the mystery of identification

[Randy Kluth]

It's an amazing truth to me that we can identify with Christ. We can align ourselves with him in his death, and be considered dead to the Law of Moses (not that I was ever under that Law).

And it's amazing to me that I can identify with Christ in his resurrection so that one day in the future I also may be raised from the dead.

Somehow Jesus let go of any divine grudge against our sin simply because we confessed it and chose to identify with him. That is all God has ever asked, that we confess our sin and so assume the position of repentance by identifying with Jesus.

What enables this identification with Jesus? It is simply believing that he is the Way, Truth, and Life. It is seeing in him the template for human righteousness. We choose to reject our own failures, and adopt him as the template for our eternal righteousness.

What goes into this transition is difficult to explain to the uninitiated. But identification is real, as I'm sure many here could attest to!

 

[DPMartin]

It's an amazing truth to me that we can identify with Christ. We can align ourselves with him in his death, and be considered dead to the Law of Moses (not that I was ever under that Law).

And it's amazing to me that I can identify with Christ in his resurrection so that one day in the future I also may be raised from the dead.

Somehow Jesus let go of any divine grudge against our sin simply because we confessed it and chose to identify with him. That is all God has ever asked, that we confess our sin and so assume the position of repentance by identifying with Jesus.

What enables this identification with Jesus? It is simply believing that he is the Way, Truth, and Life. It is seeing in him the template for human righteousness. We choose to reject our own failures, and adopt him as the template for our eternal righteousness.

What goes into this transition is difficult to explain to the uninitiated. But identification is real, as I'm sure many here could attest to!

what you are missing here is will Jesus identify with you?


also you might rethink your understand of what the law is, in the case of by the hand of Moses. Jesus fulfilled the said law, therefore it is paramount to those involved with the same fulfillment of the same Life of Christ.


Rom 3:26　 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.　
Rom 3:27　 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.　
Rom 3:28　 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.　
Rom 3:29　 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:　
Rom 3:30　 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.　
Rom 3:31　 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.　


the law is a testimony and a covenant hence a witness and a agreement, of which Jesus fulfilled the agreement and the agreement is the witness of Him.

 

[Randy Kluth]

what you are missing here is will Jesus identify with you?

That goes without saying. I'm mesmerized by the idea that we can look at Jesus and at what he did and simply choose to identify with him, just as Israel in the wilderness looked up the serpent lifted up and were healed.

The mind finds it unfathomable that simply looking upon something can transform us. But when we opt to exchange our life for his life we simply adopt him as our source of life and it becomes ours. It is an instant spiritual transformation.

also you might rethink your understand of what the law is, in the case of by the hand of Moses. Jesus fulfilled the said law, therefore it is paramount to those involved with the same fulfillment of the same Life of Christ.

We agree on that. I tend to distinguish the Law of God as a universal, eternal reality, when God created us to live in His image and likeness. This is an eternal law, as opposed to the Law of Moses, which was indeed fulfilled and terminated with the death and resurrection of Christ. We were thus released from the condemnation of the Law, which can only be revoked by the forgiveness of Christ.

When we look upon Christ as the only viable alternative life to our own, we are able to identify with his death, and therefore are no longer under the Law of Moses (if we were Israel). Those who are dead are no longer under that Law.

In identifying with his death we also identify with his resurrection, and thus rise, spiritually, into a new life not under the Law of Moses. We remain subject to the eternal Law of God to live in His image. But there is no condemnation in this inasmuch as we identify with the sinless Christ.

Rom 3:26　 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.　
Rom 3:27　 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.　
Rom 3:28　 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.　
Rom 3:29　 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:　
Rom 3:30　 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.　
Rom 3:31　 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.　


the law is a testimony and a covenant hence a witness and a agreement, of which Jesus fulfilled the agreement and the agreement is the witness of Him.

I agree. I probably didn't do the best job explaining myself. I didn't really ask a question--just wanted to share with an opening for anybody to comment. Thanks for your comments!

 

[DPMartin]

The mind finds it unfathomable that simply looking upon something can transform us. But when we opt to exchange our life for his life we simply adopt him as our source of life and it becomes ours. It is an instant spiritual transformation.

well revelation of something that is believed and trusted always transforms. a coach can reveal a once unknown truth to a player, and the player is transformed into excellence, because he believes and trusts the coach. its not brain science or rocket surgery. but the player must have the life of a player to be welcome to the truth. (on the team).


basically, Jesus speaks to those on the team, revealing the Truth of God, to those on the team who get it or will get it, those who are not on the team, don't.

Jesus revealed His risen self to who? and not the whole world.

 

[Randy Kluth]

well revelation of something that is believed and trusted always transforms. a coach can reveal a once unknown truth to a player, and the player is transformed into excellence, because he believes and trusts the coach. its not brain science or rocket surgery. but the player must have the life of a player to be welcome to the truth. (on the team).


basically, Jesus speaks to those on the team, revealing the Truth of God, to those on the team who get it or will get it, those who are not on the team, don't.

Jesus revealed His risen self to who? and not the whole world.

Yea, I think that's a significant element in this. Not all chose to look at the serpent hung up in the wilderness. And not all were healed.

In the same way, many can look at the historic Jesus, see a lot of good moral notions, and still not get transformed, spiritually.

So not all benefit from looking at and identifying with Jesus. It is something the Elect do when they look upon him and actually identify with him. That is, they see him as the ideal, as the basis for our justification. He becomes the example of how we should live, and as we opt for him, he becomes our spiritual life.

It is certainly more than just "admiring a coach," though. It' a recognition of our bankruptcy, and of his ability to make us rich spiritually. And it is a mystery that something beyond us can suddenly become ours--not something we're used to in this life, unless we've already been there.

Try to explain it to someone in the world. They have no clue. But they are drawn by this view of Jesus, as a transcendent God, who appeared on earth for our salvation. They are often turned off by it, because it is offensive to their own moral record, and because it is not something they can control.

People by nature are rebellious and don't want to be told what to do. But the attractiveness of a way out of the human dilemma compels the Elect to move forward and accept the possibility of something that can control them from beyond, and the evidence becomes overwhelming in the transition from unsaved to saved. This identification is a choice to move forward with a real need to get beyond ourselves, and to enjoy loving our Creator.