Open rebellion against God

[Candidus]

Because it's the false sense of condemnation when you forget this that can stumble you out of your faith and therefore into sin. But His blood is currently cleansing us also.

Strange... is sinning "walking in the light, as He Himself is in the light? In Him there is no darkness at all?

Present tense cleansing of the Believer only happens "if" we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light (1 Jn. 1:7). The opposite must be true too... If we do not walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we do not have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ does not cleanse us from all sin.

Cleansing from sin and the forgiveness of sins is not ever Future sins in the Bible.

 

[Candidus]

OK, thank you, I think I understand now.

You parse sins into "OK" sins and "Not OK" sins.

To me, all that is not of faith is sin. There is no parsing. Either something comes from the life of Christ in me or it doesn't.

Thank you for your clarification!

Much love!

I "parse" sin Biblically, because the Bible "parses" sin.

 

[theophilus]

None of our future sins existed when Christ died. You can build a tower of presumption upon some flawed human logic, but you cannot show in Scripture that such is true.

God is omniscient. He knows everything that happens and everything that will ever happen in the future. It seems to me that your errors are the result of not understanding this fact.

 

[farouk]

When Christ died for our sins all of them were still in the future.

@theophilus What amazing love and omniscience!

 

[Candidus]

@theophilus What amazing love and omniscience!

What amazing rationalization and fiction!

 

[Candidus]

God is omniscient. He knows everything that happens and everything that will ever happen in the future. It seems to me that your errors are the result of not understanding this fact.

Sure, you have no proof of that. You create your own idea of omniscience, and then assume that the Bible does not matter!

What you believe is Theology and Doctrine is mere Human Philosophy. For something to be true Theology and Doctrine, it must be in the Bible.

 

[farouk]

What amazing rationalization and fiction!

I don't understand your comment, Sir.

 

[theophilus]

Sure, you have no proof of that. You create your own idea of omniscience, and then assume that the Bible does not matter!

What you believe is Theology and Doctrine is mere Human Philosophy. For something to be true Theology and Doctrine, it must be in the Bible.

Belief in the omniscience of God is based on the Bible. What human philosophy teaches this?

 

[Candidus]

God is Omnipresent, does that mean Pantheism, that every blade of grass is actually God? Is mowing my lawn a sin?

 

[Candidus]

God is Omnipotent, does that mean that he is evil? All that unnecessary pain and suffering the world, and God does not stop it?

Having the power to do anything, does not mean that He is obligated to do certain things! God is Omnipresent, yet is He alone on the top of every mountain where no people have ever been? Omniscience, is God obligated, or can God limit His omniscience as He does His other attributes? Why not? The Bible certainly says there are things He does not foreknow.

 

[theophilus]

God is Omnipresent, does that mean Pantheism, that every blade of grass is actually God?

God is Omnipotent, does that mean that he is evil? All that unnecessary pain and suffering the world, and God does not stop it?

The answer to both of these questions is "No". God is present in every part of his creation but the creation isn't part of him. Evil exists because some of God's creatures have chosen to disobey him. He is allowing it for a time to carry out his plans and to give us the opportunity to repent, but the time is coming when all evil will be erased from creation. Read the last two chapters of Revelation to find out what it will be like then.

 

[Candidus]

The answer to both of these questions is "No". God is present in every part of his creation but the creation isn't part of him. Evil exists because some of God's creatures have chosen to disobey him. He is allowing it for a time to carry out his plans and to give us the opportunity to repent, but the time is coming when all evil will be erased from creation. Read the last two chapters of Revelation to find out what it will be like then.

The Bible says that God hates evil, so if an Omnipotent God allows evil to exist, He is either evil, or he is not Omnipotent!

Let's build our theology on the logic of what we think of God's attributes and not Scripture!

 

[Candidus]

The answer to both of these questions is "No". God is present in every part of his creation but the creation isn't part of him. Evil exists because some of God's creatures have chosen to disobey him. He is allowing it for a time to carry out his plans and to give us the opportunity to repent, but the time is coming when all evil will be erased from creation. Read the last two chapters of Revelation to find out what it will be like then.

The answer is "yes" as you point out!

God is:
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient

You admit that Omnipotence and Omnipresence are not "absolute" and place limits and exceptions on those attributes. Yet, you become an absolutist when it comes to Omniscience because it feeds the circular argument of all future sins being forgiven. If a doctrine only exists only in a circular argument and not Scripture, it is not true.

 

[Candidus]

You don't get to have it both ways.

If you stumble into sin, then you are not a Christian, isn't that what you teach? No sin? Or some sin?

How is this an answer to my post? Do you not believe the Scriptures? You can't have it both ways!

 

[Candidus]

Why would you suppose such a thing as that?

I suspect you don't suppose such a thing at all, and merely wish to sling ridicule.

The response was made to a true believer that "un-born" is a solid argument. The example of "un-cancelling" stamps is the exact same argument as saying that a Christian can be "un-born." It is utter nonsense! You can explain the futility of bad logic and flawed arguments by giving an example why it is absurd. What you call ridicule is a valid example and response to flawed logic.

Perhaps this would be a "discussion" if you spent more time on replying to what is said and its meaning concerning the argument that was posted, instead of jumping of the opportunity to find fault and launch into ad hominems.

 

[marks]

theophilus said: ↑
God is omniscient. He knows everything that happens and everything that will ever happen in the future. It seems to me that your errors are the result of not understanding this fact.

