SinSinSin

[BarneyFife]

Being “ seen Of men” has no appeal for me ...If a person who Believes In tithing is asked about that belief and he admits that he “ tithes” is that he same thing as “ wanting to be seen of men?” God knows my heart and you know that is not the reason I discussed giving....let me know when start hearing trumpets before I post .....until then , shut up with your “ insults” that have no truth to them....

So you feel pretty safe in the absence of trumpets, do you? Are you being facetious or do you actually believe trumpets are required to be an offender? Odd that you can't tell an insult from a rebuke (from Scripture, btw). You say "if a person is asked..." Who asked you to reveal your virtues? You simply responded defensively to a hypothetical statement.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lol....you just kinda make it up as you go along, don’t you?
So I can commit a wicked sin as long as I don’t do it again.....nice....

The person who CONTINUES in willful unrepentant sin will not be saved when Jesus comes back. He is an unbeliever.

1 John 3:8-9
8The one who practices sin is of the devil... 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Neither David, nor Moses, met that criteria. We can have honest debate on whether they intentionally sinned or unintentionally sinned, but the point is, they did not continue in that sin. Intentional sin condemns when you don't repent of it and you deliberately and willfully continue down that path of unrepentant, unbelieving sin. I think that's the point you are not getting.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Tricky verse to base your view on there If you wear performance-based Glasses this is a scary scripture. It is dealing with Hebrews, Jews who had been in a covenant relationship with God who were in the promised land Experienced miracles etc They knew the old Testament Sacrificial system, In the OT They could Redo An Animal Sacrifice, with Jesus This Changed They couldn't Re Sacrifice Jesus again Like A Sacrifice in the Old Testament it was a big change, What part of the Verse makes you think the people were saved anyway, They had pressure about returning to Judaism, The language Changes from us to them, there are so many aspects to the verse you don't understand don't use one verse you don't understand to undo your understanding of the rest of the new testament


John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water

When a modern day person turns away from the same gospel preached to the Jews of old, preferring his old life of sin, he is in the same rejection of Christ that they were. It's just the matter of each returning to their particular life of Christ rejecting sin. For the Jews, they rejected the gospel by returning to the temple worship. For the gentile, they reject the gospel by returning to whatever life they have been living. But both represent a trampling on, and a contempt for the grace of God in Christ. It is an unforgivable sin. Since they are in unbelief, and they are doing that deliberately, they don't have the benefit of Christ's ministry in heaven to immediately bring their sin under the blood of Christ like it is that way for believers who sin. I mean, how can it be forgiven? They don't believe in the only Sacrifice God has provided to forgive their sin. Their sin is the sin unto death. No Sacrifice remains for such a person. Where else do you go to get forgiven if you've rejected the only sacrifice for sin that exists?

 

[BarneyFife]

The elephant in the room we're possibly dancing around is that Christians do not lose their assurance of salvation by works, good or bad, but by severing their connection with Christ, which they are free to do at any time.

 

[justbyfaith]

What part of the Verse makes you think the people were saved anyway,

What part of Hebrews 6:1-8 makes me think they were saved? Only in that they had tasted of the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. What is the heavenly gift but salvation? You really think the people mentioned had never partaken of salvation?

They put their Faith in their “ Good Moral Guy” Performance and in their Super Memories to keep their “Lucky Repentance” Slate up to date....

Not my "super memories" but the work of the Holy Spirit in that He is the light that shines on my life and pinpoints all of the sins that I have ever committed or ever will commit before I go on to be with the Lord.

You forget the law was not made for a righteous man. and we are righteous in Christ!

Right...the law was made for sinners (1 Timothy 1:9)...are you a sinner?

1Ti 1:9, Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Hebrews 8:12-13
King James Version

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

People often take this passage out of context to try and say that we are no longer under the law (while we are under the law to Christ, 1 Corinthians 9:21) in the sense that we are to obey it.

