ALL CLEAR!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ALL CLEAR!

In Romans Eight we get the believer escaped from sin as a master, and the Law as a husband (concerning the Jew), in his new place in the Lord Jesus Christ. Being in Him, the believer is a spiritual person, no longer in the flesh (Ro 8:9), and the flesh is discharged as well as sin and the Law; that is, we are no longer under the old master, the old Adamic life and nature (“dominion”; Ro 6:14)! The flesh (old man), thus condemned in the death of the Cross, could never have yielded any fruit of allegiance to God (Rom 8:7), so that we say, it was “bad rubbish” in itself and to be free of it is “good riddance.” In looking at the believer in his new position in the Lord Jesus, Paul with delight traces the holy prerogatives of such a one:



• He is nothing less than a son, having the Spirit of adoption, not the Spirit of bondage as a servant.

• Bring thus a son, the Spirit is in him as at home.

• Being thus a son, he is also an heir, co-heirship of God with Jesus Christ.

• As the great principle of this co-heirship, he is to shine in the same personal glory by-and-by as the Lord Jesus (the glory of union with the Father as the Son is - Jhn 17:21, 22), in the hope (not a hopeful-hope but a knowing-hope we enjoy in advance—NC) of the manifestation of which glory in us the whole creation waits.



All this condition of the believer may cause him to groan under the sense of his present condition of the body, and that he is still in hope, like the whole creation (Rom 8:22, 23). Yet the Spirit given to him and being in him, groans also, and groans with so pure a groan that the Father has entire fellowship with it (Rom 8:26). Even more than this: He in His sovereign rule of all things constrains them all to work together for the believer’s good, that without as well as within us He will be for us (Rom 8:28).

Finally, the one great original purpose of conforming the believer to the pattern of the glorified Son is that which has been the spring, and is the everlasting and abiding source of all divine procedure and action. This is the train of glorious privileges which flow forth from the believer’s union with the Lord Jesus. Nothing is too excellent for the Father to do or to devise for such a one; all the joy that the fullest love can inspire, all the dignity that the highest glories can put on us, are ours thus according to the counsel of the Father in the Son. Our Father is for us—that can easily account for all this stream of joys and glories.

If He is for us, who can be against us (growth can be effected but not redemption—NC)? Who can do anything to harm us (spiritually—NC)? Is there an accuser, a judge, or an executioner stull standing out? The first may go away rebuked by this—that our Father has justified us; the second may go away rebuked by this—that our Savior has died, has already suffered the judgment, and His work has been accepted to the full in heaven itself; the third may go away rebuke by this—that all the malice of earth and hell together shall never drag us away from the embraces, the firm and eternal embraces of our Father in Christ Jesus our Lord. If there be now neither accuser to charge, nor judge to condemn, nor executioner to punish, the court is cleared!

We have left the scene, to which as sinners we had been righteously dragged, to meet Him who has delivered us in other scenes altogether; not as the Judge but as the Bridegroom, to enjoy a Husband in a Savior for all eternity.

—J G Bellett (1795-1864)
 

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
7,046
3,950
113
65
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ALL CLEAR!

In Romans Eight we get the believer escaped from sin as a master, and the Law as a husband (concerning the Jew), in his new place in the Lord Jesus Christ. Being in Him, the believer is a spiritual person, no longer in the flesh (Ro 8:9), and the flesh is discharged as well as sin and the Law; that is, we are no longer under the old master, the old Adamic life and nature (“dominion”; Ro 6:14)! The flesh (old man), thus condemned in the death of the Cross, could never have yielded any fruit of allegiance to God (Rom 8:7), so that we say, it was “bad rubbish” in itself and to be free of it is “good riddance.” In looking at the believer in his new position in the Lord Jesus, Paul with delight traces the holy prerogatives of such a one:



• He is nothing less than a son, having the Spirit of adoption, not the Spirit of bondage as a servant.

• Bring thus a son, the Spirit is in him as at home.

• Being thus a son, he is also an heir, co-heirship of God with Jesus Christ.

• As the great principle of this co-heirship, he is to shine in the same personal glory by-and-by as the Lord Jesus (the glory of union with the Father as the Son is - Jhn 17:21, 22), in the hope (not a hopeful-hope but a knowing-hope we enjoy in advance—NC) of the manifestation of which glory in us the whole creation waits.



All this condition of the believer may cause him to groan under the sense of his present condition of the body, and that he is still in hope, like the whole creation (Rom 8:22, 23). Yet the Spirit given to him and being in him, groans also, and groans with so pure a groan that the Father has entire fellowship with it (Rom 8:26). Even more than this: He in His sovereign rule of all things constrains them all to work together for the believer’s good, that without as well as within us He will be for us (Rom 8:28).

Finally, the one great original purpose of conforming the believer to the pattern of the glorified Son is that which has been the spring, and is the everlasting and abiding source of all divine procedure and action. This is the train of glorious privileges which flow forth from the believer’s union with the Lord Jesus. Nothing is too excellent for the Father to do or to devise for such a one; all the joy that the fullest love can inspire, all the dignity that the highest glories can put on us, are ours thus according to the counsel of the Father in the Son. Our Father is for us—that can easily account for all this stream of joys and glories.

If He is for us, who can be against us (growth can be effected but not redemption—NC)? Who can do anything to harm us (spiritually—NC)? Is there an accuser, a judge, or an executioner stull standing out? The first may go away rebuked by this—that our Father has justified us; the second may go away rebuked by this—that our Savior has died, has already suffered the judgment, and His work has been accepted to the full in heaven itself; the third may go away rebuke by this—that all the malice of earth and hell together shall never drag us away from the embraces, the firm and eternal embraces of our Father in Christ Jesus our Lord. If there be now neither accuser to charge, nor judge to condemn, nor executioner to punish, the court is cleared!

