If one finds themselves like Paul in Romans 7......

[Gideons300]

C.L., My experience has been with those are awakened to who they are is that they never stop trying. Relentlessly loving and sharing with any who will listen.... and with some who won't. LOL.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I won't stop trying Gids, my friend!

Well isn't this something . . . you two are the only ones that I "follow," and then I discover that you're friends.

Outstanding!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

LOL It is so refreshing to hear someone use Romans 7 in the correct way - BEFORE Christ, when Paul was still UNDER the Law. Context, context, context! The context is Romans 7:13 - Romans 8:9.

Amen, sister! When I discovered this, wow . . . it had such a massive influence in my changed thinking. In fact, I brought this to the attention of others at Worthy Forums, and was openly mocked. This is just amazing. :)

 

[CharismaticLady]

Amen, sister! When I discovered this, wow . . . it had such a massive influence in my changed thinking. In fact, I brought this to the attention of others at Worthy Forums, and was openly mocked. This is just amazing. :)

Oh yes, they would rather follow their false teachers than read the Bible in context.

 

[Gideons300]

Amen, sister! When I discovered this, wow . . . it had such a massive influence in my changed thinking. In fact, I brought this to the attention of others at Worthy Forums, and was openly mocked. This is just amazing. :)

I want to throw in some thoughts, if I may, on Romans 7. Something to at least chew on.

Even though Paul says very clearly that the things he is about to write are 'to those who know the law',
the truth is he connecting the Mosaic law, which only concerns Jews with THE LAW..... the one that applies to everyone. And what law is that? The law of sin and death.

And the same results Paul experienced trying to live under the demands of the law of Moses is to be our lot as well, for just as the Old Testament law demanded but did not empower, so does the law of sin and death.

One would think that as Christians, we can skip over Romans 7 and go straight from chapter 6 to chapter 8. Right? Not so. Why? Because as long as we live, this law has sway over us and failure and frustration WILL follows.

Just because we get saved does not mean we get to bypass Romans 7, thinking it does not apply to us. It most certainly does. As it was when the people of God were led into the wilderness, Romans 7 becomes our wilderness we too must pass through. PASS THROUGH. Like them, we were never meant to live there. But to escape, a lesson must first be learned.

What caused the Jews to turn a three week trek into a forty year wandering? Unbelief. It must be identified. It must be seen as sin. And it must be rejected.

I can here people now. LOL."Hey, we have already believed!" Oh, the Jews believed too when the Red Sea swallowed up their enemy. But, self still was in charge and unbelief still lurked.... because they still believed in themselves. Self-confidence. Trusting in their own strength of will. And that had to die before they could enter the Promised Land. Just like us.

What does the law teach us? Be Ye Holy as He is Holy. That does not change when we get saved. God still wants to see us made holy. Multitudes have erred right here, and assumed since they are forgiven, everything else is really not that important. Big mistake.

No, guys. God is serious about our being changed into His likeness. The planter of the vineyard wants fruit. And to those who see this, the natural thing to do is to TRY. It does not take long on this path until they see exactly what Paul was talking about. We MUST be holy, for this is God's will. We CANNOT be holy, for we are weak to the demands of law... and why? Because of our flesh... our OLD MAN.

Remember now, this is important. What is the power of sin? The law! And guess what? It has authority over us as long as we live. A hopeless situation? Not at all. Remember one chapter back? Romans 6? Bingo. Here Paul tells us two truths we need to know.

1) We died when Christ died.

2) We rose with Christ when He rose from the dead.

What is the purpose of all this? Hey, we are not under the law any longer. Why do we have to go through our own wilderness and not be able to go straight to the land of Promise? Simple. Because we have a lesson to learn. Even though we are children of the King, God uses the law to teach us that no matter how hard we try, we cannot walk in victory by OUR efforts. We must be holy.We cannot be holy.

But it is our trying.... and failing.... that the real purpose of the law is revealed. To bring us to the point we not only have no confidence in our flesh, we finally learn to HATE our flesh, our old man. You see, only when we get to that point of brokenness can we do the one thing Paul tells us to do in Romans 6...... reckon ourselves dead to sin.... dead to our own nature.

It is only when we truly have lost all hope in us....in our walking in obedience.... in truly pleasing God, that we can look away from ourselves for God to do for us what we cannot do- to make us holy.

You see, this is God's way to free us from the grip of the Law. We have to die. And praise God. we have!

How do we escape Romans 7?

1. Like Paul, we long to not just be forgiven, but to please God. So we try.... hard.

2. We come to hate our failures until we lose all hope in our efforts to do so.

3. Like the Israelites bitten by snakes, we finally look away from us to heal us of our deadly inescapable sins. As wretched men, We cry out to our deliverer to do for us what we cannot do- change us into the image of His Son and set us free indeed.

