Paul's Gospel

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Wick Stick

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There are plenty but, even though older sources, the books from most authors are still copyrighted and sold on Amazon, so you probably will not find much online, (hardly anyone is interested in such studies now days anyway).

1) "The Nature of Word Division in Ancient Hebrew Manuscripts
Ancient Hebrew script, as preserved in the earliest stages of its transmission, was written without spaces between words. This scriptio continua, or continuous writing, characterized Hebrew writing until the later stages of the Second Temple period. In the earliest Hebrew inscriptions, such as the Gezer Calendar (ca. 925 B.C.E.) and the Siloam Inscription (ca. 701 B.C.E.), word division was either entirely absent or inconsistently indicated through minimal spacing or the use of small dots. The absence of consistent spacing was not a sign of carelessness but rather reflected the scribal conventions of the time. The reader was expected to recognize word boundaries through contextual familiarity and linguistic intuition."

Note that the above author, by the end of the article, (under the heading "Conclusion"), reveals how terribly the modern text of the Meshiah-rejecting Masoretes has blinded him to the ancient reality he somewhat recognizes in the quote above. He never even mentions the fact that we have a plethora of Tanakh quotes from the Apostolic writers that do not match the Masorete text, (which did not exist until a thousand years later anyway).
Thank you. I am less a fan of the Masoretic text than this author, as you seem to be as well.

The idea of "dividing Scripture" is new to me, but it doesn't seem much different than the issue of adding diacritical marks to enforce a single interpretation. The problem for both: if the original WAS ambiguous, then the ideal translation (uh... separation) would preserve the ambiguity. Instead, the Masoretes actively sought to remove all ambiguity.
The waw/vav in the original Ashuri script from Babylon played three roles: the formation of words, the particle of continuance, ("and", etc.), and the word separator. And because the text already had the word separators within it, yes in deed, it was surely written in a scriptio continua form.
Ah man, now I've got to question every word with an internal vav to see if it should be split in two
The following blogster unfortunately appears to be a Kabbalist, (which I am certainly not), and I believe he goes a little overboard in some ways, however, his overall argument is sound, and if true, answers some important questions regarding this topic. For example, if indeed the Torah was written as if to be a single super long thread of letters from the beginning to the end, it would surely explain the reason why practically every verse begins with the waw/vav in its function as the particle of continuance. There are other things also but I'll leave it at that.

I'm not much of a mystic, either. I do find that Kabbalah articulates ideas of emanation and gnosis somewhat more clearly than other gnostic literature. So not completely worthless, even if it isn't top of my reading list.
According to Ezekiel the Prophet the sons of Tzadok remained faithful and they were rewarded for it:

Ezekiel 44:10-16 KJV
10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.
12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:
16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.

The sons of Tzadok are those who went to Damashek-Qumran after they were deposed from the priesthood in the time of Antiochus 4, when the Hasmonean-Maccabees usurped the priesthood and introduced the lunisolar Babylonian calendar. The same group, the sons of Tzadok, continued in their faithfulness as exhibited in their writings.
Well, he says they didn't abandon the faith when they went to Babylon. For most of the Bible, though, the priests are rarely faithful. Aaron himself made the molten calf. His sons were quite wicked. There were similar problems with Eli's children. Most of the Levites jumped ship in the verses quoted. I am... skeptical... of the idea that there was a group of priests who abided in faithfulness for centuries.

If this were so, why did they not recognize their Messiah? Not heed his words to flee destruction at the Romans hands? Why then was there a need for the entire Levitical priesthood to be done away with?
 

dak

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Thank you. I am less a fan of the Masoretic text than this author, as you seem to be as well.

:Thumbsup:

The idea of "dividing Scripture" is new to me, but it doesn't seem much different than the issue of adding diacritical marks to enforce a single interpretation. The problem for both: if the original WAS ambiguous, then the ideal translation (uh... separation) would preserve the ambiguity. Instead, the Masoretes actively sought to remove all ambiguity.

I absolutely agree. The reason is because the niqqud, (pointing system of the Masorete text), is a literal Pharisee commentary embedded right into the Hebrew text: = only one way to read it, the Pharisee way.

