SinSinSin

[ChristisGod]

Not withstanding your froward language (which speaks volumes); It is written that the law is not made void by faith (Romans 3:31).

The law is not voided.

But through Christ we now do works that have no law against them:

Galatians 5:22-24 KJVS
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

This is what is meant by “the end of the law”, because those that are Christ’s do works that have no law against them.

It’s kinda like someone who doesn’t drive; traffic laws will never be violated by him because he simply does not drive a car.

Your demeanor reeks of the flesh. You need to understand that they that are indeed saved have crucified the flesh (as the scripture says).

It is quite apparent that you have not crucified the flesh.

The A,B,C's of the Law!

Bible 101

A)1st Covenant was made obsolete

Hebrews 8:13- By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Hebrews 10:1-5
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3 But in those sacrifices, there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

Hebrews 10:11-14
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 10:15-18
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.” 18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

Hebrews 9:15-18
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

B)The Law was abolished

Ephesians 2:11-22
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Galatians 3:21-26
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

2 Corinthians 3:2-11
You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

Colossians 2:13-14
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.



C)Saved by Grace through Faith apart from works of the law.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

John 6:28-29
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Romans 6:14- for you are not under the law but under grace !

Romans 7:6
But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

hope this helps !!!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your demeanor reeks of the flesh.[/QUOTE]


My “demeanor “ reeks of disgust.... A disgust at hearing “Perverted , False Gospels Of Works That send people to Hell.....Paul encouraged the “ Rebuking” Of The Leaven that guys like you spread that destroyed many of Paul’s Churches..... Repent from spreading your Leaven of “ yeah, Jesus Saves ...BUT....once ya know THAT, you gotta ( insert your favorite type of Dead Work here at this point)”
Yes , repent of that and watch my demeanor change instantly......

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Try them.....please.

The true gospel believers that will never perish:

• Follow Christ
• Take up their cross
• Do not walk in darkness
• Count all things loss
• Do not assume they have attained to the resurrection
• Do not assume they have won Christ
• Press toward the mark for the prize

The fake gospel believers:

• Are not required to take up a cross
• Are free to walk in darkness
• Need not to count all things loss
• They assume they have already attained to the resurrection
• They assume that they have already won Christ
• Assume they already have the prize

John 10:27-28 KJVS
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Matthew 16:24 KJVS
[24] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

John 8:12 KJVS
[12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

1 Peter 2:21-22 KJVS
[21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Philippians 3:8,11-14 KJVS
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

[12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

[13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

1 John 1:6 KJVS
[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

 

[ChristisGod]

The true gospel believers that will never perish:

• Follow Christ
• Take up their cross
• Do not walk in darkness
• Count all things loss
• Do not assume they have attained to the resurrection
• Do not assume they have won Christ
• Press toward the mark for the prize

Nothing but your assumptions above.

Now show us from the BIBLE where any of the above is mentioned along with the GOSPEL.

next......................................

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Now show us from the BIBLE where any of the above is mentioned along with the GOSPEL.

So then what are those scriptures speaking of then?

Did the inspired writers just want to write things of no use to us?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

My “demeanor “ reeks of disgust.... A disgust at hearing “Perverted , False Gospels Of Works

I am equally disgusted at your doctrine and behavior, but how is it that I am able to be respectful and polite and you cannot?

Fruits of the Spirit ring a bell?

 

[ChristisGod]

So then what are those scriptures speaking of then?

Did the inspired writers just want to write things of no use to us?

na nice try you made all the assumptions not I and its up to you to prove their validity with evidence from Scripture, otherwise its just your opinion.

next....................

 

[Michiah-Imla]

na nice try you made all the assumptions not I and its up to you to prove their validity with evidence from Scripture, otherwise its just your opinion.

You just cannot hear.

Matthew 11:15 KJVS
[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Marymog]

I accuse you of adding to the Gospel with the false, demon- inspired 7/Sacraments .....please defend yourself and convince me that I am wrong...I am not interested in your insults or opinions....prove to me Scripturally that I am mistaken.....show an on-Looking world how you are not “ fallen from Grace” according to Paul , by ADDING to his Two- Part way of getting saved.....show us why you do not fit his description of one that is “ Accursed”, or God- Damned by Preaching a False Gospel ....

You trolled me, insulted, insulted The Church, posted your opinion with no quotes from Scripture to back it up and you are clearly an angry person who probably should be put in time out by the MOD's due to your language, however, I am not going to report you since I want everyone to see you for who you really are.

Mary

 

[ChristisGod]

You just cannot hear.

Matthew 11:15 KJVS
[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I hear just fine but hey you are the one making things up regarding the GOSPEL, not me. You cannot prove a single statement you made with the bible that connects the GOSPEL to those things you said in your post.