Right now, we see multitudes not just living in the defeat of. Romans 7 but actually defending it as 'normal' Christianity. It actually is used to defend sin remaining in our lives. All that is about to change.
Our awakening as to who we are is beginning. After all, we have a wedding to get ready for.

blessings,

Gids

 

[CharismaticLady]

I want to throw in some thoughts, if I may, on Romans 7. Something to at least chew on.

Even though Paul says very clearly that the things he is about to write are 'to those who know the law',
the truth is he connecting the Mosaic law, which only concerns Jews with THE LAW..... the one that applies to everyone. And what law is that? The law of sin and death.

And the same results Paul experienced trying to live under the demands of the law of Moses is to be our lot as well, for just as the Old Testament law demanded but did not empower, so does the law of sin and death.

One would think that as Christians, we can skip over Romans 7 and go straight from chapter 6 to chapter 8. Right? Not so. Why? Because as long as we live, this law has sway over us and failure and frustration WILL follows.

Just because we get saved does not mean we get to bypass Romans 7, thinking it does not apply to us. It most certainly does. As it was when the people of God were led into the wilderness, Romans 7 becomes our wilderness we too must pass through. PASS THROUGH. Like them, we were never meant to live there. But to escape, a lesson must first be learned.

What caused the Jews to turn a three week trek into a forty year wandering? Unbelief. It must be identified. It must be seen as sin. And it must be rejected.

I can here people now. LOL."Hey, we have already believed!" Oh, the Jews believed too when the Red Sea swallowed up their enemy. But, self still was in charge and unbelief still lurked.... because they still believed in themselves. Self-confidence. Trusting in their own strength of will. And that had to die before they could enter the Promised Land. Just like us.

What does the law teach us? Be Ye Holy as He is Holy. That does not change when we get saved. God still wants to see us made holy. Multitudes have erred right here, and assumed since they are forgiven, everything else is really not that important. Big mistake.

No, guys. God is serious about our being changed into His likeness. The planter of the vineyard wants fruit. And to those who see this, the natural thing to do is to TRY. It does not take long on this path until they see exactly what Paul was talking about. We MUST be holy, for this is God's will. We CANNOT be holy, for we are weak to the demands of law... and why? Because of our flesh... our OLD MAN.

Remember now, this is important. What is the power of sin? The law! And guess what? It has authority over us as long as we live. A hopeless situation? Not at all. Remember one chapter back? Romans 6? Bingo. Here Paul tells us two truths we need to know.

1) We died when Christ died.

2) We rose with Christ when He rose from the dead.

What is the purpose of all this? Hey, we are not under the law any longer. Why do we have to go through our own wilderness and not be able to go straight to the land of Promise? Simple. Because we have a lesson to learn. Even though we are children of the King, God uses the law to teach us that no matter how hard we try, we cannot walk in victory by OUR efforts. We must be holy.We cannot be holy.

But it is our trying.... and failing.... that the real purpose of the law is revealed. To bring us to the point we not only have no confidence in our flesh, we finally learn to HATE our flesh, our old man. You see, only when we get to that point of brokenness can we do the one thing Paul tells us to do in Romans 6...... reckon ourselves dead to sin.... dead to our own nature.

It is only when we truly have lost all hope in us....in our walking in obedience.... in truly pleasing God, that we can look away from ourselves for God to do for us what we cannot do- to make us holy.

You see, this is God's way to free us from the grip of the Law. We have to die. And praise God. we have!

How do we escape Romans 7?

1. Like Paul, we long to not just be forgiven, but to please God. So we try.... hard.

2. We come to hate our failures until we lose all hope in our efforts to do so.

3. Like the Israelites bitten by snakes, we finally look away from us to heal us of our deadly inescapable sins. As wretched men, We cry out to our deliverer to do for us what we cannot do- change us into the image of His Son and set us free indeed.

Right now, we see multitudes not just living in the defeat of. Romans 7 but actually defending it as 'normal' Christianity. It actually is used to defend sin remaining in our lives. All that is about to change.
Our awakening as to who we are is beginning. After all, we have a wedding to get ready for.

blessings,

Gids

Hi Gids,

I believe Paul gives us direct clues as to what Law he is referring to in Romans 7. Check out verse 7. Also, again in 2 Corinthians 3, again check out verse 7.

Basically he is contrasting the Old Covenant (Exodus 20 and 34:28) with the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31 and Romans 8:1-9). The LAW vs. the (born again of the) SPIRIT. Again, in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11. Ministry of death vs. Ministry of Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi Gids, I had to correct some typos, so you may not have been able to read the correct verse I meant. My bad. LOL

Good night, brother

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

@Gideons300 and @CharismaticLady . . .

Much could be written about R7. I'll do my best to keep this short enough for one post.


Powerful God, Almighty . . . please forgive me if I misrepresent your Holy Word. I ask that if I am wrong that you would correct me through your Word and even through a Holy Servant that may be here within this forum. I pray this in the Name of your Holy Son, Jesus . . . amen.


What I believe is essential for us all to know about R7 is that Paul is not speaking about his current life (at the time of his R7 writing). It would seem unreasonable that as he gives us a description of uncontrollable sin in his life, he speaks of a Nature within himself that is responsible for his Evil thoughts that lead to Evil deeds, which comes from the Mind of the Devil.

· Romans 7:17, 20 NKJV – "But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. . . . Verse 20 . . . "Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." – What is more, Paul actually credits the Sinful Nature as being responsible for his sin in verse 18.

· Romans 7:18 NLT – "And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't."


It would be virtually impossible for Paul to be referring to his current life, a life with the Mind of Christ when we consider what he wrote in Colossians 2:9-15. Within that set of Scripture, we read of his clear teaching that the Sinful Nature is to be cut away and removed, so if the Sinful Nature is removed, there is absolutely no way that he was referencing his current life as written of in R7. Impossible, lest he be 100% in clear contradiction of his own teachings. Do you see it? If the Sinful Nature is removed by the Holy Operation of God, Spiritual Circumcision, how could Paul be referring to a life in R7 as a saved Christian when writing it? If Paul teaches that the Sinful Nature is cut away (Col 2:9-15), and if he teaches that the Law of Moses no longer applies, as it/they are replaced by effectual Spiritual Laws (the Indwelling Laws of the Spirit of Life - Romans 8:2), how could he ever say that it was sin living within him that was causing him to disobey and be utterly confused by it?


First, the Law of Sin and Death had been removed from his heart (the Curse of Adam and Eve); thus, his compulsion to sin was almost immediately defeated, for he was preaching within weeks of being saved, maintaining such self-control that he asked the world to model themselves after himself . . . about 18 times in his writings. Paul was a most Holy and near sinless man. And if he teaches that by the removal of the Law, this renders a person as innocent of breaking written Laws that no longer exist . . . again, why would R7 indicate that he was a saved man at the time of writing that letter?


A person learns to sin less and less because of the effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life, which Paul was expedited in that Sanctifying process. 2nd, if the written Law was no longer applicable, there is no reason for him to refer to himself or make himself appear as an out of control sinner. As Paul wrote about the Laws of the Spirit of Life, this is what it means to "Share in the Divine Nature of Christ." How could Paul's self-description in R7 be the Mind of Christ, or what it looks like to share in the Divine Nature of Christ? It seems wise for a person to look at R7 as one who possesses neither the Mind of Christ nor the Divine Nature of Christ. For, the effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life would never allow such a person to be so utterly out of control of him/herself (after a Season of growth).


These effective, Spiritual Laws release us from worldly laws written upon tablets of stone. The Spiritual Laws, the fourth stage of the Law, are written upon the Holy Tablets of our Hearts.

· 2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NKJV – "You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart."


And this is precisely what Paul is speaking of in Romans 2:28-29.

· Romans 2:28-29 NKJV – "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."


The Circumcision of Christ is the simple lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve. If the Curse has been removed, of what need is the Law of Moses? And if Christ pays the debt for our individual sins, again . . . what use is there for the Law? Therefore, if there is no Law, how can a person be guilty of sin, particularly if the Mind of Satan has been lifted and replaced by the Mind of Christ?

· Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT – "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. . . . Verse 13 . . . "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

· Colossians 2:14-15 KJV – "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."


As Paul speaks of being rescued from the body of sin and death, this seems to be the Law of Sin and Death . . . not his physical body. The Body of Sin and Death is the same as the Body of Sins of the Flesh as referenced in Colossians 2:11.

· Colossians 2:11-12 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."


Now, when reading Romans 7:24-25, it should make more sense as to why Paul was stating that Jesus is the one who will rescue us from this Body of Flesh (the Flesh of Sin, or, the State of Sinful Man).

· Romans 7:24-25 ESV – "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the Law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the Law of sin."


It doesn't seem right to interject that the "body" here, is referencing a physical body, because that just doesn't fit the narrative, point, or purpose of the Bible. Jesus came to earth not to get us out of our body, but to lift the Body of the Sins of the Flesh from our hearts so that we would live forever with Him in Eternity.

John 3:16, while it is a very cool verse, only speaks of the Purpose of Christ, however, it does not describe His Holy Work. Colossians 2:9-15, however, does indeed describe His "Work" . . . and if a person does not understand what His Work is, it will be most easy to slip right past Salvation that only He provides. Thus people will say to Him, "But Lord, I have done so many great works in your name!" And He will say, "Get away from me, you who break God's Laws."