In Hebrews 8:8-10, it should become clear that while the Old Covenant is decaying and waxing old and vanishing away, that the law is a part of the New Covenant in that it is written on our hearts and in our minds as recipients of the New Covenant.

 

[marks]

No, lol. You look to what Jesus is doing in you. This is a Biblical truth that the church knows nothing about anymore, but it's right in the Bible.

I truly hope that you will be able to get your eyes off the of the earthly and onto the heavenly.

It's truly a much better view with your eyes on Jesus.

They rejected justification through faith. They have denied Christ. They are not trusting in Christ apart from works of the law for justification. They are accursed. They will go to the lake of fire. I thought you understood that better than me, lol. Are you now saying that's not true?

Where do you go for your proof? To the works of the Law. "Is Jesus producing Law Keeping in me? What say I?" Is this not what you teach?

I am trusting Christ for His life in me, by His justification of me - forgiveness, and a new creation - fully apart from any and all works of Law. You look to works of Law as your evidence.

Let's talk about evidence. Is God deceived? Do you think I am deceived? Seriously! Do you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

which they are free to do at any time.

How would you actually go about doing that, considering the promises He has made to us?

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

How would you actually go about doing that, considering the promises He has made to us?

Much love!

By doing the opposite of what "abiding" means.

 

[marks]

By doing the opposite of what "abiding" means.

Considering that He has promised to never leave you nor forsake you? Considering that He has put His seal of ownership on you? Who can go against that? God made you, and has declared you His property. You're thinking you might walk off somewhere? I don't see that.

I see where God says that if you've been born again, you will be with Jesus in glory. And Scripture CANNOT be broken.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Considering that He has promised to never leave you nor forsake you? Considering that He has put His seal of ownership on you? Who can go against that? God made you, and has declared you His property. You're thinking you might walk off somewhere? I don't see that.

I see where God says that if you've been born again, you will be with Jesus in glory. And Scripture CANNOT be broken.

And I reject the notion of a savior that will not let me go if I wish. Am I allowed to reject that notion?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I truly hope that you will be able to get your eyes off the of the earthly and onto the heavenly.

It's truly a much better view with your eyes on Jesus.

How is 'looking to what Jesus is doing in you' not having your eyes off of the earthly and onto the heavenly?????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't ignore it. I know what it actually means. And it doesn't mean I don't have to uphold it.

Correct ! But you totally miss what it means that we uphold the law! But if you are no longer under the law- what do you think upholding the law means then?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Think about this. Does you and I no longer being under our 3rd grade schoolmasters mean we are now free to not obey everything they taught us? Or does it mean that we are not under our schoolmasters because we have grown up into capable bodies and minds and have within us the power and the motivation and the skill to do what they taught us? All the things they hammered us with from the outside are now written on the inside of us. But there are tools that those schoolmasters used to get us to where we're going, and where we're now at, that we simply don't need anymore.

Well your example is irrelavent. A teacher today barely resembles a pedagogue of Pauls day.

As Paul said , the pedogogue( the Mosaic Law) is no more! We have a new TEacher- He is called the Holy Spirit and He did lay down commands by inspiring the NT writers on how we should live to show that we have been made righteous.

All you have doen is pick and choose which parts of teh Mosaic Law you wish to obey based on your cultural matrix.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Correct ! But you totally miss what it means that we uphold the law! But if you are no longer under the law- what do you think upholding the law means then?

I already explained it in a post. And I'm not bothered that you didn't understand what I said. And I will explain it again in as few words as possible. But first, please tell me what you say upholding the law of Moses by faith means. Then I will explain what I said again.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Because they just don't apply to my situation. For example, I don't crap on the ground. I don't own a field. And I don't own any servants.


Upholding the law means you're not in violation of any of it. By believing in the work of Christ, and walking by the Spirit, a person does not violate any law of Moses. And so it is in that way that it is 'kept' by the obedient believer. Not the disobedient believer. And surely not the unbeliever. They do not uphold the law.