We have left the scene, to which as sinners we had been righteously dragged, to meet Him who has delivered us in other scenes altogether; not as the Judge but as the Bridegroom, to enjoy a Husband in a Savior for all eternity.

—J G Bellett (1795-1864)
Excellent post !!!

One of it not the most glorious chapters in all of scripture, Romans 8.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Excellent post !!!

One of it not the most glorious chapters in all of scripture, Romans 8.
I agree, esp. v28, and thanks for your comment! The Chapter alternates between those who will never again be after the sin nature (v 9), e.g. 5. "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

God be Blessed!
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,310
2,613
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
ALL CLEAR!

I could agree with so much that you say! The only thing I would warn about is that when God gives us His best, in redemption, part of "His best" is the desire to see us conform to Christ in this age in the same way that Christ conformed to us to redeem us.

What this means in a practical sense is that we do not enter into our eternal dominion immediately. Rather, as long as we remain in these flawed, mortal bodies we have to remain in a flawed, sinful world and will experience both chastisements and troubles associated with a world under judgment.

This can still be viewed as "God's best," even though it involves our chastisement and suffering, or perhaps even as a martyr. It is confirmation to us that this is the path of redemption, leading to eternal glory. Thanks! :)
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I could agree with so much that you say! The only thing I would warn about is that when God gives us His best, in redemption, part of "His best" is the desire to see us conform to Christ in this age in the same way that Christ conformed to us to redeem us.
I can only partly agree with your comments, because I'm one who understands that redemption is complete and permanent upon application by faith, and it's only in the walk that the Spirit conforms us, to show Christ's redemption in us. If conformation isn't evident, God is not "working" in us (Phl 2:13), and are still unsaved.

Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChristisGod

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,310
2,613
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I can only partly agree with your comments, because I'm one who understands that redemption is complete and permanent upon application by faith, and it's only in the walk that the Spirit conforms us, to show Christ's redemption in us. If conformation isn't evident, God is not "working" in us (Phl 2:13), and are still unsaved.

Thanks!

I'm just a little bit confused by your comment. I *clearly* believe and agree with you that Christians should *conform* to Christ in order to evidence their redemption! I also believe in the Finished Work of Christ's Salvation, and that we are applying work that has already been completed on the Cross and in the Resurrection.

So I'm not sure where we disagree at all? In saying Christ's Work was Completed on the Cross, are you saying that we no longer have to bear our own cross, because he bore the cross for us?
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm just a little bit confused by your comment. I *clearly* believe and agree with you that Christians should *conform* to Christ
I'm thinking I may not have been clear enough with what I was trying to share, and maybe I'm being too technical. It appears we might be meaning the same thing from your last reply. I meant it's not that we can conform ourselves but it's the Spirit that conforms (enables) us, i.e. not conform but "be conformed" (Rom 8:29); e.g. not we change, but "are changed into the same image" (2Co 3:18), all which becomes evident in our lifestyle. Sorry for the mistake!

When you noted that "we do not enter into our eternal dominion immediately," it appears I may have misunderstood you to mean not actually saved until a future event, because we do have eternal life at the point of faith. But you might be meaning that we are guaranteed it but just haven't entered into it yet. Again, maybe I'm still being too technical.

From what you said here, "I also believe in the Finished Work of Christ's Salvation, and that we are applying work that has already been completed on the Cross and in the Resurrection" I'm thinking you might mean salvation is permanent too, in which case you're right that we are in total agreement.

So I'm not sure where we disagree at all? In saying Christ's Work was Completed on the Cross, are you saying that we no longer have to bear our own cross, because he bore the cross for us?
I was referring to the point that we have no part in effecting salvation, other than coming to faith and being recipients, which will show in our manner of walk.

Hope I'm not still complicating things, and God bless Brother!
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,310
2,613
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm thinking I may not have been clear enough with what I was trying to share, and maybe I'm being too technical. It appears we might be meaning the same thing from your last reply. I meant it's not that we can conform ourselves but it's the Spirit that conforms (enables) us, i.e. not conform but "be conformed" (Rom 8:29); e.g. not we change, but "are changed into the same image" (2Co 3:18), all which becomes evident in our lifestyle. Sorry for the mistake!

When you noted that "we do not enter into our eternal dominion immediately," it appears I may have misunderstood you to mean not actually saved until a future event, because we do have eternal life at the point of faith. But you might be meaning that we are guaranteed it but just haven't entered into it yet. Again, maybe I'm still being too technical.

From what you said here, "I also believe in the Finished Work of Christ's Salvation, and that we are applying work that has already been completed on the Cross and in the Resurrection" I'm thinking you might mean salvation is permanent too, in which case you're right that we are in total agreement.


I was referring to the point that we have no part in effecting salvation, other than coming to faith and being recipients, which will show in our manner of walk.

Hope I'm not still complicating things, and God bless Brother!

Yea, I just think we were being concerned for what the other *might have* meant! ;) Thanks for the explanation. And I certainly don't mind you being concerned. You can never be too careful!
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yea, I just think we were being concerned for what the other *might have* meant! ;) Thanks for the explanation. And I certainly don't mind you being concerned. You can never be too careful!
Glad we're together, and I agree about being careful. Thanks and chat ya latter!