Sorry . . . no proofreading tonight. (Edit - But I did make some serious corrections @ 5am this morning.)

 

[Gideons300]

@Gideons300 and @CharismaticLady . . .

Much could be written about R7. I'll do my best to keep this short enough for one post.


Powerful God, Almighty . . . please forgive me if I misrepresent your Holy Word. I ask that if I am wrong that you would correct me through your Word and even through a Holy Servant that may be here within this forum. I pray this in the Name of your Holy Son, Jesus . . . amen.


What I believe is essential for us all to know about R7 is that Paul is not speaking about his current life (at the time of this writing). It would seem unreasonable that as he gives us a description of uncontrollable sin in his life, he speaks of a Nature within himself that is responsible for his Evil thoughts that lead to Evil deeds, which comes from the Mind of the Devil.

· Romans 7:17, 20 NKJV – "But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. . . . Verse 20 . . . "Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." – What is more, Paul actually credits the Sinful Nature as being responsible for his sin in verse 18.

· Romans 7:18 NLT – "And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't."


It would be virtually impossible for Paul to be referring to his current life, a life with the Mind of Christ when we consider what he wrote in Colossians 2:9-15. Within that set of Scripture, we read of his clear teaching that the Sinful Nature is cut away and removed, so if the Sinful Nature is removed, there is absolutely no way that he was referencing his current life as written of in R7. Impossible, lest he be 100% in clear contradiction of his own teachings. Do you see it? If the Sinful Nature is removed by the Holy Operation of God, Spiritual Circumcision, how could Paul be referring to a life in R7 as a saved Christian when writing it? If Paul teaches that the Sinful Nature is cut away (Col 2:9-15), and if he teaches that the Law of Moses no longer applies, as it/they are replaced by effectual Spiritual Laws (the Indwelling Laws of the Spirit of Life - Romans 8:2), how could he ever say that it was sin living within him that was causing him to disobey and be utterly confused by it?


First, the Law of Sin and Death had been removed; thus, his compulsion to sin was almost immediately defeated (he was preaching within weeks of being saved, maintaining such self-control that he asked the world to model themselves after himself . . . about 18 times in his writings). Paul was a most Holy and near sinless man. And if he teaches that by the removal of the Law, this renders a person as innocent of breaking written Laws that no longer exist . . . again, why would R7 indicate that he was a saved man at the time of writing that letter?


A person learns to sin less and less because of the effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life, which Paul was expedited in that Sanctifying process. 2nd, if the written Law was no longer applicable, there is no reason for him to refer to himself or make himself appear as an out of control sinner. As Paul wrote about the Laws of the Spirit of Life, this is what it means to "Share in the Divine Nature of Christ. How could Paul's self-description in R7 be the Mind of Christ, or what it looks like to share in the Divine Nature of Christ? It is impossible that anyone could ever look up R7 as one who possesses neither the Mind of Christ nor the Divine Nature of Christ. For, the effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life would never allow such a person to be so utterly out of control of him/herself.


These effective, Spiritual Laws release us from worldly laws written upon tablets of stone. The Spiritual Laws, the fourth stage of the Law, are written upon the Holy Tablets of our Hearts.

· 2 Corinthians 3:2-3 NKJV – "You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart."


And this is precisely what Paul is speaking of in Romans 2:28-29.

· Romans 2:28-29 NKJV – "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."


The Circumcision of Christ is the simple lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve. If the Curse has been removed, of what need is the Law of Moses? And if Christ pays the debt for our individual sins, again . . . what use is there for the Law? Therefore, if there is no Law, how can a person be guilty of sin, particularly if the Mind of Satan has been lifted and replaced by the Mind of Christ?

· Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT – "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. . . . Verse 13 . . . "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

· Colossians 2:14-15 KJV – "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."


As Paul speaks of being rescued from the body of sin and death, this seems to be the Law of Sin and Death . . . not his physical body. The Body of Sin and Death is the same as the Body of Sins of the Flesh as references in Colossians 2:11.

· Colossians 2:11-12 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."


Now, when reading Romans 7:24-25, it should make more sense as to why Paul was stating that Jesus is the one who will rescue us from this Body of Flesh (the Flesh of Sin, or, the State of Sinful Man).

· Romans 7:24-25 ESV – "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the Law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the Law of sin."


It doesn't seem right to interject that the "body" here, is referencing a physical body, because that just doesn't fit the narrative, point, or purpose of the Bible. Jesus came to earth not to get us out of our body, but to lift the Body of the Sins of the Flesh from our hearts so that we would live forever with Him in Eternity.


Sorry . . . no proofreading tonight.

