SinSinSin

[Ferris Bueller]

My balloon is red, my balloon is round. How many balloons do I have?

At least one.

He's not giving exclusive catagories of sin.

What is it about the word 'also' in Psalm 19:13 that you do not understand? I have a balloon that is red. I ALSO have a balloon that is green. How many colors of balloons is that?

So let's do be Bereans. Can you think of any passages which actually give definitions for sin? A couple come to my mind. "All that is not of faith is sin." That's one.

Numbers 15:28 (unintentional sin)
28And the priest shall make atonement before the LORD on behalf of the person who erred by sinning unintentionally; and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven.

Numbers 15:30-31 (defiant sin)
30But the person who sins defiantly, whether a native or foreigner, blasphemes the LORD. That person shall be cut off from among his people. 31He shall certainly be cut off, because he has despised the word of the LORD and broken His commandment; his guilt remains on him.”

Hebrews 10:26 (deliberate sin)
26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries.

..................................................................................

Deuteronomy 29:19-20 (sinning in stubbornness of heart)
18Make sure there is no man or woman, clan or tribe among you today whose heart turns away from the LORD our God...
19...such a person hears the words of this oath,d he invokes a blessing on himself, saying, ‘I will have peace, even though I walk in the stubbornness of my own heart.’
20The LORD will never be willing to forgive him. Instead, His anger and jealousy will burn against that man, and every curse written in this book will fall upon him. The LORD will blot out his name from under heaven

Now, with that in mind read this......

Hebrews 10:28-29
28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses (see above passage) died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace (by deliberately sinning in this New Covenant, vs26)?

Now, how many balloons....I mean.....kinds of sinning did we read about in these passages? Hint: More than one, and less than three.

Now, there is in fact a place that a sin is different, that being sexual sin, which is against one's own body.

Yes, but the question is, are you committing that sexual sin unintentionally (perhaps in weakness, or ignorance), or are you doing that in deliberate, willful defiance? God's got the believer covered for the first reason for sinning. But you better do a quick about face and come back to God if you're doing it for the second reason, because if you die in that state you ain't going into the kingdom when Jesus comes back. You are in defiant unbelief and are blaspheming the Lord. Your guilt remains on you.

There is living in the life of the Spirit. OR, there is doing the works of the flesh. You are doing one or the other at all times. Now, feel free to parse out the works of the flesh, this kind, that kind, personally, I fail to see the significance.

The difference we have been discussing between the kinds of sin is whether it is an unintentional sin of weakness or ignorance, or a deliberate and willful sin done in defiance of the grace of God. Stay on topic here. Don't change what we've been talking about here.

I've been given a lot of thought to this.

A number of people have come onto the forum to try and turn our minds towards the keeping of the law.

What is it about 'love your neighbor as yourself'—Leviticus 19:18 , the "royal law found in Scripture" (James 2:8) that you find distasteful? I don't understand this defensiveness and resistance by Christians to wanting to keep the laws of God. Laws summarized in the law 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

Galatians 6
12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Something to think about.

There's nothing to think about here. No believer has to be literally circumcised anymore. Why? Because you are ALREADY circumcised to God's complete and total satisfaction by the Spirit. The laws that we are talking about here are the laws summarized in 'love your neighbor as yourself'. You know, laws like 'do not covet', 'do not commit adultery', 'remember the widow and the orphan', and so forth. God did not keep the requirements of those of laws for you. YOU do that, in the new way of the Spirit, not in the old way of reading the law and then trying to keep it in your own power. The difference between the new and the old is now we have the Spirit of God in us to move us to keep his righteous laws and decrees.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You have to know that's not true. So much of the law is literally impossible for you to keep. No temple, no Levites, it goes on and on.

So you must have concocted your own "short list" of laws which you've decided are relevant, and you have the temerity to call that God's Law.

Oh my gosh! Have you even read anything I've said?????

God's law has a lot in it you aren't doing.

There are things in the law I do not HAVE to do, because Christ has already done for me what those things in the law sought to accomplish.

Jesus didn't fulfill your short list, He fulfilled the Law. God won't judge from your short list, He will judge from His Law.

