A recent exchange with a reasoning AI pertaining to Matthew 24:15-30

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Davidpt

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This is clearly a gnostic futurist AI, with no "understanding" of physical history, and no "understanding" of physical reality.

Ask it if it "knows" that physical Jesus issued a physical warning to physical Judaeans in Matthew 24:16.
Ask it if it "knows" that physical Judaeans physically fled.
Ask it if it "knows" why physical Judaeans physically fled.
Ask it if it "knows" why physical Judaeans didn't spiritualize physical Jesus' warning.
Ask it if it "knows" that physical Jerusalem was physically destroyed in physical 70 AD.
Ask it why it "ignores" the physical history and reality of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Ask it if if "believes" that physical Christ has physically come in the physical flesh.
Ask it if it "knows" what hyperspiritualization is. :laughing:
Finally, tell it that it's not very smart. :laughing:

And here is this same AI's reply to that question I posed in #40. That's what the AI is addressing below. This same AI you insisted is clearly a gnostic futurist AI, lol.

----

This same AI I have been using throughout this thread:

No, those interpreters are not correct that a *strictly spiritual* sense is the only valid way to interpret these verses. In fact, the overwhelming consensus among biblical scholars—across evangelical, mainline, and Jewish spectrums—is that these verses were originally intended to be understood quite literally.

While biblical prophecy often contains symbolic or spiritual elements, interpreting Matthew 24:16-20 *only* spiritually ignores the highly specific, mundane, and physical details Jesus provides. Here are the primary reasons why a literal interpretation is not only valid but historically and grammatically necessary:

### 1. The Mundane Specificity of the Details
If this were meant to be purely spiritual, the imagery chosen is strangely practical. Jesus commands them not to go back into their house to get their "things" or to return to the field to get their "clothes." Spiritualizing these verses requires assigning abstract meanings to everyday physical items (e.g., "clothes" means "spiritual armor," "housetop" means "a high spiritual state"). It is a basic rule of biblical interpretation (hermeneutics) that if a text makes plain sense, seek no other sense.

### 2. First-Century Architectural Context
The command to not come down from the "housetop" is deeply rooted in first-century Jewish architecture. Houses in ancient Judaea had flat roofs used as living spaces, often accessed by external staircases. If a person was on the roof when the emergency struck, going *down* the external stairs and *into* the house to gather belongings would trap them when the enemy arrived. This is a highly practical, literal instruction for a specific physical environment.

### 3. Geographical and Chronological Constraints
Jesus specifies three literal constraints:
* **"Judaea" and "the mountains":** These are specific, physical locations. When the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem, the literal mountains (specifically across the Jordan River, into Perea, or the hill country of Ephraim) were the exact routes of escape.
* **"In the winter":** A literal seasonal constraint. Winter in Israel brings freezing temperatures, muddy roads, and swollen, impassable rivers (like the Jordan). Fleeing in winter would literally result in death from exposure or drowning.
* **"On the Sabbath day":** A literal calendar constraint. First-century Jewish law strictly prohibited traveling more than a short distance (a "Sabbath day's journey," roughly half a mile) on the Sabbath. Furthermore, the gates of Jerusalem would be locked on the Sabbath. Fleeing on this day would present massive logistical and religious hurdles for a Jewish audience.

### 4. Physical and Biological Realities
Jesus pronounces "woe" (a declaration of deep distress or tragedy) to those who are pregnant or nursing. This makes no sense in a purely spiritual framework. However, in a literal flight for one's life, pregnant women or mothers carrying infants would physically slow down a group, making them highly vulnerable to pursuing enemy soldiers.

### 5. The Immediate Historical Context (The Olivet Discourse)
To understand Matthew 24, you must look at what prompted it. In verse 1, the disciples point to the literal buildings of the Jerusalem Temple. In verse 2, Jesus literally predicts that "not one stone here will be left on another." The disciples then ask in verse 3, "When will this happen?" Verses 16-20 are Jesus' direct answer to how they should survive the literal destruction of the literal Temple.

### 6. Historical Fulfillment
These verses were literally fulfilled in 70 AD during the Roman siege of Jerusalem. The Jewish historian Josephus records that as the Roman general Titus encircled the city, the Christians in Jerusalem remembered Jesus' warning. According to the early church historian Eusebius (*Ecclesiastical History*, Book 3, Chapter 5), the believing Jews fled the city before the Roman trap closed, escaping to the literal city of Pella in the mountains of Perea. Because they left their belongings behind and moved quickly, their lives were spared while over a million Jews inside the city perished.

### Conclusion
Can these verses have a *secondary* spiritual application? Yes. Many pastors draw a spiritual principle from this text: when God calls you to leave your old life of sin, don't look back (like Lot's wife), and don't let earthly attachments weigh you down.

However, to claim that a spiritual sense is the *only* valid way to interpret them is to ignore the geographical, historical, cultural, and linguistic evidence. Jesus was giving His followers literal, life-saving instructions to survive a literal historical event.
 