Such wisdom, and a gentle spirit. You are a blessing here and to me specifically. My prayer is that the misunderstanding concerning this chapter that affects and hinders so many with limiting God's working in their lives be removed.

What will bring this about? Hunger for more of God. The clear understanding that you two have is a gift from God but it was not brought on by your wisdom, but by your brokenness brought about by your hungering and thirsting for righteousness.... and failing.......and this is exactly what that critical chapter displays.

Paul was not satisfied with being forgiven and declared 'righteous', whether it was for a year with the offering of a sacrifice under the Mosaic Law or because of Jesus's ultimate sacrifice. He wanted to abide, to please God with every thought, every action. He wanted a deep relationship with the God of the universe.

It is when tries to obey with all of His heart...... and fails..... that he finally sees that there is but one option left..... to die. Not by effort, but by faith! Romans 7 is showing us the narrow way, the single bridge, connecting Romans 6 to Romans 8 and you cannot walk in the joy snd power of Romans 8 by applying head knowledge of the truths of Romans 6. Romans 7 shows us that it has to be HEART knowledge and praise God, He has given us new hearts!

God longs for our fellowship. Sin prevents it. And glory to God, He has given us a way to be kept from sin's grip. When we finally arrive at the point that we hate our old nature, frustrated by our inability to please and obey God, it is then that the scales fall from our eyes to see the depth of salvation grace actually provides us..... new natures that we all have been given.

The problem has been that we do not understand that they cannot profit us in this life unless they are put on by an audacious act of faith..... desperate faith. And in order to do that, we must put off our old natures, natures that may want to obey but have no power to do so. Natures we finally see as the enemy. Natures that we finally come to hate.

That is what Paul was sharing about in Romans 7. And I am convinced that in these last days, His sheep, every single one, will awaken to this truth, put on their new natures and discover the joy of being "caused" to walk in full obedience by the Holy Spirit inside us.

Thank you both for your wisdom and your hearts. I am blessed beyond measure.

Gideon

 

[Addy]

@Gideons300 How lovely that you have found yourself a nest of like-minded believers.

I gave up on my Don't feed the ducks sign... Decided to take on a new position sitting in the meadow with the Shepherd.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Such wisdom, and a gentle spirit. You are a blessing here and to me specifically. My prayer is that the misunderstanding concerning this chapter that affects and hinders so many with limiting God's working in their lives be removed.

What will bring this about? Hunger for more of God. The clear understanding that you two have is a gift from God but it was not brought on by your wisdom, but by your brokenness brought about by your hungering and thirsting for righteousness.... and failing.......and this is exactly what that critical chapter displays.

Paul was not satisfied with being forgiven and declared 'righteous', whether it was for a year with the offering of a sacrifice under the Mosaic Law or because of Jesus's ultimate sacrifice. He wanted to abide, to please God with every thought, every action. He wanted a deep relationship with the God of the universe.

It is when tries to obey with all of His heart...... and fails..... that he finally sees that there is but one option left..... to die. Not by effort, but by faith! Romans 7 is showing us the narrow way, the single bridge, connecting Romans 6 to Romans 8 and you cannot walk in the joy snd power of Romans 8 by applying head knowledge of the truths of Romans 6. Romans 7 shows us that it has to be HEART knowledge and praise God, He has given us new hearts!

God longs for our fellowship. Sin prevents it. And glory to God, He has given us a way to be kept from sin's grip. When we finally arrive at the point that we hate our old nature, frustrated by our inability to please and obey God, it is then that the scales fall from our eyes to see the depth of salvation grace actually provides us..... new natures that we all have been given.

The problem has been that we do not understand that they cannot profit us in this life unless they are put on by an audacious act of faith..... desperate faith. And in order to do that, we must put off our old natures, natures that may want to obey but have no power to do so. Natures we finally see as the enemy. Natures that we finally come to hate.

That is what Paul was sharing about in Romans 7. And I am convinced that in these last days, His sheep, every single one, will awaken to this truth, put on their new natures and discover the joy of being "caused" to walk in full obedience by the Holy Spirit inside us.

Thank you both for your wisdom and your hearts. I am blessed beyond measure.

Gideon

You know, I really like reading your words because we seem to believe the same thing . . . BUT, you have a wisdom that allows you to write, or speak about them in a way that I have not heard. And to me, that is like gold! The last thing that I want is to be stuck within my own head, believing only what I believe. My goodness, that is the LAST thing that I want. I'm not interested in being right as much as I am being told that I am right by God Himself.

I have written much in my life, and because of my many writings, the process frightens me! Why? Because as I learn and grow, I find that too many of my writings have been wrong. And if what I write and "teach" is wrong, then you all might as well call me Jeroboam. Do you see why I try to be humble? For if Jeroboam was placed into a "deep sleep," then it means that I, too, was under that deep sleep. (Lord, God . . . please don't allow me to remain in that sleep!)