Sure, you have no proof of that. You create your own idea of omniscience, and then assume that the Bible does not matter!

What you believe is Theology and Doctrine is mere Human Philosophy. For something to be true Theology and Doctrine, it must be in the Bible.

To your understanding, is God's knowledge less than complete?

 

[marks]

The response was made to a true believer that "un-born" is a solid argument. The example of "un-cancelling" stamps is the exact same argument as saying that a Christian can be "un-born." It is utter nonsense! You can explain the futility of bad logic and flawed arguments by giving an example why it is absurd. What you call ridicule is a valid example and response to flawed logic.

Perhaps this would be a "discussion" if you spent more time on replying to what is said and its meaning concerning the argument that was posted, instead of jumping of the opportunity to find fault and launch into ad hominems.

Perhaps I've misunderstood something. Do you consider the "true believer" to be born again?

If you do, and if you believe the born again who sins will die again, that, that's to say that they would return to the previous natural state, no longer born of God, ergo, un-born-again.

Now, if you don't think the believer is born again, I realize some think we are "attaining to re-birth", then I can see where this wouldn't make sense. So, there is a a question.

What I call ridicule is when you say, "I suppose you have your stamps Uncancelled" as if I'm a fool. Or you could say, That would be like taking your stamps to the bank . . . The choice to personalize is yours.

If you've been born of God, this makes you something entirely different than the one born from Adam. An fully different sort of being. To "die again" would not be the same thing as when Adam died, or the death we die because of our sins. It would not be the death of one of God's created creatures. We're talking about the death of one born from God, the spirit child of the Creator, that doesn't even have a material body.

Much love!

 

[marks]

God is Omnipotent, does that mean that he is evil? All that unnecessary pain and suffering the world, and God does not stop it?

Are you thinking that God does not put an immediate end to evil because He is not powerful enough?

Having the power to do anything, does not mean that He is obligated to do certain things!

Isn't that a shift in the meaning here? Omnipotent is able to do anything. And being able to do anything doesn't mean that God will automatically do what you think He should. But that does NOT change the fact that God is omnipotent.

God is Omnipresent, yet is He alone on the top of every mountain where no people have ever been?

So then you likewise put limits on where God can be? Only where people have been?

Omniscience, is God obligated, or can God limit His omniscience as He does His other attributes? Why not? The Bible certainly says there are things He does not foreknow.

God becomes intentionally ignorant?

 

[Candidus]

Are you thinking that God does not put an immediate end to evil because He is not powerful enough?

I am showing that people admit a limitation. Omnipotence does not demand that God use His power in every instance. That power is not used absolutely.

Isn't that a shift in the meaning here? Omnipotent is able to do anything. And being able to do anything doesn't mean that God will automatically do what you think He should. But that does NOT change the fact that God is omnipotent.

Exactly! I never said that God was not Omnipotent.

So then you likewise put limits on where God can be? Only where people have been?

Exactly again! Do we accept and teach a Pantheistic God? Do we take this attribute absolutely? Most will not say that they find that extent of Omnipresence. I would however say, that since the objective of this world, man and God, and the reconciliation of man to God, I do not see any benefit or sense in why God would show His presence where there are no objects of His salvation efforts.

God becomes intentionally ignorant?

This assumes that He already knows what He is being ignorant of. God can choose, and does limit His power, he limits His presence to a non-pantheistic way, or more than likely in the presence of mankind, why can we not accept that God can choose whether to look forward and know certain details, such as the future choices of men?

An all powerful Being that cannot choose when, where and how to use that power- is not Omnipotent.

An ever-present Being, that cannot but be in every blade of grass- is not Omnipotent or free.

A Being that knows all things, yet cannot choose to not know- is not Omnipotent and free. Several passages speak to God not knowing, being unsure of man's response and the like. It is not that God cannot know, but that He allows some things to run and take place apart from knowing.

A bound God that is absolutely Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent is not free to do anything. It would make people toys on a gameboard that are moved around the apart from any part of their own doing.

 

[marks]

I am showing that people admit a limitation. Omnipotence does not demand that God use His power in every instance. That power is not used absolutely.



Exactly! I never said that God was not Omnipotent.



Exactly again! Do we accept and teach a Pantheistic God? Do we take this attribute absolutely? Most will not say that they find that extent of Omnipresence. I would however say, that since the objective of this world, man and God, and the reconciliation of man to God, I do not see any benefit or sense in why God would show His presence where there are no objects of His salvation efforts.



This assumes that He already knows what He is being ignorant of. God can choose, and does limit His power, he limits His presence to a non-pantheistic way, or more than likely in the presence of mankind, why can we not accept that God can choose whether to look forward and know certain details, such as the future choices of men?

An all powerful Being that cannot choose when, where and how to use that power- is not Omnipotent.

An ever-present Being, that cannot but be in every blade of grass- is not Omnipotent or free.

A Being that knows all things, yet cannot choose to not know- is not Omnipotent and free. Several passages speak to God not knowing, being unsure of man's response and the like. It is not that God cannot know, but that He allows some things to run and take place apart from knowing.

A bound God that is absolutely Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent is not free to do anything. It would make people toys on a gameboard that are moved around the apart from any part of their own doing.

Can't say that I agree with your logic.

The all-powerful God is not all-powerful if He cannot become not all-powerful? If He cannot become ignorant?

We have radically different ideas of God. My God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present.

I hardly know what to say!

Much love!