Davidpt

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I use AI at times, but not to gain its insight per se, but so I can see its info index. Lets say I am arguing the 1290 and 1335 comes before the 1260 (they do) then without going into a deep dive, I can pretty much get every mention of this without putting firth much work, LOL.

But on the OP. Verses 4-13 are about 70 AD, verse 14 is a reference to when the Pre Trib. Rapture will happen, and verses 15-29 is the 1260 days of tribulation being spoken about, however vs. 29 is not the 2nd coming, verses 30 and 31 us. After the TROUBLES or TRIBULATION [falls on mankind] the Sun & Moon will go dark, see Trump #4, that is what it means people jump to the illogical idea that vs. 29 is pointing to vs. 30s 2nd coming, it is not. After the Sun & Moon go Dark there will still be the Three Woes to come, and the 1st woe lasts for 5 months.

And Pretrib just complicates it even further, unfortunately.
 

Davidpt

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I use AI at times, but not to gain its insight per se, but so I can see its info index. Lets say I am arguing the 1290 and 1335 comes before the 1260 (they do) then without going into a deep dive, I can pretty much get every mention of this without putting firth much work, LOL.

But on the OP. Verses 4-13 are about 70 AD, verse 14 is a reference to when the Pre Trib. Rapture will happen, and verses 15-29 is the 1260 days of tribulation being spoken about, however vs. 29 is not the 2nd coming, verses 30 and 31 us. After the TROUBLES or TRIBULATION [falls on mankind] the Sun & Moon will go dark, see Trump #4, that is what it means people jump to the illogical idea that vs. 29 is pointing to vs. 30s 2nd coming, it is not. After the Sun & Moon go Dark there will still be the Three Woes to come, and the 1st woe lasts for 5 months.

By insight, in my case, I'm meaning things like grammar rules involving Greek and Hebrew, etc and just grammar rules in general. Surely it's going to have a vast amount of insight concerning things like that. Surely it would know if the text allows someone to do this or that within the text it self, whether or not the text supports whatever one is trying to do with the text.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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A recent exchange with a reasoning AI

There's where you went wrong right there

Talking to the darkened wisdom of man is to be in error.

What you should do instead is be led by the Holy Spirit Who Jesus sent to lead us in to all truth.

Those relying on AI are being conditioned to receive deception and delusion



AI is just a collection a different people`s opinions

Exactly. People being led by the darkened wisdom of mankind which is following the lies of the devil.

We always need to only rely on scripture.

And when one gets their scripture through AI they will be deceived.

And those relying on their church / pastor will be deceived as well as the majority of churches / pastors teach false doctrine now.

They probably getting their teachings from AI because they have no relationship with the Lord.
 
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covenantee

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And here is this same AI's reply to that question I posed in #40. That's what the AI is addressing below. This same AI you insisted is clearly a gnostic futurist AI, lol.

----

This same AI I have been using throughout this thread:

No, those interpreters are not correct that a *strictly spiritual* sense is the only valid way to interpret these verses. In fact, the overwhelming consensus among biblical scholars—across evangelical, mainline, and Jewish spectrums—is that these verses were originally intended to be understood quite literally.

While biblical prophecy often contains symbolic or spiritual elements, interpreting Matthew 24:16-20 *only* spiritually ignores the highly specific, mundane, and physical details Jesus provides. Here are the primary reasons why a literal interpretation is not only valid but historically and grammatically necessary:

### 1. The Mundane Specificity of the Details
If this were meant to be purely spiritual, the imagery chosen is strangely practical. Jesus commands them not to go back into their house to get their "things" or to return to the field to get their "clothes." Spiritualizing these verses requires assigning abstract meanings to everyday physical items (e.g., "clothes" means "spiritual armor," "housetop" means "a high spiritual state"). It is a basic rule of biblical interpretation (hermeneutics) that if a text makes plain sense, seek no other sense.

### 2. First-Century Architectural Context
The command to not come down from the "housetop" is deeply rooted in first-century Jewish architecture. Houses in ancient Judaea had flat roofs used as living spaces, often accessed by external staircases. If a person was on the roof when the emergency struck, going *down* the external stairs and *into* the house to gather belongings would trap them when the enemy arrived. This is a highly practical, literal instruction for a specific physical environment.

### 3. Geographical and Chronological Constraints
Jesus specifies three literal constraints:
* **"Judaea" and "the mountains":** These are specific, physical locations. When the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem, the literal mountains (specifically across the Jordan River, into Perea, or the hill country of Ephraim) were the exact routes of escape.
* **"In the winter":** A literal seasonal constraint. Winter in Israel brings freezing temperatures, muddy roads, and swollen, impassable rivers (like the Jordan). Fleeing in winter would literally result in death from exposure or drowning.
* **"On the Sabbath day":** A literal calendar constraint. First-century Jewish law strictly prohibited traveling more than a short distance (a "Sabbath day's journey," roughly half a mile) on the Sabbath. Furthermore, the gates of Jerusalem would be locked on the Sabbath. Fleeing on this day would present massive logistical and religious hurdles for a Jewish audience.