And you are a particular help to me. You put ideas together that help me to see a deeper Truth, but also help to balance out what I believe. It is so important to have a balanced belief system.

Thank you, good sir. And by the way, I have been making even more edits of my upper post. My edits are so drastic, that I can honestly say that I should not have posted when I did (last night). For anyone who read "it," please forgive me. Now, I believe it is "safe." :)

 

[Gideons300]

@Gideons300 How lovely that you have found yourself a nest of like-minded believers.

I gave up on my Don't feed the ducks sign... Decided to take on a new position sitting in the meadow with the Shepherd.

My dear old friend! So good to see you, dear Addy.

Gids

 

[Addy]

LOL @ Dear Old Friend... Nice to see a familiar face. @Gideons300

 

[Not me]

Such wisdom, and a gentle spirit. You are a blessing here and to me specifically. My prayer is that the misunderstanding concerning this chapter that affects and hinders so many with limiting God's working in their lives be removed.

What will bring this about? Hunger for more of God. The clear understanding that you two have is a gift from God but it was not brought on by your wisdom, but by your brokenness brought about by your hungering and thirsting for righteousness.... and failing.......and this is exactly what that critical chapter displays.

Paul was not satisfied with being forgiven and declared 'righteous', whether it was for a year with the offering of a sacrifice under the Mosaic Law or because of Jesus's ultimate sacrifice. He wanted to abide, to please God with every thought, every action. He wanted a deep relationship with the God of the universe.

It is when tries to obey with all of His heart...... and fails..... that he finally sees that there is but one option left..... to die. Not by effort, but by faith! Romans 7 is showing us the narrow way, the single bridge, connecting Romans 6 to Romans 8 and you cannot walk in the joy snd power of Romans 8 by applying head knowledge of the truths of Romans 6. Romans 7 shows us that it has to be HEART knowledge and praise God, He has given us new hearts!

God longs for our fellowship. Sin prevents it. And glory to God, He has given us a way to be kept from sin's grip. When we finally arrive at the point that we hate our old nature, frustrated by our inability to please and obey God, it is then that the scales fall from our eyes to see the depth of salvation grace actually provides us..... new natures that we all have been given.

The problem has been that we do not understand that they cannot profit us in this life unless they are put on by an audacious act of faith..... desperate faith. And in order to do that, we must put off our old natures, natures that may want to obey but have no power to do so. Natures we finally see as the enemy. Natures that we finally come to hate.

That is what Paul was sharing about in Romans 7. And I am convinced that in these last days, His sheep, every single one, will awaken to this truth, put on their new natures and discover the joy of being "caused" to walk in full obedience by the Holy Spirit inside us.

Thank you both for your wisdom and your hearts. I am blessed beyond measure.

Gideon

Be blessed in the walking in newness of life....

A friend and brother in Christ, Not me

 

[CharismaticLady]

Such wisdom, and a gentle spirit. You are a blessing here and to me specifically. My prayer is that the misunderstanding concerning this chapter that affects and hinders so many with limiting God's working in their lives be removed.

What will bring this about? Hunger for more of God. The clear understanding that you two have is a gift from God but it was not brought on by your wisdom, but by your brokenness brought about by your hungering and thirsting for righteousness.... and failing.......and this is exactly what that critical chapter displays.

Paul was not satisfied with being forgiven and declared 'righteous', whether it was for a year with the offering of a sacrifice under the Mosaic Law or because of Jesus's ultimate sacrifice. He wanted to abide, to please God with every thought, every action. He wanted a deep relationship with the God of the universe.

It is when tries to obey with all of His heart...... and fails..... that he finally sees that there is but one option left..... to die. Not by effort, but by faith! Romans 7 is showing us the narrow way, the single bridge, connecting Romans 6 to Romans 8 and you cannot walk in the joy snd power of Romans 8 by applying head knowledge of the truths of Romans 6. Romans 7 shows us that it has to be HEART knowledge and praise God, He has given us new hearts!

God longs for our fellowship. Sin prevents it. And glory to God, He has given us a way to be kept from sin's grip. When we finally arrive at the point that we hate our old nature, frustrated by our inability to please and obey God, it is then that the scales fall from our eyes to see the depth of salvation grace actually provides us..... new natures that we all have been given.

The problem has been that we do not understand that they cannot profit us in this life unless they are put on by an audacious act of faith..... desperate faith. And in order to do that, we must put off our old natures, natures that may want to obey but have no power to do so. Natures we finally see as the enemy. Natures that we finally come to hate.

That is what Paul was sharing about in Romans 7. And I am convinced that in these last days, His sheep, every single one, will awaken to this truth, put on their new natures and discover the joy of being "caused" to walk in full obedience by the Holy Spirit inside us.

