Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
When do you think that the "sudden destruction" that Paul said will occur in relation to the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night will occur (1 Thess 5:2-3)?
The Relationship Between Israel and the Church
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. One coming in two parts? That's complete nonsense. You obviously have no interest in being taken seriously, just like many others on this forum.
What can I say, I'm sorry that you're not able to distinguish the spiritual from the physical. Might as well give up on Amill because you're not reading any of the scriptures in the proper context. Perhaps when that pesky mark comes along, you'll rethink things.
You need to move out of the old covenant. The physical means nothing today. Have you not read what Christ and the NT writers taught?
Those who claim that all the references to Israel in the New Testament must refer to the whole physical nation of ethnic Israel as a collective whole fail to grasp the new covenant arrangement and the explanation and expansion of terms. They ignore the detailed teaching of the inspired writers on this subject, the spiritual application of terms and the major distinctions they make on the matter. These same people normally suggest that the whole nation of natural Israel (regardless of spiritual status) is God’s chosen people. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Acts 10:34: “God is no respecter of persons.”
Romans 2:25 tells us: “if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.”
Romans 2:28-29 plainly states, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.”
Romans 9:6-8. “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 10:12 states: “For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”
I Corinthians 7:17 declares, “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing"
Colossians 3:11 declares, “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."
Galatians 3:28 says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 5:2 declares, “if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
Galatians 5:5 declares, "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."
Galatians 6:15 reinforces that, saying, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.”
Race means nothing to God any more, it is all of grace. Being natural means nothing when it comes to salvation. That is a myth that conflicts with New Testament teaching.
Jesus and the New Testament writers do not present Israel as a unitary whole but rather as a divided entity consisting of 2 distinct and divergent camps of citizens. What is more, they do not attribute God’s favor to those who reject Christ. Quite the opposite.
The unbelieving Jews boasted to Jesus, “Abraham is our father” (John 8:39).
He responded: “If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” (vv 39-45).
Let us establish: Jesus is talking to ethnic Israelis. He is talking to religious Jews. He is talking to the physical offspring of Abraham. Many Jews in Jesus day imagined that they were specially chosen of God on the grounds of their racial standing. He demonstrates that favor with God does not come through national / religious status. According to Jesus, those who belong to God “love” Jesus and “believe” His words. Those who don’t, don’t.
John the Baptist also had to deal with the proud delusional superior religious spirit that existed among the Jews 2,000 years ago. Luke 3:7-9 tells us: “Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.”
John the Baptist was teaching: natural progeny means nothing. He was showing that it was rather a spiritual lineage through faith in Christ. Spiritual fruit alone was the criterion for being a true child of Abraham. He confirmed: God was not restricted to the physical descendants of Abraham. He could raise up a new heritage from the stones of the earth.
The New Testament shows us that there is general apostate Israel and then there is faithful believing Israel. Paul the Apostle describes these 2 distinct and divergent camps as the “blinded” (or in other translations the “hardened”) and “the election” (or in other translations “the elect”), (Romans 11:7). He also calls them variously as “vessel unto dishonour” (Romans 9:21) or “vessels of wrath fitted to destruction” (Romans 9:22) and “vessel unto honour” (Romans 9:21) or “vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory” (Romans 9:23). The first describes the general majority of Christ-rejecting ethnic Israelis. The second a believing elect remnant within that nation. The same applies to each generation since the earthly ministry of Christ. The same applies today.
God’s people are not a physical race but a spiritual race.
The called of God, the people of God, God’s elect, are believers of all nations throughout the world, who have put their trust in Christ. God’s believing made up of Jews and Gentiles are the ones who are vessels for honor and vessels for mercy.
What comes after this is the general resurrection/judgment, then the eternal state. Men are either in the Lake of Fire or the new perfected earth then. Men are either perfected (glorified) or enduring eternal punishment. There is no other option.
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All you have is your opinions in post after post. You are incapable of engaging in biblical discussions. You have nothing of scriptural weight to bring to the table to support your error. All you have is the religious cliches you have been taught.
Please stop avoiding Scripture after Scripture and argument after argument.
It is a testimony that your position is untenable.
I have showed you above that what comes after this is the general resurrection/judgment is the eternal state. Men are either in the Lake of Fire or the new perfected earth then. Men are either perfected (glorified) or enduring eternal punishment. There is no other option.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You have proven to be completely incapable of backing up your opinions with any kind of coherent argument using what is written in the Bible. You should take a step back from here and ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7) and start over. Because almost everything you currently believe about eschatology is false.
You need more than private unbiblical opinions. You need hard corroborated Scripture.
Yes He has. Jesus introduced a new covenant. Check the NT. It occurred at the cross. Only those who enter into that covenant by faith will make it. I highlight recommend you embrace it.
When Jesus instituted the Lord’s supper in Matthew 26:28, which represented His shed blood for the remission of our sins, He declared: “this is my blood of the new testament [diathēkē], which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Jesus was speaking here about His death! The Greek word here “testament” is diathēkē meaning covenant or testament. The shedding of His blood, which expressly secured “the remission of sins” for His elect, constituted “the new covenant.”
diathēkē is a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament. A testament is exactly the same as a covenant. It is the exact same word and meaning. Basically, the terms "covenant" and "testament" are interchangeable and synonymous. They are translations of the same Greek word.
The covenant is a testament, a will. A will cannot come into force unless the covenant maker dies first.
Mark 14:24 parallels: “he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.”
Luke 22:19-20 agrees: “And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”
Some seem content to partake in what they deny.
1 Corinthians 11:24-26: “And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”
Believers are asked to remember the Lord's death – which is “the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in [His] blood” – until He returns. “The new covenant” is here identified with “the Lord's death.” There is no way around it.
They aren't unbiblical opinions, there are just too many scriptures to list, but you reject everything dealing w/ the OT so why bother.
LOL. More avoidance. That is all Premils have. They cannot present one single corroborating text for their opinion of Rev 20. That is because it is a false doctrine.
Premil has to invent two new earths.
Secondly, the Premillennial millennium seems to be a re-run of this current age with all the bondage of corruption (including sin, death, decay, wickedness, rebellion) not only continuing but prospering in the Premillennial paradigm. You aspire to an evolving millennium that gradually and increasingly becomes glorious with the supposed "continued progressive increase and growth through the government of Jesus." However, when we analysis your millennium it is seen to be the opposite. Rather than it being a progressively glorious age, it regressively degenerates into sin, death, rebellion and war. Rather than the wicked and wickedness being subjugated, the opposite occurs – they prosper and increase. The Premillennial millennium culminates in the greatest global uprising in history from the four corners of the earth as the sand of the sea against the camp of the saints. Scripture knows nothing of such a process. Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between "this present time" or age and the eternal "age to come." This seems to be in contradiction to many Scriptures.
The only thing that enjoys biblical corroboration is that the end of the millennium is the second coming.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that you don't think the new covenant is in effect right now?
How do I say that it is a mandatory suggestion? The covenant was not with us, but we can still use the laws therein.
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