God fulfilled all of the law for me in regard to being made legally righteous in his sight, cleansed from all guilt of sin. But in regard to actually keeping the law 'in action and in truth' (1 John 3:18) I do that, through the power of the Holy Spirit. And it's something I will always do to the very end of my life. God will never do that for me. That is my responsibility and obligation. I am to walk according to, and in step with the Spirit. I wish God did that for us. How different this forum would look if God did that for us.

And you suppose God is endorsing your "short list" as measure of your salvation?

I don't suppose it. It's what the Bible says.

Isn't that measuring yourself against yourself? Of course it is. You declare which laws you keep and don't keep, and declare yourself justified for keep, it is supposed, the ones you do.

I didn't decide which laws don't have to be literally kept and which ones do not. The Bible explains this for us. And the Bible says you are justified (shown to be righteous, not made to be righteous) when you keep God's commmands—the ones that remain to be kept by us.

This is true of anyone who says they keep the Law. They don't.

That is where the blood of Christ comes in. Because I trust in the blood of Christ, if I fail to keep the law because of ignorance or weakness, that failure is forgiven by my High Priest, Jesus, through his blood that he has already sacrificed for me. But if I willfully and defiantly don't keep the laws that remain to be kept by God's people, I am NOT forgiven. Jesus the High Priest does not have that sin covered (I have to come to the Lord to have it covered.....while I am allowed to come to him).

If I die in that state of defiant, willful unbelief and rejection of God's grace I will go to the fiery place, not into the kingdom of God. Does that mean I lost my salvation, or never had it to begin with? What does it matter? I'm going to the fiery place. That's what matters. And that's what the church doesn't talk about, preferring instead to argue about whether once saved always saved is true or not. An argument, one way or the other, that does not change the fact that if you die in willful sin in a rejection of the blood of Christ you are going to the lake of fire, not into the kingdom of God. That's the part that is not in dispute. But we don't talk about that. We talk about the meaninglessness, right or wrong, of once saved always saved instead.

 

[BarneyFife]

So much of the law is literally impossible for you to keep. No temple, no Levites, it goes on and on.

So you must have concocted your own "short list" of laws which you've decided are relevant, and you have the temerity to call that God's Law.

God's law has a lot in it you aren't doing.

Do folks actually believe there is no distinction between the laws that foreshadowed Christ and the ten commandments? Why else would the apostle Paul use an obscure term like "handwriting of ordinances" in Colossians 2:14? Just read any Christian literature produced before 1950 and it's as plain as day what "the law of God" means. Were they just all stupid and uninformed? It's a matter of creeping compromise. It has now fully blossomed into rebellion that's become practically automatic in post-modern Christianity. If anyone's "concocted" a short list, it's God Himself. If it's all the same, why did He bother with the "tables of stone" business?

One of these things is not like the other.

1. Tables of stone
2. Handwriting of ordinances

Is this rocket science? It's either that or people just don't want to be bothered by substantive obedience.

And, please, let's not have the "the other 9 commandments are self-evident" argument. Ask a remote missionary about that nonsense.

What I don't get is that people my age and older are actually buying this stuff.

 

[justbyfaith]

God's hand wrote the ten commandments on the tables of stone.

 

[Brakelite]

I am justified by Christ apart from teh law!

As we all are

My obedience

To what?

Galatians 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Indeed. And I have never seen anyone in any Christian forum ever, even for the 30 years I've been doing this, claim anyone is justified by obeying the law. And I didn't either and you know this, yet you have to remind everyone all the time. Why is that?

 

[Brakelite]

Then define which laws! there are 613 in the OT and 1008 in the NEW!

This one...
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Brakelite]

Then define which laws! there are 613 in the OT and 1008 in the NEW!

I am justified by Christ apart from teh law!

My obedience is a testimony that Jesus is my justification, not my doing the law.

Galatians 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 2:13
King James Version

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


these are on the surface completely contradictory statements. But it is not the word that is lacking but peoples understanding of the context of Romans 2:13 that is lacking.

