SinSinSin

[Ferris Bueller]

Must be counting God as a neighbor, eh?

To love God is to love your neighbor. To love your neighbor is to love God. They are inseparable. That's why the second command is like unto the first.

 

[justbyfaith]

Wow such holiness. such spiritual excellence! Such grand Holy Spirit discernment! Bull! Such pride, such arrogance and such puffed up flesh!
1. You said you obey the law.
2. Keeping the feasts is part of teh law
3. Abstaining from pork is part of the law!
4. Yet you refuse to answer whether yo observe these parts of the law when you trumpet how spiritual you are and obey the law!

In Romans 7:6, it should be clear that we are delivered from the letter of the law in order that we might become obedient to the spirit of it.

In Romans 8:4 it becomes clear that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit; regardless of whether or not they wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin or blow the trumpet on the new moon.

The spiritual mind is at peace with God for it is subject to the law of God and cannot be otherwise (inverse of Romans 8:7).

Now what was that about the law arousing sin in a born again person?

Romans 5:20 tells us that the law came in order that the offence might abound. But I think that I agree with you that this effect does not work itself out in the life of a believer.

Maybe you were under such a law at some point but I was never under such a law...

Even as Gentile, you were under the law before you came to Christ....for the law is going to, in the final day, declare all the world to be guilty before God (Romans 3:19-20). Also, in Galatians 3:23, it is written that before faith came, you were kept under the law.

Even if all you knew of the law was the Golden Rule.

YOu spout all your obedience to the law- but obedience does not save us nor make us righteous!

It does not save us or make us righteous....however, it is the doers of the law who will be justified (Romans 2:13).

I think a there are people who read that Christ fulfills the law in us, and they are thinking it means through us. Jesus didn't save us to be law keepers, any more than caterpillars turn into butterflys so that they can crawl on leaves eating them

Jesus did, in fact, save us unto obedience. When we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will be violated by us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). The love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5); and therefore the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

 

[Waiting on him]

Everybody at some point in time is under the condemnation of the law for not keeping it. Prior to having faith in Christ there is only one law from God by which all are condemned. Condemned for not being uncircumcised. Condemned for not entering into Sabbath rest, etc.

Romans 3:19
19 ...whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

See, the whole world is who is under the condemnation of the law. That's you, that's me, that's everybody before we have faith in Christ. The whole world is under the condemnation of the law, because the whole world does not obey the law—the one and only law by which mankind is judged.

You seem to be having a very hard time distinguishing between what is spoken to a Jew and what is spoken to a gentile.

 

[Waiting on him]

In Romans 7:6, it should be clear that we are delivered from the letter of the law in order that we might become obedient to the spirit of it.

In Romans 8:4 it becomes clear that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit; regardless of whether or not they wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin or blow the trumpet on the new moon.

The spiritual mind is at peace with God for it is subject to the law of God and cannot be otherwise (inverse of Romans 8:7).



Romans 5:20 tells us that the law came in order that the offence might abound. But I think that I agree with you that this effect does not work itself out in the life of a believer.



Even as Gentile, you were under the law before you came to Christ....for the law is going to, in the final day, declare all the world to be guilty before God (Romans 3:19-20). Also, in Galatians 3:23, it is written that before faith came, you were kept under the law.

Even if all you knew of the law was the Golden Rule.



It does not save us or make us righteous....however, it is the doers of the law who will be justified (Romans 2:13).



Jesus did, in fact, save us unto obedience. When we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will be violated by us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). The love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5); and therefore the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

The only knowledge I have of the mosaic law is what you purport.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think a there are people who read that Christ fulfills the law in us, and they are thinking it means through us.

Christ did not, and does not, fulfill 'love your neighbor as yourself' for you. That debt of law always remains outstanding for his people to fulfill.

Romans 13:8
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another...

See, the requirement to love one another is a continuing debt. A continuing debt that gets paid through us via the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Contrast that with the debt of law regarding a Passover Lamb. That debt of law gets paid one time, once and for all for a person when they receive the Sacrifice of Christ through faith.

Jesus didn't save us to be law keepers, any more than caterpillars turn into butterflys so that they can crawl on leaves eating them.

Much love!

That's not what the Bible says.......

Titus 2:13-14
...Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

Ephesians 2:10
...we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[justbyfaith]

The only knowledge I have of the mosaic law is what you purport.

It doesn't make you any less under it if you have not yet been saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You seem to be having a very hard time distinguishing between what is spoken to a Jew and what is spoken to a gentile.