So you respond with ad hominem attacks which is a sure sign of defeat. Attack the person not the position.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Brother, the assumption many make is that belief is a one time prayer, but they misunderstand that faith in Jesus is a walk, a relationship, for the just shall live by faith. If one is truly one of His sheep, will they not endure in the faith, eyes fixed upon their beloved savior?

Do you not remember when Jesus told His disciples about two men asked by the master to go work in His fields? The first said "I will go." but didn't. The second said "No way!" but eventually went. Jesus then asked His disciples which one did the will of the Father. And we both know wht Jesus said.

I pray many people are watching, for it is when we finally come to the conclusion that we cannot trust ourselves to remain faithful because of our fickle, oft-times rebellious, disobedient flesh, that we cry out to God for brand new natures that He promises He will CAUSE to stay obedient and to continue to believe and look to Jesus as His savior.

blessings to you, BB

Gideon

You are right it is not simply saying a prayer. Easy believism is a curse that slick snake oil salesmen have foisted on the church.

When we trust christ as savior- we are given a new nature and will produce fruit in our lives. How much and when is up to God and the individual and not according to anyones timetable.

He teaches us obedience, but be not mistaken sin will still finds it way in our lives and we will commit sin. That is not to condone or excuse it, but to simply express reality.

When the Lord saved us, He knew all our life from beginning to end and He knew we would fail Him too often once we became Children of God. but He still chose to love us and save us and lead us and conform us bit by bit! The depths of His love is awesome!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So you respond with ad hominem attacks

I responded with an observation based on the facts.

 

[Brakelite]

Hey @marks. Last time I popped in here for a look was just a couple of days ago...man, you talk about sin and look what happens. And people said we shouldn't talk about it lol. I wonder why when there is so much vehement disagreement on what it is, how God has dealt with it, and what our attitude toward it should be? Methinks this topic should be repeated again and again until everyone is clear as to its importance.
The greatest want of the world is the want of men—men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall...
But sin is not to be lightly regarded. The Lord has commanded us not to suffer wrong upon our brother. He says, “If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him.” Luke 17:3. Sin is to be called by its right name, and is to be plainly laid out before the wrongdoer. In his charge to Timothy, Paul, writing by the Holy Spirit, says, “Be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” 2 Timothy 4:2. And to Titus he writes, “There are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers.... Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.” Titus 1:10-13.

And Joshua said unto Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the Lord God of Israel, and make confession unto him; and tell me now what thou hast done; hide it not from me. Joshua 7:19.
The history of Achan teaches the solemn lesson that for one man's sin the displeasure of God will rest upon a people or a nation till the transgression is searched out and punished. Sin is corrupting in its nature. One man infected with its deadly leprosy may communicate the taint to thousands.... Many dare not condemn iniquity, lest they shall thereby sacrifice position or popularity. And by some it is considered uncharitable to rebuke sin. The servant of God ... is under the most solemn obligation to present the Word of God, without fear or favor. He must call sin by its right name....
The love of God will never lead to the belittling of sin; it will never cover or excuse an unconfessed wrong. Achan learned too late that God's law, like its Author, is unchanging. It has to do with all our acts and thoughts and feelings. It follows us, and reaches every secret spring of action. By indulgence in sin, men are led to lightly regard the law of God. Many conceal their transgressions from their fellow men, and flatter themselves that God will not be strict to mark iniquity. But His law is the great standard of right, and with it every act of life must be compared in that day when God shall bring every work into judgment with every secret thing, whether it be good or evil. Purity of heart will lead to purity of life. All excuses for sin are vain. Who can plead for the sinner when God testifies against him?
Ellen G White

 

[justbyfaith]

Make sure you Repent of all of your Sins that you committed today, before you go to “ SleepyTown” ....If you die in your sleep and there is even just “ one” sin left upon your “RepentanceLedger” , you will drop into Hell! ( in accordance with your Doctrine)

Not in accordance with my doctrine.

For, you have not accurately estimated my doctrine.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Nothing but your assumptions above.

There was also scripture to back up what I complied in my short bullet point opening.

But as I said.

You probably didn’t even bother to read the scriptures.

Since you assume anything I have to say is false (as it appears always when debating OSAS’ers).

 

[ChristisGod]

I responded with an observation based on the facts.

nothing but your opinions void of SCRIPTURE connecting the GOSPEL to those opinions.

 

[ChristisGod]

There was also scripture to back up what I complied in my short bullet point opening.

But as I said.

You probably didn’t even bother to read the scriptures.

Since you assume anything I have to say is false (as it appears always when debating OSAS’ers).

I know every verse regarding the gospel in the N.T. which is why I asked you to prove it which you CANNOT, hence your ad hominem attacks.

hope this helps !!!

 

[justbyfaith]

were you “ Trying to get Saved” or where you “Trusting to get Saved?” I already know the answer ...”

You sure?...because the answer is that I am trusting that I am already saved.

I did not make myself into a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv))...God is the one who did that for me.