I think the law in general is liberating in the sense it gives freedom of expression. Let me explain. Say I want to build a dog box. Simple right? But in order for the box to be functional, I need to comply with certain laws. Even for a dog box there's a building code. Water proof. Wind resistant. Accessable. Perhaps even insulated. In other words, it must be dry and warm. If these rules aren't complied with, the dog box is just a wooden structure of no purpose. Yet within those rules, warm and dry can look like a mansion. There is ample freedom of expression even while still obeying the laws. But if one doesn't obey the laws, all one has is a useless sculpture that will likely fall over in the first puff of wind. And if you apply the same to music, no laws... Punk rock.
In other words, the most beautiful effectual and useful human beings are those who love. Being changed into the image of Christ is the most liberating experience one can undergo. Jesus was the most free individual ever to walk this planet. Those boundaries of God's law brought infinite possibilities of expression... Rather than restrictive they brought opportunity. Love is awesome.
And like a dysfunctional dog box, a person without law, especially God's, is also dysfunctional.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The true gospel believers that will never perish:

• Follow Christ
• Take up their cross
• Do not walk in darkness
• Count all things loss
• Do not assume they have attained to the resurrection
• Do not assume they have won Christ
• Press toward the mark for the prize

The fake gospel believers:

• Are not required to take up a cross
• Are free to walk in darkness
• Need not to count all things loss
• They assume they have already attained to the resurrection
• They assume that they have already won Christ
• Assume they already have the prize

John 10:27-28 KJVS
[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Matthew 16:24 KJVS
[24] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

John 8:12 KJVS
[12] Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

1 Peter 2:21-22 KJVS
[21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: [22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Philippians 3:8,11-14 KJVS
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

[12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

[13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

1 John 1:6 KJVS
[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

Newbies.....This confused man preaches a “ gospel” of “ DO!”

The TRUE GOSPEL is the GOOD NEWS of “ DONE!”
The TRUE GOSPEL is NOT what “ man” does for God.......It is what GOD has done for man....

Anybody who wants to TRULY understand the Gospel , Google this: “ Ironside Gospel”.....God bless

 

[Brakelite]

The TRUE GOSPEL is the GOOD NEWS of “ DONE!”
The TRUE GOSPEL is NOT what “ man” does for God.......It is what GOD has done for man...

True. So why don't you believe that gospel? The work of the gospel includes the recreation of man in the image of Christ... The result being Commandment keepers. Just as Christ was.

 

[Addy]

Wrong again. Your opinions on what those verses say show a subtle allegorical shift from what is written based on your commentary.

You have such a delightful writing style... I so enjoy reading your posts.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I feel certain that any disagreement we have here must be about how we're using the words or something, but perhaps I can clarify in saying



My understanding of repentance to salvation is when I realize that there's nothing about me that's good enough for God, when I realize He has provided a way (Grace), when I embrace that truth, wanting to be received by Him.

It's not so much, in my mind, about the absolution from particular sins, rather, a rescue from death into life.

When I realize I'm dead in sin, and want to be forgiven by God, when I trust in the Gospel message enough to receive Jesus.

When I've repudiated my own life, and want the life God gives. Or more theologically, when we are crucified to the flesh, and do it's mind, and we receive the mind of Christ.

Much love!

I agree.
As far as the “Repentance” That Saves a Soul From Damnation.....Jesus gave us an illustration of how True Repentance plays out with the story of the Sinful Publican. It showed a man with a “ Contrite “ Heart ( a “ Repentant” Heart, one could say), who “ Turned to God” ( Repented) and asked for Mercy.
“ Lord, have Mercy on me, a Sinner!”
Jesus said this man was Saved. The Publican did NOT turn “ from” sin——- he Turned “ TO” God.
Anybody that “ turns to God” will be granted the Gift of the Holy Spirit, because “ without” that Spirit , you are “ NONE of His”
The “ New Creation” has a New Heart....A Heart That finds Sinning Repulsive....
“ Turning “FROM” Sin” comes Naturally for those with New Hearts....We must not “ put the Cart before the horse”......
“TURN TO GOD” with a CONTRITE ( Repentant) Heart as a Lost Sinner, like the Publican did..... get that Holy Spirit Inside Of you.....and the “ TURNING FROM SIN “ will occur Naturally as God goes to work, cleaning you up from the inside out ( that “ inside of the cup” thingy ), Transforming you into the very “ image of His Son”. He has Promised to “ Finish the Work That “ HE” started. And He will. “ IF” you Trust Him.......May God bless us all in the understanding of these things....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

My balloon is red, my balloon is round. How many balloons do I have?

