The Relationship Between Israel and the Church

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

WPM said:
Yes He has. Jesus introduced a new covenant. Check the NT. It occurred at the cross. Only those who enter into that covenant by faith will make it. I highlight recommend you embrace it.

When Jesus instituted the Lord’s supper in Matthew 26:28, which represented His shed blood for the remission of our sins, He declared: “this is my blood of the new testament [diathēkē], which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

Jesus was speaking here about His death! The Greek word here “testament” is diathēkē meaning covenant or testament. The shedding of His blood, which expressly secured “the remission of sins” for His elect, constituted “the new covenant.”

diathēkē is a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament. A testament is exactly the same as a covenant. It is the exact same word and meaning. Basically, the terms "covenant" and "testament" are interchangeable and synonymous. They are translations of the same Greek word.

The covenant is a testament, a will. A will cannot come into force unless the covenant maker dies first.

Mark 14:24 parallels: “he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.”

Luke 22:19-20 agrees: “And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.”

Some seem content to partake in what they deny.

1 Corinthians 11:24-26: “And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”

Believers are asked to remember the Lord's death – which is “the new testament [diathēkē or covenant] in [His] blood” – until He returns. “The new covenant” is here identified with “the Lord's death.” There is no way around it.

How can any Christian not understand what the new covenant is and that it is currently in effect? It's scary to see the lack of discernment of many people on this forum.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
How do I say that it is a mandatory suggestion? The covenant was not with us, but we can still use the laws therein.

Where do you get your beliefs from? Clearly, not from the Bible. The new covenant applies to all believers. Your sins can't be forgiven apart from Christ's blood of the new covenant. To say that the new covenant is not with us is like saying Jesus didn't die for us. How can you not know an elementary thing like this? Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

Spiritual Israelite said:
How can any Christian not understand what the new covenant is and that it is currently in effect? It's scary to see the lack of discernment of many people on this forum.

How do the Jews get around the fact that the Old Testament covenant is outdated. They update it as if they still have an agreement with God.

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

Spiritual Israelite said:
Where do you get your beliefs from? Clearly, not from the Bible. The new covenant applies to all believers. Your sins can't be forgiven apart from Christ's blood of the new covenant. To say that the new covenant is not with us is like saying Jesus didn't die for us. How can you not know an elementary thing like this? Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

It get the pre-40 AD rapture from the New Testament. Some are gone because someone Jesus, came like a thief in his second coming. He did not say, I come in the far future, like many seem to think.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

Trekson said:
They aren't unbiblical opinions, there are just too many scriptures to list, but you reject everything dealing w/ the OT so why bother.

Making false accusations towards others does not help your case. Unlike Premils, we Amils allow the NT to interpret the OT for us as much as possible. It's much easier that way. But, Premils like to try to do things the hard way and that leads to false beliefs.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
How do the Jews get around the fact that the Old Testament covenant is outdated. They update it as if they still have an agreement with God.

What does this have to do with what I said? You seem to have a very serious reading comprehension problem. Are you aware of that?

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

Spiritual Israelite said:
Making false accusations towards others does not help your case.

And ...? Does it look that I intentionally do such a thing?

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

WPM said:
Premil has to invent two new earths.

Secondly, the Premillennial millennium seems to be a re-run of this current age with all the bondage of corruption (including sin, death, decay, wickedness, rebellion) not only continuing but prospering in the Premillennial paradigm. You aspire to an evolving millennium that gradually and increasingly becomes glorious with the supposed "continued progressive increase and growth through the government of Jesus." However, when we analysis your millennium it is seen to be the opposite. Rather than it being a progressively glorious age, it regressively degenerates into sin, death, rebellion and war. Rather than the wicked and wickedness being subjugated, the opposite occurs – they prosper and increase. The Premillennial millennium culminates in the greatest global uprising in history from the four corners of the earth as the sand of the sea against the camp of the saints. Scripture knows nothing of such a process. Scripture make no mention of, or allowance for, any imperfect semi-glorious/semi-corrupt transitional age in-between "this present time" or age and the eternal "age to come." This seems to be in contradiction to many Scriptures.

The only thing that enjoys biblical corroboration is that the end of the millennium is the second coming.

Agree completely. The Premil view makes Christ's reign during the thousand years a complete failure because everything just falls apart in the end making a thousand years of supposed peace and bliss on the earth with Jesus Himself there in all His glory all amount to nothing. They think that in a short time Satan is able to have more influence on people than Jesus would have for a thousand years. Premil just makes no sense whatsoever.

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

WPM said:
The only thing that enjoys biblical corroboration is that the end of the millennium is the second coming.

I don't see the biblical corroboration. I think it is lacking.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
And ...? Does it look that I intentionally do such a thing?

I was not even talking to you. Slow down and pay attention to who is actually speaking and pay attention to what is actually being said.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

Spiritual Israelite said:
I was not even talking to you. Slow down and pay attention to who is actually speaking and pay attention to what is actually being said.

@MonoBiblical Why are you angry with what I said here? You responded to me as if I was talking to you and I was not. I was talking to Trekson. If you look at that post again, you can see that. Don't be mad at me just because you are not being careful to pay attention to who people are talking to.

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

I have got to slow down, and respond to fewer posts.

Spiritual Israelite · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:

What is the reason for this response? I can't figure you out at all. Is there something wrong with me pointing out that I wasn't talking to you in the post that you responded to in which you thought I was talking to you?

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

Spiritual Israelite said:
What is the reason for this response? I can't figure you out at all. Is there something wrong with me pointing out that I wasn't talking to you in the post that you responded to in which you thought I was talking to you?

Please forget about; and move on. I have forgotten the real reason, and I think I was mistaken. sorry.

WPM · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
I don't see the biblical corroboration. I think it is lacking.

Repeated NT Scripture shows the second coming as the time of the resurrection of the dead and the judgment of all mankind. It is the time when man receives his eternal reward. It is the only time when the corrupt creation passes away. This is the time when mankind enters into the eternal state. This correlates with the end of the millennium/Satan's little season.

I will be happy to go through text after text to show that.

WPM · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
How do the Jews get around the fact that the Old Testament covenant is outdated. They update it as if they still have an agreement with God.

How? The only covenant today is the new covenant. Have they embraced Christ?

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

WPM said:
Repeated NT Scripture shows the second coming as the time of the resurrection of the dead and the judgment of all mankind. It is the time when man receives his eternal reward. It is the only time when the corrupt creation passes away. This is the time when mankind enters into the eternal state. This correlates with the end of the millennium/Satan's little season.

I will be happy to go through text after text to show that.

I would be happy to piece together a non-futurist post-millennial

document also.

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

WPM said:
How? The only covenant today is the new covenant. Have they embraced Christ?

The old covenant was merely fulfilled by new covenant.

WPM · Apr 10, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
I would be happy to piece together a non-futurist post-millennial document also.

Explain what you believe.

MonoBiblical · Apr 10, 2026

WPM said:
Explain what you believe.

Not in one day. nothing personal.

The Relationship Between Israel and the Church

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads