SinSinSin

[Brakelite]

surprise.....Grace was never extended to some of you guys and that’s why you never Appreciate it , understand it , or LIVE it.

Wow.
KJV 1 John 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Except for whoever you were referring to as "you guys".

 

[Brakelite]

The only “Sabbath” or R E S T that God cares about in this Age Of Grace is this: are you “ RESTING” in Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing for your Salvation? If you are “ worrying” about your Salvation, you are not Resting .....you simply don’t Believe the Gospel That “ could” have Saved you....
God declares in Heb. 3 and 4 that if you are not Resting in the Gospel....you are guilty of UNBELIEF ! Chances are, you never heard that in Church.You are hearing it now.Serious stuff, friends!

Straw man after straw man, presumption on top of presumption. Your post reeks to high heaven of arrogance and self righteous conceit.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I didn't jettison it. I satisfied it's holy requirement when I entered into Rest through Jesus Christ. So, since I'm already at Sabbath Rest through the new way of faith in Christ I don't need to try to enter into Sabbath rest through the old way of the literal letter of the law that I'm already entered into through faith in Christ. I uphold the law of Sabbath Rest through my faith in Christ, not nullify it by my faith in Christ, just as Paul said....

Romans 3:28-31
28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

So you changed the law of the Sabbath as declared in the OT to satisfy your opinion of Hebrews 4 rest as being Sabbath rest then.

Here is the law as God declared it: Exodus 20:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Show me how Hebrews 4 equals keeping the seventh day holy!

 

[HisLife]

Straw man after straw man, presumption on top of presumption. Your post reeks to high heaven of arrogance and self righteous conceit.

Height of arrogance and self righteous conceit.

Actually, I claim to love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. I say that without embarrassment or shame.

 

[Brakelite]

I appreciate the argument, but Jesus himself declared all foods clean (Mark 7:19). If the dietary laws were meant to address dietary health and wellbeing he would not have declared them clean for consumption.

Mark 7:19 says nothing is the sort. The passage isn't about clean or unclean food, but clean or unclean hands. Which was nothing but a man made ceremonial ritual that as Jesus showed, denied common sense. Just as it denies common sense to eat shelkl fish, vultures, rats or pork and lying to yourself that they don't have the potential to kill you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I do not break any of them through my faith in Christ. The ENTIRE law of Moses is marked 'unbroken', and 'satisfied' for the person who believes in Christ and walks by the Spirit. No debt of law remains outstanding for the person who believes in Christ and walks by the Spirit. The problem is you can't see how that can be true if you don't literally keep the letter of the law. And so you think I'm wrong and you're right. But what's happening is you simply can't see the truth of what I'm saying. A truth that comes right out of the pages of our Bibles. But a truth that has been suppressed by a very uneducated and un-spiritual church leadership, starting with the very early Catholic church that taught that all things 'law of Moses' was categorically and without exception you trying to earn your own salvation. That's incredibly ignorant and uneducated thinking. But that is exactly what the church has brain washed us with. It's so deeply entrenched in the church that it will never be uprooted from the church before Christ comes back. Only a few will see the truth about this and understand it. And only because those few discern what the church says using the Bible, instead of using what the church says to discern the Bible. Virtually every Christian does the latter.

See I agree that any requirements (debt) of the law have all been fulfilled in Jesus. thus the law is now null for all its requirements have been fuflilled.

It is you who say you uphold the law by walking in the Spirit. If we are no longer under the law as you agreed as Paul declared, why do you fret about upholding the law?

If the law is not for the righteous man, as we agree and Paul declared- why do you worry at all about upholding it? YOu said it was the Mosaic LAw but yet you say many things no longer need to be upheld!

You can't have it both ways! You are either upholding all 613 commands or none of them As James wrote- to break one of the 613 is to break them all!

And I believe we are saved by grace through faith + nothing! I also believe once one is saved they are saved forever. I also believe the Law of Moses is no longer valid. As Paul and Hebrews both said we are not under it and it is old and obsolete!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We have scriptural precedents that guide us into discerning whether or not a particular law finds it's fulfillment in the work of Christ or through us when we walk by the Spirit. That is how we 'pick and choose' what gets literally upheld and kept by us and what does not have to be.

So show the Scriptural precedent that says you can eat shellfish or eels or octopi or beasts with uncloven hooves. Or that we shouldn't take an adulteress and stone her!

Did Jesus violate teh Mosaic Law by saying only those without sin can put her to death? for the law does not say that! I could go on and on about most of teh 613 Mosaic Laws, but I think you are getting the picture.

How do you know your "discernment" is correct? Others disagree with you, why are you right and they wrong?

I don't see one passage in Scripture that even implies that we are allowed to use our own "discernment" in deciding which laws were fulfilled in Jesus and which ones we still have to keep.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That does not answer the question. What does it mean to 'establish the law'?