Ah man, now I've got to question every word with an internal vav to see if it should be split in two

Lol, nah, as for me, I have the LXX and the Apostolic writings to help me just fine with that.

If this were so, why did they not recognize their Messiah? Not heed his words to flee destruction at the Romans hands? Why then was there a need for the entire Levitical priesthood to be done away with?

Who says they didn't recognize and believe, or, at least some of them? There is not enough material from Qumran to decide that either way, and that is, by the way, Damashek: who can prove whether Paul went to Damascus of Syria or Damascus-Qumran when he was confronted by the Master? There is are reasons within the scripture why they called the location of their Yahad, (Community), Damashek. However that information would require a whole different thread of its own. Food for thought.
 

Wick Stick

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Who says they didn't recognize and believe, or, at least some of them?
The siege of Masada means some of them definitely did NOT.

Some of them could have. Actually, since they were baptizers, I suspect that they were familiar with John and prepped to accept Jesus as the Teacher of Righteousness and/or the second coming of Melchizedek some were expecting.
There is not enough material from Qumran to decide that either way,
Agreed, but there are some tantalizing overlaps. For instance, when Jesus reads at Synagogue in Luke 4, the passage of Scripture used (Isa 11) is the same one used in a Messianic way in the Melchizedek scroll (11Q13). Jesus explanation of the passage?

Luke 4:21 This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

The passage in Isaiah is already Messianic,* so it could be nothing. Or, it could be Jesus claiming to be the second coming of Melchizedek that the Essenes were expecting. I suspect the people in the audience might have taken either meaning. Or both.

*But less Messianic after the Masoretes... "The Masoretic version of 11:4 differs slightly from the Septuagint (LXX) or Dead Sea Scrolls (1QIsa) in nuances regarding the "rod" vs "word" of his mouth, which are likely due to differences in vowel pointing or subtle textual variations that the Masoretes standardized"
and that is, by the way, Damashek: who can prove whether Paul went to Damascus of Syria or Damascus-Qumran when he was confronted by the Master? There is are reasons within the scripture why they called the location of their Yahad, (Community), Damashek. However that information would require a whole different thread of its own. Food for thought.
I'm aware of this. They seemed to have alternate names for several cities. Jerusalem-called-Babylon seems to show up in Revelation in our Bibles. Revelation also seems to share the Essene's affinity for applying the book of Daniel to their current events. More overlaps
 
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dak

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Perhaps I might feel differently after I've read more examples, but... right now this seems like a needless splitting of hairs. Hebrew parallels set ELHM and YHVH to the same meaning, from David onward. It seems to follow that Theos and Kurios are often equivalent, though Kurios has some wiggle room in it (e.g. Psa 110:1).

It seems you are are identifying YH as someone other than YHVH. That seems unlikely to me given the theophoric naming. Who then? Yeshua? He is rightly identified as DBR~YHVH for the most part. Can you show me where DBR~YHVH is set equal to YH in parallelism? I don't see that happening.

John 1:1 and Jesus’ Sonship in Adoptionist thought - Post#238

@Wick Stick - A second strong confirmation from Paul.

In the two quotes to follow Paul is quoting not from the Hebrew text but from the OG-LXX, (Old Greek Septuagint). There are many places in the OG LXX where the Tetragrammaton is actually divided at the waw, producing Yah, which would have appeared that way in the Paleo Hebrew text but do not now appear that way in the M/T, which is not likely due to anything nefarious, but because of the problem of separating the Ashuri text, (having a waw separator and written in a semi-scriptio continua form like the older Paleo text), if perhaps you no longer had the Paleo text to guide you in that separation process. Another thing which is critical to understand is that Yah may be rendered as either Kurios or Theos in the LXX, and here Yah is rendered as Theos, and this is really only evident because we have now both the LXX and the Hebrew texts to investigate and compare, to get an idea of what has happened.

Philippians 2:9-11
9 Wherefore also Elohim highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name: [that is named, Eph 1:21]
10 that in the name of Ι̅Η every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Κ̅Ϲ Ι̅Η Χ̅Ρ, to the glory of Elohim the Father.