But they are part of the Mosaic Law and you say we should uphold it! So how do you obey the dietary laws of the Mosaic Law by walking by the Spirit?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The mistake you are making is thinking that 'not being under the law' means you don't have to keep any of it. That's what the church teaches. But not being under the law means 1) I no longer have to approach God through foods and ceremonies and earthly priests. I don't need to because I'm already brought near to God through Christ, the New and better Sacrifice and Priest. And so I'm not 'under' the law that way. And 2) I'm not under the law in that I have the Perfect and Everlasting Sacrifice of Christ and his ministry covering all my transgressions of the laws that remain for me to keep, and so I'm not under the condemnation of the law. And 3) because I'm a new creation that is actually now able to keep the laws that remain for me to keep I'm no longer under the power of the law to arouse and increase sin in me. All these are what it means for the believer to not be under the law anymore. But in no way does not being under the law anymore mean I do not have to keep the laws that remain for me to keep, summarized in the royal law 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Once you understand this you'll see how the Bible does not contradict itself when it says you are not under the law, yet you uphold the law.

IOW you pick and choose which parts of the Mosaic Law you wish to keep then?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I already explained it in a post. And I'm not bothered that you didn't understand what I said. And I will explain it again in as few words as possible. But first, please tell me what you say upholding the law of Moses by faith means. Then I will explain what I said again.

It means we establish the law and why it was given ultimately in the first place. but I am not under the authority of any of the 613 commands of the Mosaic Law. What does it mean to you?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yep! And so it is that when we believe in Christ and we walk by the Spirit we uphold all the righteous requirements of the law. And when we fail, the blood of Christ cleanses us so that we aren't under the condemnation of the law. And so the righteous man is not under the law. But the unbelieving, unrighteous man, he is the one who is under the law, just as God himself ordained. That mission and function of the law is for the unrighteous man, not the man made righteous in Christ.

So how do you fulfill the righteous requirements of the dietary part of the Mosaic Law by walking in christ?

And I agree with you that the law is made for the sinner and not for the one made righteous by Jesus! But why is it for the sinner in you r thinking?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not having to literally keep the Sabbath any more is not a cultural issue. The believer does not have to keep the literal Mosaic Sabbath because he is already brought near to God in Sabbath Rest through the work of Jesus Christ. Why keep a law telling you how to enter into Sabbath rest when you are already in Sabbath rest through Christ to God's complete and total satisfaction? That is why that particular law, and laws similar to it, have been laid aside as unneeded and obsolete now (Hebrews 8:13). Not destroyed, not broken, not trampled on, just not needed anymore. God even calling it 'satisfied' and 'fulfilled' for the believer.

And, obviously, all the remaining laws summarized in 'love your neighbor as yourself' that still apply to us culturally are not satisfied by Christ on the cross and his ministry in the heavenly tabernacle, but rather by and through us as we submit to the Holy Spirit within us. And so in all these things the law is upheld by the obedient believer, not cast down and trampled on and allowed to be broken by the believer as the church teaches.

So that is another Mosaic Law you have jettisoned?

The Sabbath God declared to be a covenant throughout all generations! And it is the 7th day of the week. Not a state of rest- but a ceasing of labor for one day. At least according to the bible.

 

[Taken]

So, if we find you purposely living in the unbelief of your old life a year from now, what does that mean as far as your once saved always saved beliefs? Are you lost or still saved?

•If a person,
is observed by other men; (ex: altar call, water baptism)
•OR
claims to other men he Believes;
•AND
claims he is is Saved;
•"Other men"...can "believe" that man's testimony "as that man's Truth"
•OF;
-Belief,
-Having Established a Relationship with the Lord God,
-Having Been Saved
•OR;
Not.

•Typically;
"Other men", WILL believe the man's testimony.

•Thereafter;
"That man" will be "presumed" (by other men)
•TO BE Saved and Have an Established Relationship with the Lord God.