YOu tell me what you believe it means and then I will gladly tell you what I have learned.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you changed the law of the Sabbath as declared in the OT to satisfy your opinion of Hebrews 4 rest as being Sabbath rest then.

Here is the law as God declared it: Exodus 20:

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Show me how Hebrews 4 equals keeping the seventh day holy!

Show me how Christ's crucifixion equals 'keeping' the law of sacrifice for sin and I will show you how Hebrews 4 satisfies the lawful requirement to enter into Sabbath Rest keeping the 7th day holy.

 

[Brakelite]

Actually, I claim to love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. I say that without embarrassment or shame

Height of arrogance and self righteous conceit.

Really? Why is that? Don't you love God more than anything else? Are you not a born again new creature in Christ filled with the Spirit of the Living God who by His word created the universe, came and died that you may live, and made so many promises that you could be an actual partaker of the Divine nature thus escaping the world of lust and selfishness? If not, why not?

 

[Brakelite]

Y'all claim to believe the Bible, which basically means you believe that when God speaks, He speaks Truth. But you don't believe the following promise, in fact you go out of your way to rake up theological arguments to try to prove its impossible, then turn on those who claim the promise as theirs. You remind me of those Jesus was speaking of...
KJV Matthew 23:13
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.


KJV Romans 6:13-14
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOu tell me what you believe it means and then I will gladly tell you what I have learned.

I already told you. Upholding the law means not being in violation of it. Paul said a similar thing here....

Galatians 5:22-23
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

When you believe in Christ, and walk by the Spirit you are in no violation of the law of Moses. Your faith upholds the law of Moses.

Romans 3:31
31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

Now you tell me what Romans 3:31 means. What do you say faith upholding/establishing the law of Moses means? You say faith doesn't uphold the law, and that it doesn't have to uphold it because it got nullified and replaced in favor of a new and different law that just happens to be similar to the law of Moses.

 

[HisLife]

Really? Why is that? Don't you love God more than anything else? Are you not a born again new creature in Christ filled with the Spirit of the Living God who by His word created the universe, came and died that you may live, and made so many promises that you could be an actual partaker of the Divine nature thus escaping the world of lust and selfishness? If not, why not?

It points to Jesus Only Jesus Lived up to the Demands of the Law, Your question is out of context and doesn't relate, Loving God more than anything is not the same as with all your heart mind body soul and strength, One you can do the other only Jesus could do, You don't replace him no matter how delusional you become, you still need him

 

[Brakelite]

It points to Jesus Only Jesus Lived up to the Demands of the Law, Your question is out of context and doesn't relate, Loving God more than anything is not the same as with all your heart mind body soul and strength, One you can do the other only Jesus could do, You don't replace him no matter how delusional you become, you still need him

Absolutely I need Jesus. Without Him I can do nothing. But with Him I can do all things.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

From post #1441

Sin will be a struggle until we are Resurrected when sin, death and the devil will be done away with

There’s just one problem with this assertion of yours:

Eve sinned.
Satan sinned.
Angels sinned.

And Jesus said this:

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You can't literally uphold a law that governs something you literally do not possess. An example that makes this clear is men have no obligation to literally uphold a law of Moses that governs the monthly period of a woman. But like I said before, even though a law doesn't apply to us specifically, we may still glean a spiritual application out of it. An application that gets upheld again by faith in Christ.

So you don't uphold the whole law, just the parts you feel you can uphold or "discerned" were ot fulfilled in teh person of Jesus so are left up to you to "uphold" BTW what do you define uphold as.

 

[HisLife]

Absolutely I need Jesus. Without Him I can do nothing. But with Him I can do all things.

Create life? create worlds? raise the dead? Become as righteous as him and raise yourself from the dead, You obviously lose perspective and context Your posts show

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Only Jesus Lived up to the Demands of the Law

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The law was made for the sinner for these reasons.....

1) It condemns them as the sinners they are.
2) It arouses and increases sin in the sinner.
3) It's all the ways the unconverted sinner is to approach the Lord in worship.
4) It's cold hard letters are the sinner's sole guide into the righteous things of God.

Unbelievers are the ones for whom the condemnation of the law is sent (for they have not the righteousness of God), who need a way to safely approach God in their unclean, condemned state (for they have not the cleansing and protection of Christ's sacrifice and ministry), who need their sin magnified so they can see it (for they have not the illumination of Christ), and who need the letters of the law to lead them into righteousness (for they have not the Holy Spirit). For all these reasons God has made the law for the sinner and placed them under it, not the righteous.

Well Scripture says the Mosaic Law was given for far different reasons.

 

[HisLife]

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

How many people where where made new creations in Jesus 3 years of earthly ministry, How many in 2000 years since Jesus Ascension to Heaven through His Church, You really cant see past yourself, Tried raising the dead lately or is it all in your own mind

Seen your reference was to keeping the Law, The example In the OT The ones that thought they could keep all the Law where making a Golden calf and worshipping Idols, You Need the Savior that the Law points to