What is it about the 'whole world' being under the condemnation of the law and accountable to God that you do not understand?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Biblically, the law ended when Jesus rose from the dead! Jesus fulfilled all the demands of the Old Covenant and like it is written it is obsolete!

I understand how he fulfilled all the demands for worship and sanctity found in the old covenant. How did he fulfill the demand of the old covenant for us to 'love your neighbor as yourself'? When you don't do that, it is not fulfilled. As I have just shown in a post, the debt of law to 'love your neighbor as yourself is never satisfied. It is a continuing debt of law (Romans 13:8). There's always someone in the next moment that we are indebted to love. That command is never fulfilled and set aside as obsolete and no longer needed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is a difference in description, but neither are from Spirit. Sin is sin is sin.

As always, let's be Bereans and test that assertion against the scriptures.....

Psalm 19:12-13
Forgive my hidden faults.
13Keep your servant also from willful sins

David makes a distinction between sins and willful sins. 'Sin is sin is sin' is not true at all within the context we've been discussing that. There are sins, and there are also willful sins.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And you really really think that trying keep OT Law, lists of rules, will improve your love?

Much love!

No, God's love in you (as opposed to our selfish, emotional feelings of attraction) will improve your keeping of the OT list of rules. Of course that means the 'lists of rules' that remain to be literally kept by the people of God. You know, do not steal, do not hate, do not covet, etc.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Christ is also the accepted keeping and fulfillment of the Mosaic Day of Atonement too.

How so?

I accidently hit the post button, lol. I meant to format and save your post so I can fill in the answers later. I'm dead tired right now and wanted to wait till later to do it.

So I'll fill in the answers later. Stay tuned. Thanks.
These are good questions.

The brazen altar was fulfilled at Calvary. Do you know of any further activity of Christ as High Priest representing the other aspects of atonement?

 

[justbyfaith]

I understand how he fulfilled all the demands for worship and sanctity found in the old covenant. How did he fulfill the demand of the old covenant for us to 'love your neighbor as yourself'? When you don't do that, it is not fulfilled. As I have just shown in a post, the debt of law to 'love your neighbor as yourself is never satisfied. It is a continuing debt of law (Romans 13:8). There's always someone in the next moment that we are indebted to love. That command is never fulfilled and set aside as obsolete and no longer needed.

However, the Holy Ghost perpetually will shed abroad His love in your heart from the moment you receive Him into your heart.

So, there is a sense in which the love of the Lord is fulfilled in the life of the believer.

Once that love is shed abroad in you, it will never leave.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I'm actually working hard tonight...my back hurts....it is a work of faith and a labour of love.

And of course I am also "resting in His grace"...because I am not working or labouring for myself but for others...and that makes all the diiference.

That being said, I think that I will call it a night...

Make sure you Repent of all of your Sins that you committed today, before you go to “ SleepyTown” ....If you die in your sleep and there is even just “ one” sin left upon your “RepentanceLedger” , you will drop into Hell! ( in accordance with your Doctrine)

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The Bible says:

Galatians 2:16 KJVS
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I am not seeking to be justified by the works of the law. I have been justified by faith in the blood of Christ.

However, now I am minded to walk worthy of the gospel:

Ephesians 4:1 KJVS
[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called

2 Thessalonians 1:11 KJVS
[11] Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling

The question is:

Are you also working to be counted worthy of God’s calling?

Again.....you Ain’t “ Worthy”...... you can WALK Worthy......and you can be COUNTED Worthy if you do like Abraham did. BELIEVE God.

 

[HisLife]

I see that you are talking to @Michiah-Imla here.

But I know that I have not rejected the only sacrifice for sins that God has made for me; and I also do place my complete hope in what Jesus did for me on the Cross.

That being said, I know also that His sacrifice didn't only justify me (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctified me (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses me from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Now, do you believe that the blood has been applied to your life, @HisLife?

What did it do in your life?

When it is applied, can it justify and not also sanctify and cleanse you at the same time?

Can it be applied and not perform all of its functions?

Food for thought.

Your answer is a bit Strange and defensive especially when the post wasn't even to you, I get the impression you don't believe what you wrote

Jesus Blood Does everything The life is in the blood,... justified by His blood (Romans 5:9), cleanses us from all sin. (I John 1:7). We Overcome (Revelation 12:11) Removes the curse of the Law(Galatians 3:13) redemption through His blood (Ephesians 1:7) Brought into the covenant By his
Blood (Ephesians 2:12-13) Been Declared Righteous (Corinthians 5:21) To be honest I could go in for a long time

I think this verse shows your error Our Sanctification is through Jesus
By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

So, of course, The Blood can perform all its Functions, You are the one that presumes otherwise, Even our good works Are because he works through us, It is all of him He gets the glory, That's where I think you are in error you try and take Credit, And you don't Really Trust In nothing but the Blood You have to try to add something of yourself

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. Colossians 1:18

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There is no yes or no answer to such a question. I will say that the Lord will be your judge and not I.

