carnal man. It is the way of unbelievers. It is where everyone of us started.

If a person has not moved at all away from selfishness and is not continuing to move [be moved] toward selflessness, then how can he sincerely speak of being "born again" or "born from above"? So called believers who are focusing always on salvation, their own in particular, have really missed the message of just where Jesus was and where God wants us to be.

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself...." John 10:17-18


Then Paul writes:

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

And John writes:

"... it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Jesus lay down His life, but too many people are focusing on never dying themselves. Why are they sure that they are really Alive now when they cannot see His face? Dead men cannot see anything at all...
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This the way of the carnal man. It is the way of unbelievers. It is where everyone of us started.

If a person has not moved at all away from selfishness and is not continuing to move [be moved] toward selflessness, then how can he sincerely speak of being "born again" or "born from above"? So called believers who are focusing always on salvation, their own in particular, have really missed the message of just where Jesus was and where God wants us to be.

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself...." John 10:17-18


Then Paul writes:

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

And John writes:

"... it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Jesus lay down His life, but too many people are focusing on never dying themselves. Why are they sure that they are really Alive now when they cannot see His face? Dead men cannot see anything at all...
you are on point old friend, may we add a scripture to that, since this is good meat you have put out. Hebrews 12:4

PICJAG.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,008
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I took this from another site...but was surprised at how accurate this is...




The living Jesus empowers us to die and His cross is the symbol of sacrifice and death. To live for Him is to die to ourselves and the world. As we move forward in our lives and become more like Jesus, we have to continually die to ourselves, in other words if we want to live an abundant life in the Lord we must abide in the cross. And so there is an important intertwining of dying to ourselves and living the resurrected life. It is the heads and the tails of the same coin. If we focus on just one aspect to the detriment of the other, we will become imbalanced in our walk. We must pick up our cross daily. It is important to realize that this will produce an abundant spiritual life in Christ. And while you may be dying to the flesh internally, the world should see your joy expressed externally and wonder and marvel how such a thing could be. This is pleasing to God.

The proof of our new life, our resurrection from the dead, our authentic faith, is not found in the abundance of our possessions as some would have us believe. The proof of our faith is how we react to carrying our cross. In the midst of this death to ourselves does the love of Jesus pour forth from us? Do we minister to others when we ourselves are in the midst of trial and testings? Have we found the secret of being content in every situation? The cross does not lie. There is no hypocrisy on the cross.The cross signifies death to self and death to the world. It’s only by taking up our cross that we can crucify the flesh. The flesh wars against the Spirit. The flesh must die. It dies only upon the cross, it thrives upon indulgence and self and self pity.

The walk of the cross can be a lonely walk. Yet in every generation, across denominational lines, brothers and sisters are called out. They know each other when they meet. They are people who have rejected the “norm.” They are a people who seek a deeper walk with Jesus. While the crowd runs after the latest craze and have their ears tickled, the saints find themselves on an ancient narrow path. This path begins at Calvary and ends at the throne. It is a very difficult and lonely path but all the saints who have come before you have walked this very path. Be encouraged today saints, God sees the afflictions of His people. He has not left us as orphans.

We have the Holy Spirit who can take us to a place that Jesus has prepared for us. He is our high tower and the righteous run into it and they are safe. There is a place beneath His wings that is ours. He has given us spiritual wings so that we can fly to this place. And in this prepared place we discover joy where there should be no joy. We discover peace where there should be no peace. We discover love where hate should consume us. We are fed although a famine has overtaken the land. He is our fountain in a land that is dry and dusty, in a land where there is no water.

As the spiritual famine deepens, as the drought begins to change the landscape, as the counterfeit increases daily, the Lord knows how to feed His children. As the storm rages all around us the Lord says to His children “I am the eye of the storm, do not be afraid of it, walk into the heart of it and find peace. I am the Lord of all storms and I stand in the midst of them and beckon unto my own to come unto me and take my hand and I will lead you through and you will not be overcome nor destroyed.” We praise the Lord today that He sees all things and He knows all things and to those who have taken up their cross and walk the narrow path He is your strength and your comfort and He sustains you.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I took this from another site...but was surprised at how accurate this is...




The living Jesus empowers us to die and His cross is the symbol of sacrifice and death. To live for Him is to die to ourselves and the world. As we move forward in our lives and become more like Jesus, we have to continually die to ourselves, in other words if we want to live an abundant life in the Lord we must abide in the cross. And so there is an important intertwining of dying to ourselves and living the resurrected life. It is the heads and the tails of the same coin. If we focus on just one aspect to the detriment of the other, we will become imbalanced in our walk. We must pick up our cross daily. It is important to realize that this will produce an abundant spiritual life in Christ. And while you may be dying to the flesh internally, the world should see your joy expressed externally and wonder and marvel how such a thing could be. This is pleasing to God.

The proof of our new life, our resurrection from the dead, our authentic faith, is not found in the abundance of our possessions as some would have us believe. The proof of our faith is how we react to carrying our cross. In the midst of this death to ourselves does the love of Jesus pour forth from us? Do we minister to others when we ourselves are in the midst of trial and testings? Have we found the secret of being content in every situation? The cross does not lie. There is no hypocrisy on the cross.The cross signifies death to self and death to the world. It’s only by taking up our cross that we can crucify the flesh. The flesh wars against the Spirit. The flesh must die. It dies only upon the cross, it thrives upon indulgence and self and self pity.