The above contains two portions from Yeshayah 45:23, (LXX), but they are not the larger precise quote: for he also quotes from this passage almost verbatim in Romans 14:11, where he likewise quotes from the OG LXX. Why is he not quoting from the Hebrew since he clearly knew Hebrew like the back of his hand, having formerly been a Pharisee the son of Pharisees? (moreover the Master spoke to him in Hebrew during the conversion vision near Damascus). After the Hebrew text was rendered into Greek, (beginning about circa 285BC), the Pharisees, not long after, began to separate the Hebrew text their own way, according to their understandings and doctrines regarding the scripture text.

This was a process that was not completely finalized until about 1000AD, and the beginning of this process can first be seen in scrolls and fragments discovered at Damascus-Qumran, (Qumran by the modern Arabic name Khirbet Qumran). It appears to me that Paul had realized that even in his day the Perushim were already beginning to subvert the Hebrew text: for they went against the precedent set by those who separated the text before them in order to render it into the Greek OG LXX. And we know that at the very least those who rendered the Torah portions of the LXX would have been Tzadokim, the order of the highest priestly line through the sons of Tzadok the Kohen, for no one but the Kohanim were allowed to copy Torah scrolls besides the Kohanim and Levim, even down to the days wherein the LXX began to be translated. Howbeit, aside from all the arguments pertaining to such things, Paul quotes from the OG LXX, knowing Hebrew, which is significant in this much more critical instance than other passage quotes.

Romans 14:11
11 For it is written, As I live, says the LORD, (YHWH), every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess by God.

Romans 14:11 (N/A, T/R, BYZ, W/H, all the same)
11 γεγραπται γαρ ζω εγω λεγει κυριος οτι εμοι καμψει παν γονυ και πασα γλωσσα εξομολογησεται τω θεω

In the above, which is quoted from the OG LXX, the Tetragrammaton is divided in the middle at the waw, exactly where we read τω θεω, thus we see that the Kohen who rendered this text into the Greek OG LXX separated the text radically different than the Masoretes who came along much later: and herein Paul approves the separation of the text found in the OG LXX. And because we know that the Tetragrammaton is in the Hebrew text; one should therefore know and understand that Theos in this case cannot be Elohim, (God), and is surely therefore YH, (Yah).

Isaiah 45:23-25 OG LXX
23 κατ εμαυτου ομνυω η μην εξελευσεται εκ του στοματος μου δικαιοσυνη οι λογοι μου ουκ αποστραφησονται οτι εμοι καμψει παν γονυ και εξομολογησεται πασα γλωσσα τω θεω
24 λεγων δικαιοσυνη και δοξα προς αυτον ηξουσιν και αισχυνθησονται παντες οι αφοριζοντες εαυτους
25 απο κυριου δικαιωθησονται και εν τω θεω ενδοξασθησονται [Hebrew reads hallu] παν το σπερμα των υιων ισραηλ

The answer using both the Hebrew and the OG LXX:

Yeshayah 45:23-25
[23] By Myself have I sworn, the righteous Word has gone forth from My mouth and shall not be turned back, that unto Me every knee shall bow: and every tongue shall surely confess by Yah unto Me, saying, He is my righteousness and strength!
[24] All those incensed against Him shall come and be ashamed: [25] by YHWH shall they be justified, and all the seed of Yisrael shall hallu-in-Yah!
[End Quote.

The LXX separation of the Hebrew text is in this manner:

ישעה 45:23 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)
בי נשבעתי יצא מפי צדקה דבר ולא ישוב כי־לי תכרע כל־ברך תשבע כל־לשון׃
ישעה
45:24 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)
אך ביהוה לי אמר צדקות ועז עדיו יבוא ויבשו כל הנחרים בו׃

In the OG LXX the waw, (in red), is read merely as a word separator and dropped from the text:

בי נשבעתי יצא מפי צדקה דבר ולא ישוב כי־לי תכרע כל־ברך תשבע כל־לשון אך ביהוה לי

ביהה < ביהוה = "in/by YAH WHO IS"

MAJOR CLUE:

Karkom19s.jpg


See also:
 

shepherdsword

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There are plenty but, even though older sources, the books from most authors are still copyrighted and sold on Amazon, so you probably will not find much online, (hardly anyone is interested in such studies now days anyway).