Thank you both for your wisdom and your hearts. I am blessed beyond measure.

Gideon

Yes! That's it! Thank you! Romans 7 shows us the futility of head knowledge alone. It is when we stop patting ourselves on the back by how many commandments we keep to the letter, that we see that one commandment of hidden greed of coveting (vs.7) that makes us guilty of all of them. It is the one we can hide from everyone, except God. And it is He that has the keys to the pearly gates.

We know that throughout our life we may have stolen a piece of candy at the store and then asked for forgiveness, only to do the same thing the next time we are at the store. Or taken home office supplies when we are older. The desire is still there. Confessing a sin that we repeat is not repentance.

So, how do we free ourselves of that hidden sin of coveting? We can't. Oy vey! It is there, along with the lusts and hate. What we finally can do is be honest with ourselves that we have these drives and inner sins that we know we will keep repeating if God doesn't intervene. That is when we can truly repent and declare that only Jesus can free us from this burden of evil thoughts and desires. Jesus is listening, and has been waiting for this integrity of heart. Only then will He crucify the old nature with Himself, and raise us up with a completely new nature, free from the burden of sin. (When it happened to me, I actually looked at my feet to see if I was floating above the ground. I felt light as a feather.)

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Yes! That's it! Thank you! Romans 7 shows us the futility of head knowledge alone. It is when we stop patting ourselves on the back by how many commandments we keep to the letter, that we see that one commandment of hidden greed of coveting (vs.7) that makes us guilty of all of them. It is the one we can hide from everyone, except God. And it is He that has the keys to the pearly gates.

We know that throughout our life we may have stolen a piece of candy at the store and then asked for forgiveness, only to do the same thing the next time we are at the store. Or taken home office supplies when we are older. The desire is still there. Confessing a sin that we repeat is not repentance.

So, how do we free ourselves of that hidden sin of coveting? We can't. Oy vey! It is there, along with the lusts and hate. What we finally can do is be honest with ourselves that we have these drives and inner sins that we know we will keep repeating if God doesn't intervene. That is when we can truly repent and declare that only Jesus can free us from this burden of evil thoughts and desires. Jesus is listening, and has been waiting for this integrity of heart. Only then will He crucify the old nature with Himself, and raise us up with a completely new nature, free from the burden of sin. (When it happened to me, I actually looked at my feet to see if I was floating above the ground. I felt light as a feather.)

Isn't that something? You could actually FEEL the moment when the Sin Nature was lifted from you, just as Adam and Eve certainly felt the application of the Sin Nature when it had been grafted into their Hearts. Instantly, Adam and Eve suffered from three of the Devil's major tools . . . fear, shame, and guilt. They felt it instantly, and though the Bible does not tell us, they hated it . . . no doubt. Can "you" imagine what it must have felt like to go from being perfect in thought, to filled with fear, shame, and guilt? It is difficult for us to imagine because we were born this way. Therefore, when a member of the very small and Holy Remnant goes through this experience, we too, feel the difference. So, if we never feel this Holy difference, it means that we have yet to actually and Truly Transform.

Romans 12:2 NKJV - "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

Romans 12:2 isn't merely interesting reading, but it demonstrates a Holy and Effectual Transformation that does not come from within, but from without. This Transformation comes by the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life (Romans 8:2) . . . Laws that Cause a specific and desired Effect.

Now we can understand why Moses said what he said so long ago about the Indwelling Holy Spirit:

Numbers 11:29 NLT - "But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

Why would he say this? Because it was extremely difficult work to Lead Israel who did not have the Spirit of God within them, leading and guiding them as the Spirit was leading and guiding Moses.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Isn't that something? You could actually FEEL the moment when the Sin Nature was lifted from you, just as Adam and Eve certainly felt the application of the Sin Nature when it had been grafted into their Hearts. Instantly, Adam and Eve suffered from three of the Devil's major tools . . . fear, shame, and guilt. They felt it instantly, and though the Bible does not tell us, they hated it . . . no doubt. Can "you" imagine what it must have felt like to go from being perfect in thought, to filled with fear, shame, and guilt? It is difficult for us to imagine because we were born this way. Therefore, when a member of the very small and Holy Remnant goes through this experience, we too, feel the difference. So, if we never feel this Holy difference, it means that we have yet to actually and Truly Transform.

Romans 12:2 NKJV - "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

Romans 12:2 isn't merely interesting reading, but it demonstrates a Holy and Effectual Transformation that does not come from within, but from without. This Transformation comes by the Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life (Romans 8:2) . . . Laws that Cause a specific and desired Effect.

Now we can understand why Moses said what he said so long ago about the Indwelling Holy Spirit:

Numbers 11:29 NLT - "But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit upon them all!"