The walk of the cross can be a lonely walk. Yet in every generation, across denominational lines, brothers and sisters are called out. They know each other when they meet. They are people who have rejected the “norm.” They are a people who seek a deeper walk with Jesus. While the crowd runs after the latest craze and have their ears tickled, the saints find themselves on an ancient narrow path. This path begins at Calvary and ends at the throne. It is a very difficult and lonely path but all the saints who have come before you have walked this very path. Be encouraged today saints, God sees the afflictions of His people. He has not left us as orphans.

We have the Holy Spirit who can take us to a place that Jesus has prepared for us. He is our high tower and the righteous run into it and they are safe. There is a place beneath His wings that is ours. He has given us spiritual wings so that we can fly to this place. And in this prepared place we discover joy where there should be no joy. We discover peace where there should be no peace. We discover love where hate should consume us. We are fed although a famine has overtaken the land. He is our fountain in a land that is dry and dusty, in a land where there is no water.

As the spiritual famine deepens, as the drought begins to change the landscape, as the counterfeit increases daily, the Lord knows how to feed His children. As the storm rages all around us the Lord says to His children “I am the eye of the storm, do not be afraid of it, walk into the heart of it and find peace. I am the Lord of all storms and I stand in the midst of them and beckon unto my own to come unto me and take my hand and I will lead you through and you will not be overcome nor destroyed.” We praise the Lord today that He sees all things and He knows all things and to those who have taken up their cross and walk the narrow path He is your strength and your comfort and He sustains you.
I agree, you and our brother amadeus is setting the dinner table, making me a little nervous, is that wedding dinner is about to take place? (smile)

well the only thing I can do is just add a little salt, and Pepper scripture,
SALT,
Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:27 "And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:28 "For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?Luke 14:29 "Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luke 14:30 "Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luke 14:31 "Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luke 14:32 "Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luke 14:33 "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

PEPPER,
John 12:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
John 12:25 "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
John 12:26 "If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

ok now the dinner ware to be placed.

PICJAG.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,008
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Now there is a kind of believer that has a righteous soul...an outlook that champions love above all else...but has a great difficulty with the holiness requirements of God. Things like having to hate your family or forsake what you love in order to follow Christ.

These will question the need for something more ;...like special anointings or spiritual encounters with God. There is an extra sensitivity that has come about through the many abuses of these kind of things experienced in the church in their past. So there is a reticence to accept any kind of spiritual authority...due to the previous hurts and scars from these spiritual abuses. People are dealing with things...or avoiding their hurts and things which have made them suffer for seemingly no reason. There are issues that need to be dealt with.

We could call these kinds of people "cocoon Christians."

They are protected by a complete refusal to look at anything beyond their own very personal grasp of a God who is loving and supportive of their every effort. They need to keep God firmly within their own sphere or cocoon. Letting God out of this limitation to their understand causes these grief. Akin to a child who can't let it's mother out of sight....even for a moment. There is an avoidance of getting into the deeper spiritual matters.

And this avoidance can be justified because of the love that is being cultivated in the relationships with others on a daily basis. Or at least it would seem to be that way. The cocoon is showing some benefits. The sense of control is satisfying. But is this not in the end just tailoring a god for oneself? Ignoring one aspect of God in order to focus on another? And this may seem necessary for a time. For a time. Children eventually grow out of the need to control the whereabouts of the mother. So it is possible to break out of one's dependence on the control of how God can and should be.

I find the best way to help people to not get into a permanent rut and become a persecutor of holiness....is to suggest to these to leave room for the God of the unknown (and possibly terrifying) holiness realm. Leave it as an X. Paul approached the Greeks in that way...saying that they had already erected a temple to the "unknown God." Make room for a bigger God.

So then to the cocoon Christians...God is yet unknown...apart from the personal dealings. Their God is a personal God who helps them to love others. But He is unknown in HIS habitation.

So the wise choice is just to leave room for such a God that also fills the universe...or else we limit God to being only that which appeases a person. The ego.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: faithfulness

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
14,008
21,591
113
66
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
A lot of offences happen when we look to others to adopt their idea of spirituality in our formative stages. We can naively trust a person who has an aberrant behaviour and only see the damage this can cause when it is already too late. Damage done.

The aberrant behaviour begins when we get the wrong idea of who we are and what we are supposed to do. Also not discerning what others are doing and why they do so also compounds the problem. Sometimes we resist the good without knowing it. Sometimes we receive the error without discerning it.

Knowing ourselves can be a long and painful process. Not blaming others for their failures and the hurts we receive because of their lack....can also take a long time. We will all experience disappointments along the way. A LOT of disappointments.

But, we are to forgive others and move on. Forgiveness leaves US with more room to grow. Forgiveness leaves room for God.

Are we looking for a God who is safe? Or a God who is good? God will let us stumble around and be troubled for a time...so that we learn to forgive others. He lets others "ride over our heads" in order to fashion us into a compliant servant who is faithful and productive. Not unlike an army boot camp. Those He loves He chastens and rebukes. But always for our eternal benefit.

Psalm 66:12
12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou brought us out into a wealthy place.

So here we need to leave room for God's training...and accept everything that comes our way with joy.

When we don't like the difficulties that others bring to us do we say..."this can't be God!" Do we draw our line in the sand saying..."this far and no farther?" Do we get defensive and try preserving what perhaps God intends to put to death?

So we ought to take these things to God and not judge too hastily. Of course growth is going to be somewhat painful. But God will always surprise us on the way He chooses to speak to us.

With holiness comes a great offence to the flesh. We must guard ourselves against stumbling over Jesus. Many people have done so...and just because we don't perceive we have stumbled over Him yet....doesn't mean that He will not cross over that line we have drawn in the sand.

Leave room for God and put away the hurts received from others. Let no man steal your childlike openness to the wonders of God.

This life in Christ is a great adventure.
 
Last edited: