JESUS DIED ONLY FOR THE NATION ISRAEL

Papa Smurf · Apr 17, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
Dying for sins could imply someone advocated them.

What?

So, it's your belief that God chose to come here as a man and die on the Cross for us, NOT because He chose to love us and (mercifully/graciously) chose to save us, but because He, 1. caused us to sin, and then 2. felt guilty for doing so?

If this is true, then what you are actually saying is that God is a sinner and guilty of sinning against all of us, that He knows that it was morally wrong of Him to do so, and that He is, in point of fact, evil, rather than good (and that He is the One, then, who needs a Savior, not us).

Before I comment further about any of this I need to ask, are these ideas simply musings on your part, or is this what you have come to believe about God?

Thanks!

--Papa Smurf

Papa Smurf · Apr 17, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
There is a difference between pardoning sins and atoning them. Perhaps, while some can have their pardoned by God, only the someone can atone for them. Forgiveness, pardon, and atonement are different.

I agree with you, though the difference between forgiving someone and pardoning them is slight (as @Wick Stick already mentioned).

That said, the answer that you gave me (in Post #67) does not answer the question that I asked you, so I'll try to restate it in another way.

You seem to be saying that we need to atone for our own sins, but the Bible tells us that we cannot do so. This is, first and foremost, the principal reason that He came here as a man, to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves, which He did by dying on the Cross in our stead and becoming, then, the "atoning sacrifice" (propitiation/satisfaction) for our sins .. e.g. 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10, so that we can be forgiven by God.

If you believe, instead, that we must atone for our own sins, my question is, what does that look like/how do we do that :IDK:

Thanks!

--Papa Smurf

Hebrews 9

22 All things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

.

Papa Smurf · Apr 17, 2026

Hello again @MonoBiblical, I noticed that a 10-part teaching series on the Atonement (by R C Sproul) is available to listen to now for free (online), and I thought it might want to consider what it has to say. I believe each part of the series is between 21-22 minutes long because it was originally made to be part of Dr. Sproul's radio broadcast ministry some years ago (www.renewingyourmind.org).

Here's the link to the series: The Atonement of Jesus by R.C. Sproul | Ligonier Ministries

Enjoy :)

--Papa Smurf

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JESUS DIED ONLY FOR THE NATION ISRAEL

Papa Smurf

Well-Known Member

Papa Smurf

Well-Known Member

Papa Smurf

Well-Known Member

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