Who, can Not Sin and Why?
- Thread starter Taken
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Here is a perfect example of Taken LYING! He chopped off most of my comment. My comment: "It bothers me when a professing Christian declares our Bible is written by Satan's children."
And remember Taken said he 'CANNOT lie'!
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Yes, God does not hand out possible salvation, but eternal salvation. Now the new Christian does not have to work for this salvation that God freely gives. Immediately he is confronted with the love of God.
Remember a person is not saved by holding on for dear life. And eternal condemnation is not related to a person's sins. Sins do not eternally condemn a person. Eternal Condemnation is the result of rejecting God's offer of salvation.
Minority View /
Few Chosen /
Already Sanctified /
Confidant IN Christ .
Glory to God,
Taken
License to sin!
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
Those who love the Lord, do not want to sin. Did you know that the word sin never appears in any eternal judgment passage?
I Cor 15 is a good example of that. But Paul says to turn that believer over to satan so that he will ultimately be saved/delivered.
Scripture please.
So you think Taken will be saved, even tho LYING, HATING gays, defending abortion?
I don't expect a clear answer. OSASers have lots of practice at dodging point blank questions.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Seriously?
If something doesn't exist, how do you suppose proof will be found for it's non-existance?
lol
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
This was the question you wanted scripture for, right?
Did you know that the word sin never appears in any eternal judgment passage?
The reason most people give for believers being able to lose their salvation is sin. Sins have all been paid for. Nobody's eternal destiny can be determined by sin. In fact, sins are not imputed to the person coming them, rather they were imputed to Christ on the Cross. (see 2 Cor 5). Also, Paul must have lied when he said nothing can separate us from the love of God (Rom 8). The reason most non-OSAS say believers can lose their salvation is because they fail to understand the love of God and the payment of the Cross. See the 2 Cor 5 passage where you will see that sins are not paid for by the sinner, but by Christ.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Mat 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Luk 17:6
And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
Obstacles. There will always be obstacles.
But if you have doubt you will fail.
And the doubt isn't about whether you are able to move the obstacle, the doubt is against God being able to move obstacles in your life.
The difference between the ones who say with Christ in me, I can not Sin, and those who believe that their own flesh is too weak to prevent sinning, is Faith.
Mat 21:21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Is this verse about a fig tree or a mountain, or is it about faith and doubt?
A lot of people think about the fig tree and the mountain and say I can't do.. I Can't do.
But Faith says, God Can.
If you believe and have faith that God Can and Will keep you from sinning, you can either have Faith or Doubt.
This is the same choice throughout the entire bible. Choose that which is good.
Deu 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16
In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17
But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deu 30:18
I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deu 30:20
That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
Faithfulness.
As long as there is a grain of doubt, you will never be truly free of Sin.
Doubt is like a mountain that stands between you and God.
If you have faith you can move that mountain.
Mar 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Faith isn't easy. Sometimes you have to put aside everything and just walk on the water.
And doubt is persistant. It will try to trip you up all along the journey.
Lord I can't...
God says, But I can, believe in me.
In this world, trust has just about left the building. Nobody trusts anyone or anything, anymore.
So you have to get over that mountain, and Trust God.
Hugs
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Luk 17:6
And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
Obstacles. There will always be obstacles.
But if you have doubt you will fail.
And the doubt isn't about whether you are able to move the obstacle, the doubt is against God being able to move obstacles in your life.
The difference between the ones who say with Christ in me, I can not Sin, and those who believe that their own flesh is too weak to prevent sinning, is Faith.
Mat 21:21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Is this verse about a fig tree or a mountain, or is it about faith and doubt?
A lot of people think about the fig tree and the mountain and say I can't do.. I Can't do.
But Faith says, God Can.
If you believe and have faith that God Can and Will keep you from sinning, you can either have Faith or Doubt.
This is the same choice throughout the entire bible. Choose that which is good.
Deu 30:15
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16
In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17
But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deu 30:18
I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deu 30:20
That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
Faithfulness.
As long as there is a grain of doubt, you will never be truly free of Sin.
Doubt is like a mountain that stands between you and God.
If you have faith you can move that mountain.
Mar 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Faith isn't easy. Sometimes you have to put aside everything and just walk on the water.
And doubt is persistant. It will try to trip you up all along the journey.
Lord I can't...
God says, But I can, believe in me.
In this world, trust has just about left the building. Nobody trusts anyone or anything, anymore.
So you have to get over that mountain, and Trust God.
Hugs
But Taken says he CANNOT sin. You're being EVASIVE!
Totally EVASIVE! You're defending SIN!
You should use biblical language the way the Bible uses it, not as it suits your beliefs. The NT mentions only believers and unbelievers. It is a false distinction you are making between "believers" and "converted believers," and "with God" and "with and in Christ." And that unnecessarily muddies the waters.
Every mention of "believer(s)" in the NT refers only to those who are truly converted and saved; unbelievers are those who are not. And, depending on precisely what you mean by "with God," no one can be with God if they are not in Christ.
With that said, the NT also makes it clear that believers can and do sin; anyone who says believers cannot sin or do not sin is self-deceived, doesn't have the truth in them, makes God a liar, and doesn't have his word in them (1 John 1:8-10).
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Pss .51
[13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Isa.60
[5] Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
Matt.13
[15] For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Matt.18
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mark.4
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Luke.22
[32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
John.12
[40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Acts.3
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts.28
[27] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
YOU can pick and choose which Scriptures Apply to YOU… by what YOU have or Have NOT done/ accomplished.
So ALSO can I.
I know What God Offered…
I know How (order and way) God established to Claim, Take, Have, Hold, Keep His Offering.
It is imperative YOU KNOW what WORDS Mean.
And WHO those words Apply To or Not…
and WHY.
You can quote Scripture; so can atheists. These tell me nothing--I have no idea what you think these passages say and how they pertain to what I said.
Why do you ignore other context in 1 John?
1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
Clearly John believes that believers sin, including himself. So, what is John saying in 3:9? First, it is better translated as:
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. (ESV)
John is saying that a believer cannot live a lifestyle of sin, that sin cannot be a habit, something that defines them. What he is not saying is that believers cannot or do not sin; he is giving an ideal.
If believers cannot sin, then much of the NT is pointless. There would be no need for any of the following:
Rom 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
Rom 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
Eph 4:17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds.
Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.
Eph 4:19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.
Eph 4:20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!—
Eph 4:21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus,
Eph 4:22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires,
Eph 4:23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds,
Eph 4:24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
Eph 4:25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger,
Eph 4:27 and give no opportunity to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Col 3:6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming.
Col 3:7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
Col 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Jas 1:21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
1Pe 2:1 So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander.
That is a very small sample of such commands. Any and every command to put away sin and do what is right and expected and become holy, is pointless if believers cannot sin. Not even Paul considered himself perfect:
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
If Paul didn't consider himself perfect and he clearly didn't consider other believers perfect, hence the commands to live how believers ought to live, then we shouldn't consider ourselves perfect either. That is in complete agreement with John that those who claim to be without sin are self-deceived, without the truth, make God a liar, and don't have his word in them.
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