1) "The Nature of Word Division in Ancient Hebrew Manuscripts
Ancient Hebrew script, as preserved in the earliest stages of its transmission, was written without spaces between words. This scriptio continua, or continuous writing, characterized Hebrew writing until the later stages of the Second Temple period. In the earliest Hebrew inscriptions, such as the Gezer Calendar (ca. 925 B.C.E.) and the Siloam Inscription (ca. 701 B.C.E.), word division was either entirely absent or inconsistently indicated through minimal spacing or the use of small dots. The absence of consistent spacing was not a sign of carelessness but rather reflected the scribal conventions of the time. The reader was expected to recognize word boundaries through contextual familiarity and linguistic intuition."
I read a book by Richard Wurmbrand years ago(35). He mentioned a legend from the Kabbala which stated that God spoke the entire Torah to Moses in one continuous word, without any breaks. I wonder if that had any influence on them?
 

Brakelite

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oh so as I thought. You believe we must save ourselves by our works. But I alreadyknew that

Yes. our works will be judged and we will recieve reward or watch our works burned.

But our works have zero part in whether we will get to heaven or not.

No it does not. if your tryign to get to God with your works. you will fail.. period..

there is only one way and one work to secure your eternal salvation and that is the cross

You just contradicted yourself my friend.. You can not have it both ways. thats why legalism crashes and burns, it can not agree with itself..
Let me see if I can state the situation more clearly. The gospel is a process of salvation., beginning at the cross. The cross items the way of communication and grants man legal status before God. We are then justified. But justification gives us legal rights, not fitness rights. We need to be changed. Sanctified. Proven as fit candidates for the kingdom by a change of character. That change in character produces works. Fruits of righteousness. Fruit of the Spirit.
Works are for rewards? Yes, but that's not all. When was the last time you read the parable of the sheep and the goats?? How were they judged? And what was the result?
 

dak

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I read a book by Richard Wurmbrand years ago(35). He mentioned a legend from the Kabbala which stated that God spoke the entire Torah to Moses in one continuous word, without any breaks. I wonder if that had any influence on them?

The blogger I link to, whom I said appears to be a Kabbalist, did himself mention that Jewish legend. The other links and scholars I referenced and linked to were coming from a rather strictly Christian textual criticism standpoint.
 

dak

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The siege of Masada means some of them definitely did NOT.

Some of them could have. Actually, since they were baptizers, I suspect that they were familiar with John and prepped to accept Jesus as the Teacher of Righteousness and/or the second coming of Melchizedek some were expecting.

They found "Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice", a text found also at Qumran, along with many other texts that look to have been from Qumran or at least texts and themes of the same type, as well as many scripture texts.


Maybe the foolish ones who rejected Paul's preaching and even tried to kill him ended up at Masada? sml

Agreed, but there are some tantalizing overlaps. For instance, when Jesus reads at Synagogue in Luke 4, the passage of Scripture used (Isa 11) is the same one used in a Messianic way in the Melchizedek scroll (11Q13). Jesus explanation of the passage?

Luke 4:21 This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

The passage in Isaiah is already Messianic,* so it could be nothing. Or, it could be Jesus claiming to be the second coming of Melchizedek that the Essenes were expecting. I suspect the people in the audience might have taken either meaning. Or both.

*But less Messianic after the Masoretes... "The Masoretic version of 11:4 differs slightly from the Septuagint (LXX) or Dead Sea Scrolls (1QIsa) in nuances regarding the "rod" vs "word" of his mouth, which are likely due to differences in vowel pointing or subtle textual variations that the Masoretes standardized"

I don't understand. The quote from Luke 4:18-19 is from Isaiah 61:1-2a.
 

Wick Stick

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I don't understand. The quote from Luke 4:18-19 is from Isaiah 61:1-2a.
You're right. I screwed up a reference. I got Luke 4 right, but then I hit the cross-reference button and trusted the computer. Oof.

Here's the bit from the Melchizedek scroll, which actually quotes, as you said, Isaiah 61:

[And it will be proclaimed at] the end of days concerning the captives as [He said, To proclaim liberty to the captives (Isa. lxi, 1). Its interpretation is that He] will assign them to the Sons of Heaven and to the inheritance of Melchizedek; f[or He will cast] their [lot] amid the portions of Melchize]dek, who will return them there and will proclaim to them liberty, forgiving them [the wrong-doings] of all their iniquities.
 
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Brakelite

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oh so as I thought. You believe we must save ourselves by our works. But I alreadyknew that

Yes. our works will be judged and we will recieve reward or watch our works burned.

But our works have zero part in whether we will get to heaven or not.

No it does not. if your tryign to get to God with your works. you will fail.. period..

there is only one way and one work to secure your eternal salvation and that is the cross

You just contradicted yourself my friend.. You can not have it both ways. thats why legalism crashes and burns, it can not agree with itself..
Let me see if I can state the situation more clearly. The gospel is a process of salvation., beginning at the cross. The cross opens the way of communication and grants man legal status before God. We are then justified. But justification gives us legal rights, not fitness rights. We need to be changed. Sanctified. Proven as fit candidates for the kingdom by a change of character.
We must develop the fruits of the gift of righteousness... the fruits of the Spirit. We receive the Spirit by receiving Christ. We are changed into the image of Christ and have the mind of Christ. Those fruits and changes in character are exhibited through works and attitudes toward God and others.
The parable of the sheep and goats is a scene of judgement whereby those fruits, works, are judged as to whether the character has changed and your conversion real.
.
 
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Brakelite

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Let me see if I can state the situation more clearly. The gospel is a process of salvation., beginning at the cross. The cross opens the way of communication and grants man legal status before God. We are then justified. But justification gives us legal rights, not fitness rights. We need to be changed. Sanctified. Proven as fit candidates for the kingdom by a change of character.
We must develop the cross of the gift of righteousness... the fruits of the Spirit. We receive the Spirit by receiving Christ. We are changed into the image of Christ and have the mind of Christ. Those fruits and changes in character are exhibited through works and attitudes toward God and others.
The parable of the sheep and goats is a scene of judgement whereby those fruits, works, ate judged as to whether the character has changed and your convertion real.
.
Sorry about the repetitive essay.
 

dak

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James 1:1 and 2:1 specifies exactly who he is addressing, the 12 tribes, his brethren.
Which of the 12 tribes are you ?

The old audience relevance game, eh? So which of Paul's seven congregations are you from? Otherwise, according to your own view, Paul's words are not for you. :clmSmlx
 
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Dan Clarkston

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Paul is reminding the Galatians of a literal Gospel account which they had received from him.

If Paul was not teaching the Words of Jesus (Doctrine of Christ) then he is a false teacher that we should all withdraw from - according to Paul Himself

1 Timothy 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
 

Dan Clarkston

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Paul's words are not for you.

Here's the thing, those were not Paul's Words! Those were the Words of Jesus that the Holy Ghost told Paul to write down.

Those letters to those churches were instructions to members of the Body of Christ and are part of God's Canon tat we should use to shoot the devil with!

The biblical writers were not making stuff up and they were not writing their own thoughts.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 19:10
for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (God's Word is what 2 Peter 1:16-21 is speaking of)

2 Peter 1:21 is referring to that which Jesus (God's Word) has to say to mankind thru the written Word which is the oracles of God which came thru the descendants of Abraham

Romans 3:2
because that unto them were committed the oracles of God

Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13), and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Those that believe they don't need God's Word or believe there's no need to judge what they are getting in the Spirit to see if it agrees with God's Word are sadly deceived by the devil.

The devil's MO can be found in how he deceived Adam and Eve in to not believing God's Word.
 

dak

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If indeed you are a member then what gives you the right to cut off your brother and apostle Yakob, a.k.a. James, and make up fake excuses for pretending like his epistle and words do not apply to you? Where does Paul address any congregation called the church of the hyper dispensationalists?
 

dak

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Here's the thing, those were not Paul's Words! Those were the Words of Jesus that the Holy Ghost told Paul to write down.

Those letters to those churches were instructions to members of the Body of Christ and are part of God's Canon tat we should use to shoot the devil with!