I do believe that if a believer has not been circumcised spiritually, that righteousness is still imputed to him (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 4:11)...

So that would make ithe answer "no"....you would not go to hell..

On the other hand, those who commit sin are of the devil (1 John 3:8) and have not been born of God (1 John 3:9)...

And that would make the answer a "yes"...you would go to hell.

Where I do not have the perfect answer I will leave it up to the Lord.

As for you, I think that you would be in folly to think that it is alright for you to let out the F-bomb at any given moment. I would say that you should not take any chances on this; but that you should cultivate the fruit of temperance early so that if such an occasion ever did arise, you would not let out an F-bomb but would instead praise the Lord for the fellowship of His sufferings (Philippians 3:10).

For the Bible tells us what we ought to do..."In everything give thanks." (1 Thessalonians 5:18).

A key for your understanding might be in Romans 4:20-22; where it speaks of justification for the one who, like Abraham, does not waver at the promise of the Lord in unbelief but gives all glory to Him and believes that what He has promised He is able also to perform.

There are certain promises in holy scripture that I believe this applies to...such as 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 john 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11.

I hope that you will look up each one of these and see that the doctrine of entire sanctification is biblical and that if you believe that God is able to perform these promises, you are justified even as Abraham according to Romans 4:20-22. And that this is what the beginning of Romans 4 is also referring to.

However, I will say this....that if you have not yet obtained that second benefit, righteousness is still imputed to you if you believe that the Lord is able to do it in you.

And therefore if you are desiring to be sanctified wholly and are placing your hope in the Lord for that to take place in your life, you will not go to hell in such a situation even though you did let out the F-bomb.

But if you have spurned God's promise and have entered into unbelief concerning it....I do not see you as going to heaven if you committed such a sin on your dying day.

Because as you have said, unbelief is the thing that places people in hell and not sin...and therefore I believe that the Lord will judge you by your own words.

You have asked a tough question and I am not certain that I have answered it adequately enough...but I hope that it is enough for the "newbie" to see beyond anything that might be wrong about my answer.

I would even ask the "newbie" to take my answer with a grain of salt....because I am not perfectly confident that I have answered with everything in the most correct way. But I have answered to the best of my ability considering that you have asked a hard question.

And maybe you will even be able to correct me if I am wrong (please use holy scripture).

God bless you , my Worthy Foe.....you “ DO” try.... I HAVE to grant you THAT.....I think that you get all “ tangled up” because of your False Premise.You are simply “ Barking Up the Wrong Tree “ .....working on a recipe for making a pie , when you are actually in a Best Cake Contest....
According to Paul....come Judgement we will be Judged according to “ HIS GOSPEL” ( Romans 2:16) That Gospel deals with your FAITH —- no mention of “ how you did “ Behavior- Wise.....no mention of your Repentance Performance.
Here are the Two Things that will matter that Day to determine whether you go to to Heaven or Hell:
Jesus died for your Sins. Did you Believe that? If you really BELIEVED it , you would have Proven that by RESTING in that Truth.....Did you live a life of Worrying about your Salvation ? Worry is the opposite of Trust......and what I want to know on this DAY of JUDGEMENT is THIS .....were you “ Trying to get Saved” or where you “Trusting to get Saved?” I already know the answer ...”
( God still speaking here ) “ Those guys that were trying or working to get Saved? I heard from them earlier and they made one heck of a good case! They pleaded, “Hey, didn’t WE do this and didn’t WE do that? We lived “ good lives” and when we messed up we Repented ! Of course, not being blessed with “ Super Memories “ a few of the teeny- weeny Sins inevitably “ fell through the cracks “, but shucks, we did the best that we could! Now, Give us what we deserve !
And God did . “ Depart from me , I NEVER knew you”
The second part of Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Him by Jesus personally) that you will be asked about on that Day is this.....did you Believe that Jesus rose from the dead ? That would be a Miracle if that happened — and it DID happen.Once again, God is inquiring into your FAITH ( see anything about Repentance or Performance yet? ) To Believe a Miracle, FAITH is Required.Remember what God said about Faith?
“Without Faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God”
“ The RIGHTEOUS shall LIVE by FAITH......not sin, repent, sin repent , sin repent ad nauseam....
“ It is by Grace ( the Love and Mercy Of God) that you are Saved , through FAITH “
Wanna be ready come Judgement Day? Do as ordered in Hebrews 3 and 4 ....REST in the Gospel .The Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4.......Jesus Really DID die for all of those Sins you fret that you are going to be Damned for. If Jesus died for all of you sins—- what sins are left over that you could be damned for?
Turn to God ( repent) with Faith in Jesus Christ Plus NOTHING and see what God will do in your life .....you ever hear of “ flop sweat?” You don’t want that on Judgement Day! The way to prevent that is to REST in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace......If you ain’t “Resting”..... you are “ Working”.....
The Gospel you will be tested by is NOT what “ WE” did for God ....It is all about what “ GOD ” did for us.....Believe it and make sure you Rest in it.....God Bless.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