Why would he say this? Because it was extremely difficult work to Lead Israel who did not have the Spirit of God within them, leading and guiding them as the Spirit was leading and guiding Moses.

Yes, this is why Jesus said we MUST be born again. And Paul said that we are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells us. And if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do no belong to Him. It is much more than Jesus blood merely covering our burden of sin, while we still carry it. It is complete freeing us of that burden of a sin nature with all its heavy chains and tentacles.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Yes, this is why Jesus said we MUST be born again. And Paul said that we are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells us. And if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do no belong to Him. It is much more than Jesus blood merely covering our burden of sin, while we still carry it. It is complete freeing us of that burden of a sin nature with all its heavy chains and tentacles.

Beautifully said! You're going to understand this, Miss Charismaticlady . . . when we read the word "flesh" throughout the Bible, we need to figure out if it is the State of Sinful Man, or if it is referring to our physical bodies. Until we get that understood, understanding the Bible will be nearly impossible. "Flesh" is one of the single most important Keywords in the entire Bible to know and distinguish. I'm still learning!!!!!

 

[Gideons300]

Yes! That's it! Thank you! Romans 7 shows us the futility of head knowledge alone. It is when we stop patting ourselves on the back by how many commandments we keep to the letter, that we see that one commandment of hidden greed of coveting (vs.7) that makes us guilty of all of them. It is the one we can hide from everyone, except God. And it is He that has the keys to the pearly gates.

We know that throughout our life we may have stolen a piece of candy at the store and then asked for forgiveness, only to do the same thing the next time we are at the store. Or taken home office supplies when we are older. The desire is still there. Confessing a sin that we repeat is not repentance.

So, how do we free ourselves of that hidden sin of coveting? We can't. Oy vey! It is there, along with the lusts and hate. What we finally can do is be honest with ourselves that we have these drives and inner sins that we know we will keep repeating if God doesn't intervene. That is when we can truly repent and declare that only Jesus can free us from this burden of evil thoughts and desires. Jesus is listening, and has been waiting for this integrity of heart. Only then will He crucify the old nature with Himself, and raise us up with a completely new nature, free from the burden of sin. (When it happened to me, I actually looked at my feet to see if I was floating above the ground. I felt light as a feather.)

What an insightful post. If I may be so bold, I interject one observation on your statement that said:

"Only then will He crucify the old nature with Himself, and raise us up with a completely new nature, free from the burden of sin."

In the way I understand it, those who have truly accepted the sacrifice of Jesus are made new creatures with the old man crucified the very moment they are saved. Why do they not immediately act new? Why then do they still fight temptation and yield to it?

It is simply because in the kingdom of God, everything is activated by faith, and this is no different. It is when we totally look away from our goodness, our strength, our resolve, our will power, and confess that we will fail every time without a miracle, that we are finally prepared to look to Him solely for our deliverance from our old man. It is then that God breaths on our faith so that we might walk on the water to Him and the life of overcoming victory so all so desperately need.

The amazing truth is we ARE new creatures.... right now, this very moment. We are asked but one thing. Believe it. If indeed it is not true until we believe it, then our deliverance depends upon the strength of our faith. But praise God. we do not believe it hard enough and then it becomes truth. We can believe with even weak faith if we are desperate and hungry enough because it already IS true!

Why does Paul ask us to reckon ourselves as dead to sin and alive unto Him? Because we first KNOW that it already is an accomplished fact. Thus, even the weakest among us, the failures in the race to be 'good Christians', can step our and grab what God has done for them.

This is exactly what the Word tells us about the highway of holiness. (Note: It is not the highway TO holiness, praise God) What does God tell us? These are some of the most profoundly promising verses in the entire Bible, especially for those who want to obey but who are still trapped in Romans 7.

"Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there.

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

Isaiah 35:3-10

Is that not simply and utterly wonderful? This is what God has shown me is about to happen to His church, His bride. Yes, the world is waxing worse and worse. What better way to light a path for true seekers in the final harvest to follow than for His children.... all of them.. to shine like diamonds on the blackest of backgrounds?

i love what Isaiah said about this happening in the midst of the "habitation of dragons." Let the darkness rage. All the better to shine forth as children of light, leading others to the depths of the goodness and grace and longsuffering of our amazing God.

blessings to you, C.L. I am so glad you are here.

Gideon

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

"Only then will He crucify the old nature with Himself, and raise us up with a completely new nature, free from the burden of sin."

Where there is no Law, there is no Transgression. That is the ONLY way to be freed of all sin. And when we DO sin, we have an advocate (who paid the dept, once and for all, for sin). That is what CL was showing you about the Law as it was discussed in the early part of R7.

Romans 4:14-15 NKJV - "For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression."

1 John 2:1 NIV - "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."