What does the hell doctrine say about the character of God?

St. SteVen said:

Who created hell?
And for what purpose?

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God created Hell

A place for those who did not want to BE With God In The Place He created For Himself and the Angels and humans that WANT to be WITH God.

Are you criticizing God for Not creating some place of Beauty for His creations that stand Against Him?

St. SteVen said:

St. SteVen said:
What does the hell doctrine say about the character of God?

Agree.

Although the church has used fear tactics to control those people.
And few have had the character or courage to stand against it.
Many atheists have come out of the church. A quality export. - LOL

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What "church" are you talking about? It's not any one that I know about.

Bruce-Leiter said:

What "church" are you talking about? It's not any one that I know about.

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The Church of the Straw Man . . .

Wick Stick said:

Horse hockey.

The Bible has a lot to say about judging each other... mostly it's "don't" but it happens and it's about what people say and how they act. There are many people in churches whose purpose in attending is so they can feel "holier than thou."

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It's you alone who will stand before the judgement throne. The same for all. You do your very best, if others are failing in certain ways lovingly try to help them see Gods view on matters. No mortals are perfect, we all need work.

marks said:

The Church of the Straw Man . . .

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Please explain..., @marks.

Bruce-Leiter said:

What "church" are you talking about? It's not any one that I know about.

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Not one I know either. To just say, "the church uses fear . . .", he's not in reality describing "the church", but perhaps this church, or that church, or maybe just one of his own imagination.

So he defines the church falsely, and then wants us to respond according to his definition.


The concept comes from the metaphor of a straw man (or scarecrow). The straw man is not a real man. It’s a fake representation (e.g. a caricature) of one.


Similarly, in the strawman fallacy, the person rebutting an argument isn’t engaging in good faith with the real argument. Instead, they will argue against a caricature of the real argument. They’re “constructing a straw man” in their rebuttal.

Much love!

St. SteVen said:

What sort of monster would create such a thing? The most sadist tyrant imaginable.

How does it work and what is the purpose?
There is no purpose other than eternal torment on the grandest scale.
We have all experienced a burn at some point in our lives.

Maybe we touched the stove. We immediately removed our hand,
And learned an important lesson. NEVER touch the stove.

We are also familiar with the burn ward at the hospital.
Severe burn victims are treated there. Recovery is horrible.
Requiring skin grafts and a slow and painful healing process.

Yet no human has fallen into a volcano (lake of fire) and survived.
Is this what God has planned for those who refuse the free gift of eternal life?
Seems pretty harsh. Receive the free gift of eternal life, or if you prefer
you will be incinerated. That is one VERY expensive FREE GIFT.

Imagine being thrown into a volcano. What a horrible thing. But wait...
That's not the end. God has created this lake of fire so that you cannot die.
You will endure this torture with no hope of escape.


Couldn't this have been avoided with a simple discussion?
Ten seconds in hell would be enough for anyone to get the message.

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What "sort of monster"? No "monster," but our just Judge. If we spend our whole lives rejecting or ignoring God, he has every right as our God of justice to let us have our own way without him throughout eternity. After all, he created us to honor him. If we don't, he lets us have "outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Mat_8:12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Mat_13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat_13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat_22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Mat_24:51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat_25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Luk_13:28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

Bruce-Leiter said:

What "sort of monster"? No "monster," but our just Judge. If we spend our whole lives rejecting or ignoring God, he has every right as our God of justice to let us have our own way without him throughout eternity. After all, he created us to honor him. If we don't, he lets us have "outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Mat_8:12 while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Mat_13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat_13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat_22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Mat_24:51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat_25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Luk_13:28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

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Are these verses speaking to the fate of establishment Jews that rejected Jesus culminating in 70 AD?

NotTheRock said:

Are these verses speaking to the fate of establishment Jews that rejected Jesus culminating in 70 AD?

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In Matthew 8, Jesus is talking about the coming of his kingdom, when all the people who thought that they will be part of it will lose out, and Gentiles like the Roman centurion will enter it.

In chapter 13, it is Jesus' explanation of the Parables of the Weeds and the Wheat and the Fishing Net concerning the end of the age:

Mat 13:40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.
Mat 13:48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.
Mat 13:49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
Mat 13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

In chapter 24, Jesus combines his descriptions of the destruction of the temple and his second coming and follows them with a parable at the end:

Mat 24:48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’
Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards,
Mat 24:50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know
Mat 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The end of the age has yet to come:

Luk 13:23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them,
Luk 13:24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’
Luk 13:26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’
Luk 13:27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’
Luk 13:28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.
Luk 13:29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God.
Luk 13:30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

The scope of Jesus' description in all these passages is much larger than the Jews who experience the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70; it involves all of humanity.

Taken said:

God created Hell

A place for those who did not want to BE With God In The Place He created For Himself and the Angels and humans that WANT to be WITH God.

Are you criticizing God for Not creating some place of Beauty for His creations that stand Against Him?

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Yes and people who do the right thing is what God wants !
For they who want to do the wrong thing, clearly have no respect for others or them selves or God in fact, but they have free choise. They cause Hell for others !
So they have a Place set for them, The Hot Motel !