The second part of Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Him by Jesus personally) that you will be asked about on that Day is this.....did you Believe that Jesus rose from the dead ?

Most definitely...and I believe that the same power that rose Jesus from the dead dwells in us...

Therefore we do have the ability to walk in freedom (John 8:31-36) and victory (1 Corinthians 15:57) over sin.

The Gospel you will be tested by is NOT what “ WE” did for God ....It is all about what “ GOD ” did for us.....Believe it and make sure you Rest in it.....God Bless.....

Thank you, I am resting in that grace. Did you know that because of such grace as this, we don't any longer walk according to the dictates of (the lusts of) the flesh and of the mind (see Ephesians 2:1-8)? So, if you are still walking according to the dictates of (the lusts of) the flesh and of the mind, that would indicate that you have not laid a hold of the grace that is spoken of there. I know that I have laid hold of it...how about you?

Here is all that I need to Prove OSAS.....unless Jesus is a Liar.....do you think Jesus is a Liar? Here is what He said in John 5:24......”Whoever hears My Word and Believes who sent me HAS Eternal Life and will NEVER come under Condemnation”.......
When somebody persuades me that “ Never “ does not mean “ Never” , then I will renounce OSAS....

Real OSAS as Calvin taught it has always been POTS...

In John 10:27-30, the three-fold assurance is given to people whom Jesus knows...

Jesus never knew those who work iniquity (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).

Putting your trust in the doctrine of OSAS may be putting your trust in something that will end up being a splinter in your hand...

The real doctrine of OSAS (defined as POTS) tells us that the one who does the will of the Lord abideth (sinneth not, 1 John 3:6) for ever (1 John 2:17).

There is a hypothetical situation that we ought to fear as believers; because it may not be hypothetical if we do not fear...and that is the situation that we would die spiritually because of sin (in James 1:12-16).

Of course for the one who does fear (see Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv), Psalms 19:9 (kjv)), the one who lives and believes in Jesus shall never die (John 11:25-27)...

However the one who is presumptuous and banks on the doctrine of OSAS and believes that he can turn away from righteousness and sin, and still be saved, will find on his day of judgment that the Lord was holy all along and that His blood was shed in order to bring sanctification (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleansing (1 John 1:7). Therefore if he spurned that work of the Holy Ghost, it may not bode will for him.

Jesus said, using Paul as His spokeman.....” There is NO ONE that is “ Righteous”—— no, not ONE”

Romans 3:10-18 is qualified by Romans 3:9,19...

In Romans 3:9, it shows that it is Jews and Gentiles who are all under sin...whereas we find in 1 Corinthians 10:32 that there are three people groups that are shown forth to be in the world....Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God...and since the church of God isn't mentioned, it is indeed exempt from the indictment on people in Romans 3:10-18.

In Romans 3:19 we find that the law says what it says (all of what it says about the sinner is found in Romans 3:10-18) to those who are under it...

Paul, in Romans 6:14, tells us that as believers in Christ, sin (see Romans 3:10-18) shall not have dominion over us, for we are not under the law but under grace.

Please get an easy to read Bible and actually READ it .....you are a walking embarrassment....I pray that all Newbies know that you are as Blind as a man can be....

Back at'cha.

I don't think you have considered the realities that I have set forth just above this statement (just above my last quotation of you); and I think that you should.

It is so quick that I think you may have missed the point...but if you go back and look up the scriptures in question, maybe you will get the point...

 

[justbyfaith]

This is 100% incorrect!

Romans 4:13-16
King James Version

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 5
King James Version

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

omans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.


Your <fify> understanding of Romans 2 is faulty.

It is not faulty.

Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

We receive the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14).

Those who bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn them in their behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23).

There is a righteousness of God that is apart from the law, that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

Therefore, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

The spiritual mind is at peace with God; for it is subject to the law of God and cannot be otherwise (inverse of Romans 8:7).

 

[Brakelite]

This is 100% incorrect!

Romans 4:13-16
King James Version

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Romans 5
King James Version

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Habakkuk 2:4
Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

omans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.


YOur understanding of Romans 2 is faulty.

No, he is correct...the doers of the law are justified. (Romans 2:13)
BUT, it isn't by their law-keeping that they are justified. (Romans 3:20)
Confused? Let me explain. Both concepts above are correct. Yes, the doers of the law are justified. And yes, we are justified by faith through grace...alone. But the just shall live by faith...(Romans 3:28)
faith in WHAT? Faith in the power of God to recreate them in His own image as at creation. Conformed into the image of His Son. (Romans 8:29) This is what God predertermined to do since the fall. (Romans 8:29; 12:2)
Even before the fall God prepared for this eventuality. (Revelation 13:8)
To empower the sinner to walk in harmony with His laws (2 Peter 1:4)
...and each individual repentant sinner receives this power by FAITH. So. Yes, we are justified by faith. And that very same faith, if we exercise it, is the basis of our becoming doers of the law.
Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12