The biblical writers were not making stuff up and they were not writing their own thoughts.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 19:10
for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (God's Word is what 2 Peter 1:16-21 is speaking of)

2 Peter 1:21 is referring to that which Jesus (God's Word) has to say to mankind thru the written Word which is the oracles of God which came thru the descendants of Abraham

Romans 3:2
because that unto them were committed the oracles of God

Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13), and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Those that believe they don't need God's Word or believe there's no need to judge what they are getting in the Spirit to see if it agrees with God's Word are sadly deceived by the devil.

The devil's MO can be found in how he deceived Adam and Eve in to not believing God's Word.

You have no clue what the conversation is about for having jumped in without understanding what you were reading. Read and quote the whole post if you wish to understand because you are way off target. I did not make a single line statement such as you have falsely quoted it: I said that was according to the other poster's own viewpoint. You must understand the whole conversation to be able to respond appropriately and in the true context. I don't need to hash it out with you because anyone else here can see what I wrote in the post. If this is the way you read and understand the scripture then you have much more to worry about than this conversation.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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You have no clue what the conversation is about for having jumped in without understanding what you were reading. Read and quote the whole post if you wish to understand because you are way off target. I did not make a single line statement such as you have falsely quoted it: I said that was according to the other poster's own viewpoint. You must understand the whole conversation to be able to respond appropriately and in the true context. I don't need to hash it out with you because anyone else here can see what I wrote in the post. If this is the way you read and understand the scripture then you have much more to worry about than this conversation.

And yet still - those were not Paul's Words! Those were the Words of Jesus that the Holy Ghost told Paul to write down.

Those not understanding how the Lord works do not understand that Jesus Christ is Personally responsible for the content of His Canon... in spite of man being involved.

Those not understanding this end up being nothing more than cherry pickers who don't accept the whole counsel of God and believe Jesus Christ was powerless and incapable of controlling what went in to His Canon.
 
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dak

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And yet still - those were not Paul's Words! Those were the Words of Jesus that the Holy Ghost told Paul to write down.

Those not understanding how the Lord works do not understand that Jesus Christ is Personally responsible for the content of His Canon... in spite of man being involved.

Those not understanding this end up being nothing more than cherry pickers who don't accept the whole counsel of God and believe Jesus Christ was powerless and incapable of controlling what went in to His Canon.

More circular and illogical argumentation. According to your view, the RCC was completely inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit in choosing your cannon, (minus the seven deuterocanonical books). Your cannon is not my canon: the Holy Spirit guided me to more books than what is in your RCC/Protestant canon.

What now? Why did the Holy Spirit not reveal to you the books that are in my canon? Will you say that I am deceived by an unclean spirit? or that you are simply more Holy Spirit inspired than me because you accepted the RCC canon handed down to you after seven deuterocanonical books were trimmed off by the Protestants?
 

Dan Clarkston

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More circular and illogical argumentation.

No, the Lord really did control what went in to His Canon.

Only those listening to the devil claim He doesn't have the power or ability to do so.


According to your view, the RCC was completely inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit in choosing your cannon

No, the Lord impressed upon people to throw books out the RCC wanted to put in


the Holy Spirit guided me to more books than what is in your RCC/Protestant canon.

That's the false "holy spirit" that's leading you to writings that don't agree with the Doctrine of Christ

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Why did the Holy Spirit not reveal to you the books that are in my canon?

Because your "holy spirit" is not the True Holy Spirit sent by Jesus to lead and guide in to all Truth

So if we're going to do this... go ahead and list the books you claim should have been in God's Canon that were removed or otherwise not included.
 
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dak

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No, the Lord really did control what went in to His Canon.

Only those listening to the devil claim He doesn't have the power or ability to do so.




No, the Lord impressed upon people to throw books out the RCC wanted to put in




That's the false "holy spirit" that's leading you to writings that don't agree with the Doctrine of Christ

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.




Because your "holy spirit" is not the True Holy Spirit sent by Jesus to lead and guide in to all Truth

So if we're going to do this... go ahead and list the books you claim should have been in God's Canon that were removed or otherwise not included.

You have just deleted yourself from the list of people I engage with. I want nothing to do with blasphemers of the Holy Spirit of my Father. I am admonished in the scripture not to even pray for you.

Nice chatting ... . ... tea.gif