•That "status", will Continue to be Believed, BY, "other men";
•UNTIL, such time...
•••The "man himself, declares/ testifies to his OWN Disbelief.
•••The "man himself, promotes Disbelief.

Any man, regardless of "title" or "other man's Believed "status"...
IS Simply AN "indication";
Based entirely on the man's Testimony and Behavior.

When the man Testifies himself;
his OWN testimony WAS FALSE, WAS A LIE.
When the man's Own behavior reveals;
he promotes Behaviors Against the Lord God...

Other men WHO Believed the man's FALSE Testimony; NOW KNOW, He Lied, He Never Believed In the Lord God...

Which Reveals; that that man NEVER had an Established Relationship WITH the Lord God, and NEVER received the Gift of Salvation FROM the Lord God.

•A man WHO has NEVER received the Gift of Salvation FROM the Lord God...Has NEVER been ONCE SAVED.

•ONCE SAVED NEVER Applied to that man.

•ONCE SAVED...does NOT APPLY to•any man,
Whose Testimony of Belief IS BASED ON A FALSE Testimony.

•men CAN BE Fooled, BY FALSE TESTIMONY of other men.

•God IS NEVER Fooled. Salvation is an Offering to men.
•ONCE ANY man, Accepts The Lord Gods OFFER...it IS the Lord God Himself WHO searches the man's Truth, in the man's Heart, whether or not the man's Testimony IS TRUE...or NOT!
•Salvation IS NOT given a man Whose Testimony is FALSE!

**What does that mean as far as "what a man believes about ONCE SAVED...ALWAYS SAVED?"

It means SALVATION MUST BE Received, (from the Lord God- For the man Having A TRUE Testimony IN and TO the Lord God) in order for A man to BE Saved.

It DOES NOT mean; (The All Knowing Lord God)...was Tricked into GIVING a man The Lord Gods Gift of Salvation, Based on a man's False Testimony, TO the Lord God, before The Hearing, observances, witnesses...
OF other men!

•Salvation IS a gift from God to Individual men, to Expressly Establish A FOREVER Relationship Between that one Individual and the Lord God.
•What other men, Hear, learn, observe, IS merely "indications" of AN other individuals "Relationship" with or without the Lord God.

I have a personal Relationship with the Lord God.
He Offered me Salvation and I chose to Receive His Offering "ONCE".
•Doesn't matter IF any other man, Believes ME, MY Testimony, MY Gift received from the Lord God.
•Doesn't matter IF other men APPROVE, challenge, make Accusations of MY Relationship with MY Lord God.
• I already KNOW...My Belief and Standing "IN and WITH" the Lord God...is Based ON MY True Testimony... CAN NOT BE Compromised...(BY His Promise TO ME)...Regardless of What Other men, APPROVE, challenge, claim)...
•Because...I already KNOW...there IS NOT ONE Shred of Evidence...of ME Against the Lord God, or Promotion of Being Against the Lord God.

I DO Know men HAVE fooled other men, for a man himself Proporting and Claiming to other men, THAT THEY BELIEVED....for years...Even BEING Pastors, Preachers, Teachers....AND THEN...announcing IT WAS a BIG FAT LONG Corrupted LIE....Because they NEVER Believed, and Don't Believe.
Bottom line...they FOOLED - for years- other men...The did not Fool God.
And NO they never Received Salvation...
Not ONCE...NOT Ever.

You can conduct your own research IN Scripture of WHAT the Lord God Offers, the WAY of HOW to Receive His OFFERINGS, IF and WHEN the OFFER Expires, IF the Lord God GIVES a man a GIFT and THEN "TAKES BACK or VOIDS" the Gift...
OR IF the Lord God GIVES a Gift BASED on FALSE Testimony.
You can also do your own research ON men who claim to have Fooled men with a False Testimony - for years...Because they Never Believed.

Glory to God,
Taken