He's not giving exclusive catagories of sin.

So let's do be Bereans. Can you think of any passages which actually give definitions for sin? A couple come to my mind. "All that is not of faith is sin." That's one.

Now, there is in fact a place that a sin is different, that being sexual sin, which is against one's own body.

There is living in the life of the Spirit. OR, there is doing the works of the flesh. You are doing one or the other at all times. Now, feel free to parse out the works of the flesh, this kind, that kind, personally, I fail to see the significance.

I've been given a lot of thought to this.

A number of people have come onto the forum to try and turn our minds towards the keeping of the law.

Galatians 6
12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Something to think about.

Much love!

Here is something else to think about...... “By The Deeds Of The Law, NO man will be Justified”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I hope you realize that I am not one of them.

I do preach the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24); as a light by which a man realizes that he is a sinner in need of the Saviour (Romans 3:20) and as venue by which the soul can be converted (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

I also hold that if anyone turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall become an abomination (Proverbs 28:9); and that if we look into the perfect law of liberty and abide therein, we will be blessed in what we do (James 1:22-25).

But as a means of salvation, the law has no virility. It does not have the power to impart life (Galatians 3:21).

Once a man has been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, however, our relationship to the law changes so that it is no longer a taskmaster that condemns us when we fail; now it is a set of principles by which we might become truly wise.

Don’t Forget! You must repent of all of your Sins before you die or all of this stuff you just mentioned is a waste of time.....right? The Audience awaits your answer. A Simple “ yes” or “ no” will suffice .

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You have to know that's not true. So much of the law is literally impossible for you to keep. No temple, no Levites, it goes on and on.

So you must have concocted your own "short list" of laws which you've decided are relevant, and you have the temerity to call that God's Law.

God's law has a lot in it you aren't doing.

Jesus didn't fulfill your short list, He fulfilled the Law. God won't judge from your short list, He will judge from His Law.

And you suppose God is endorsing your "short list" as measure of your salvation? Isn't that measuring yourself against yourself? Of course it is. You declare which laws you keep and don't keep, and declare yourself justified for keep, it is supposed, the ones you do.

This is true of anyone who says they keep the Law. They don't.

It's a blunt truth, but it's truth.

Much love!

Let’s get down to the “ nitty- gritty” here. All of this Parsing Of “ do do this and don’t do that” to get “Fit For Heaven” is Chicken Feed..... FORGET about all these “small potatoes”
If you are going to choose the “ Legal Route” to get yourself Justified before your Holy God , the STANDARD is PERFECTION! “You are to be PERFECT ! Even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect”
How’s that working out for all Of you “ Blind Guides” out there?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh my gosh! Have you even read anything I've said?????


There are things in the law I do not HAVE to do, because Christ has already done for me what those things in the law sought to accomplish.


God fulfilled all of the law for me in regard to being made legally righteous in his sight, cleansed from all guilt of sin. But in regard to actually keeping the law 'in action and in truth' (1 John 3:18) I do that, through the power of the Holy Spirit. And it's something I will always do to the very end of my life. God will never do that for me. That is my responsibility and obligation. I am to walk according to, and in step with the Spirit. I wish God did that for us. How different this forum would look if God did that for us.


I don't suppose it. It's what the Bible says.


I didn't decide which laws don't have to be literally kept and which ones do not. The Bible explains this for us. And the Bible says you are justified (shown to be righteous, not made to be righteous) when you keep God's commmands—the ones that remain to be kept by us.