1. Repent
2. Believe
but no number 3. Is that correct? Endurance is not necessary, correct?[/QUOTE]

Endurance is MANDATORY.......whatever God demands, God Provides...... “ I will finish the work that “ I” Started “....... the monkey is on His Back .....HE put it there....not me...I don’t worry about it

As far as your “ Endurance” is concerned.....once again God’s got us covered....
1John5:5....”Who is it that conquers the world ( endures) .....it is he that Believes that Jesus is the Son Of God. “ Case closed.....lol....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It would seem from the following verse and your take on it that you think the gospel is...

1. Repent
2. Believe
but no number 3. Is that correct? Endurance is not necessary, correct?

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.....

Colossians 1:21-22

And this is where the OSAS teaching plants its flag of truth. Case closed. If we died when Christ died, and He has reconciled us to God and not only that but has also presented us to God as holy, unblameable and unreprovable in His sight, that pretty well sums it up, correct? There is but one problem.... the next verse. How I pray we read it and accept what it says, for this is most definitely a part of the gospel.

.... If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

Colossians 1:23

Guys, I understand why OSAS is so appealing. We live in fleshly bodies and are weak, and in moments of weakness we can slip into sin. To know our names are still written in the Lamb's book of life regardless of our actions brings us great assurance. And God wants us to be assured, for unless we are assured, rest is impossible.

But our assurance cannot come from a doctrine, or a one time prayer. It must come from God Himself, and the assurance He wants for us can only come if there is a way to remain obedient.

So whst can we do? We disobey at times. Self still overrules at times. And that guys, is the truth God shared with me 14 years ago now. He can.... and He WILL cause us to obey Him and all we have to do is to believe.... reckon.... that the old us.... self.... does not need to be tied up or killed. It IS dead.

more to come....

blessings to all,

Gideon

I believe in OSAS because Jesus said that BB had “ crossed over from death into Life.” How was that accomplished? Simple.I did the Will Of God.I did not believe in myself ....I “Believed In ONE That He sent”
Here is all that I need to Prove OSAS.....unless Jesus is a Liar.....do you think Jesus is a Liar? Here is what He said in John 5:24......”Whoever hears My Word and Believes who sent me HAS Eternal Life and will NEVER come under Condemnation”.......
When somebody persuades me that “ Never “ does not mean “ Never” , then I will renounce OSAS....
Let me see you give it your best shot to squirm your way out of John 5:24...... history shows that you will simply avoid this verse and quickly change the subject......what are YOU going to do with that verse? Many people are watching .........

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Paul is the one who said that love is the fulfilling of the law, and and that all the commandments are kept this way (Romans 13:10).

And Jesus said:

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

I believe Paul and Jesus on what the law is, not you.

They DEFINATELY know the Law! I suspect that they also Know the Following .....”Christ is the END of the LAW for Righteous “....
Have you actually ever “ READ” the Bible ? This is so much Christianity 101! You behave “ as if ignorance were a Virtue” .....what are you even “ Doing” here? You would not recognize “ rightly Dividing” if it came up and bit you on yourA**.........

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You said you obey the law.[/QUOTE]

If you “ obey the Law....that would make you “Righteous “ , wouldn’t it. Self - Righteous is all....you make Paul a Liar .AND Jesus.
Jesus said, using Paul as His spokeman.....” There is NO ONE that is “ Righteous”—— no, not ONE”
Please get an easy to read Bible and actually READ it .....you are a walking embarrassment....I pray that all Newbies know that you are as Blind as a man can be....