That is where the blood of Christ comes in. Because I trust in the blood of Christ, if I fail to keep the law because of ignorance or weakness, that failure is forgiven by my High Priest, Jesus, through his blood that he has already sacrificed for me. But if I willfully and defiantly don't keep the laws that remain to be kept by God's people, I am NOT forgiven. Jesus the High Priest does not have that sin covered (I have to come to the Lord to have it covered.....while I am allowed to come to him).

If I die in that state of defiant, willful unbelief and rejection of God's grace I will go to the fiery place, not into the kingdom of God. Does that mean I lost my salvation, or never had it to begin with? What does it matter? I'm going to the fiery place. That's what matters. And that's what the church doesn't talk about, preferring instead to argue about whether once saved always saved is true or not. An argument, one way or the other, that does not change the fact that if you die in willful sin in a rejection of the blood of Christ you are going to the lake of fire, not into the kingdom of God. That's the part that is not in dispute. But we don't talk about that. We talk about the meaninglessness, right or wrong, of once saved always saved instead.

Ahhh.......now it’s all becoming clear.......you adhere to the same False Doctrine preached by “ justbyfaith , the Doctrine Of “ Lucky Repentance” ......no wonder he approves if your post....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You trolled me, insulted, insulted The Church, posted your opinion with no quotes from Scripture to back it up and you are clearly an angry person who probably should be put in time out by the MOD's due to your language, however, I am not going to report you since I want everyone to see you for who you really are.

Mary

You act like I “ gave you hell!”
It reminds me of what Harry Truman said when he was accused of doing the very same thing to his Political Foes...... “ I don't give ANYBODY “ hell”......I just tell them the Truth and they “ think” it’s Hell!” Lol.....
Lighten up, Missy..... I don’t attack YOU .....it’s your False Doctrine That I Hate.....and I will CONTINUE to HATE it and I will CONTINUE to Attack it and be Proud of it...... these False Gospels are Ship- wrecking the Faith Of many that hear and Believe them— causing them to “ fall from Grace” and are Damning the Souls That TEACH these Gospel Additions .Protestant Churches are just as guilty and I attack them also ....so don't get your panties in a knot....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ahhh.......now it’s all becoming clear.......you adhere to the same False Doctrine preached by “ justbyfaith , the Doctrine Of “ Lucky Repentance” ......no wonder he approves if your post....

Nope, I don't adhere to that doctrine for the believer. Your 'lucky repentance' doctrine only applies to the person living in the willful, deliberate sin of their rejection of Christ.

John 8:24
I told you (Pharisees) that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

The believer doesn't have any guilt of sin held to his account to die in. Only Christ rejecters living in willful, deliberate sin die in those unforgiven sins and go to hell. Jot this post # down so if you ever again think that I adhere to that teaching for the believer you'll know that I do not.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

“By The Deeds Of The Law, NO man will be Justified”

No one is disputing this.

What is being said is that after being justified from your previous sins (Romans 3:25; 2 Peter 1:9), you now have a responsibility to obey unto righteousness (Romans 6:16). Or else if you sin willfully, you show who your true master really is (regardless of lip service that Christ is your Lord).

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

You have a shallow understanding of the gospel my friend. Study to show yourself approved (2 Timothy 2:15).

 

[ChristisGod]

No one is disputing this.

What is being said is that after being justified from your previous sins (Romans 3:25; 2 Peter 1:9), you now have a responsibility to obey unto righteousness (Romans 6:16). Or else if you sin willfully, you show who your true master really is (regardless of lip service that Christ is your Lord).

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

You have a shallow understanding of the gospel my friend. Study to show yourself approved (2 Timothy 2:15).

and you have yet to define the Gospel from Scripture with references.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

and you have yet to define the Gospel from Scripture with references.

I believe the gospel as preached by the Apostles in the scriptures:

Acts of the Apostles 2:22-39
Acts of the Apostles 3:13-26
Acts of the Apostles 4:11-12
Acts of the Apostles 10:36-43
Acts of the Apostles 13:16-41
Acts of the Apostles 17:24-31
John 3:16-21
Romans 1:16
Romans 3:23-26
Romans 4:25
1 Corinthians 15:1-26
Ephesians 1:7-14
Colossians 1:13-20
Galatians 1:4
2 Timothy 1:9-10