### 4. Physical and Biological Realities
Jesus pronounces "woe" (a declaration of deep distress or tragedy) to those who are pregnant or nursing. This makes no sense in a purely spiritual framework. However, in a literal flight for one's life, pregnant women or mothers carrying infants would physically slow down a group, making them highly vulnerable to pursuing enemy soldiers.

### 5. The Immediate Historical Context (The Olivet Discourse)
To understand Matthew 24, you must look at what prompted it. In verse 1, the disciples point to the literal buildings of the Jerusalem Temple. In verse 2, Jesus literally predicts that "not one stone here will be left on another." The disciples then ask in verse 3, "When will this happen?" Verses 16-20 are Jesus' direct answer to how they should survive the literal destruction of the literal Temple.

### 6. Historical Fulfillment
These verses were literally fulfilled in 70 AD during the Roman siege of Jerusalem. The Jewish historian Josephus records that as the Roman general Titus encircled the city, the Christians in Jerusalem remembered Jesus' warning. According to the early church historian Eusebius (*Ecclesiastical History*, Book 3, Chapter 5), the believing Jews fled the city before the Roman trap closed, escaping to the literal city of Pella in the mountains of Perea. Because they left their belongings behind and moved quickly, their lives were spared while over a million Jews inside the city perished.

### Conclusion
Can these verses have a *secondary* spiritual application? Yes. Many pastors draw a spiritual principle from this text: when God calls you to leave your old life of sin, don't look back (like Lot's wife), and don't let earthly attachments weigh you down.

However, to claim that a spiritual sense is the *only* valid way to interpret them is to ignore the geographical, historical, cultural, and linguistic evidence. Jesus was giving His followers literal, life-saving instructions to survive a literal historical event.
So does it believe post 22, or post 41, or both, or neither? :laughing:
 
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Ronald D Milam

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And Pretrib just complicates it even further, unfortunately.
No, since it is fact, we need to see the timeline as it is.

By insight, in my case, I'm meaning things like grammar rules involving Greek and Hebrew, etc and just grammar rules in general. Surely it's going to have a vast amount of insight concerning things like that. Surely it would know if the text allows someone to do this or that within the text it self, whether or not the text supports whatever one is trying to do with the text.
Like I said, you can use it as a tool, but must realize it will almost always default to the consensus opinion of something, so if most of the studied scholars think one way, that is what it will defer unto. Its just calculating probabilities in the end.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Guess what? This AI is not even remotely saying any of those things.
Which AI is it?

The AI is not taking sides. It simply delivered what I requested of it. I asked it if there is a way to interpret verses 16-20 without it meaning in a literal sense. Let me prove my point. Since I wasn't logged in at the time this means the AI does not retain our exchange. To the AI, it's as if that exchange never took place. What I will do then is ask it if verses 16-20 can be understood in the literal sense and it then explaining how and why

I will pose the following questions to this same AI.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:


Some interpreters argue that these verses are not meaning in a literal sense, that they have to be interpreted in a spiritual sense. Are they correct that a spiritual sense is the only valid way to interpret these? If no, then provide reasons why.
Ask the AI if it thinks it's reasonable to conclude that Luke 21:20-24a is not a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-20. And ask it if it's reasonable to conclude that only Luke would have recorded Jesus's answer to the disciples' first question and not Matthew and Mark.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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Which AI is it?

Pie in the Sky AI or course!

You watch, before long some of the big time ministries will come out with their own version of AI

Just like back when "apps" became a thing it wasn't long before they started coming out with their own apps which of course is designed to keep their followers following them

They'll be doing this with AI before long so their followers can automate their Christianity so they need not bother themselves with having a direct personal relationship with the Lord - it'll all be automated and there's be a fake "jesus" on the screen talking to them or more likely the popular preacher they follow will be on the screen talking to their followers.

Kinda like Mark Zuckerburg is doing now with Meta employees where he has created an AI version of Himself to talk directly with employees. Wait till these popular ear ticklin ministries start doing this and charging a monthly subscription for it!
 

claninja

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Which AI is it?


Ask the AI if it thinks it's reasonable to conclude that Luke 21:20-24a is not a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15-22 and Mark 13:14-20. And ask it if it's reasonable to conclude that only Luke would have recorded Jesus's answer to the disciples' first question and not Matthew and Mark.

Had to give it a shot @Davidpt . Here’s what ChatGPT said in regards to @Spiritual Israelite ’s question:

“It’s not very reasonable to conclude that Luke 21:20–24a is not parallel to Matthew 24:15–22 and Mark 13:14–20, or that only Luke records Jesus’ answer to the disciples’ first question.

Here’s why:

First, the passages line up too closely to be unrelated. All three occur in the Olivet Discourse and follow the same structure: a triggering sign, a command to flee Judea, urgency not to delay, and a period of severe distress. That kind of alignment strongly suggests they are parallel accounts, not separate answers to different questions.

Second, Luke appears to clarify—not replace—the other accounts. Where Matthew and Mark refer to the “abomination of desolation,” Luke says “when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.” This looks like an interpretive expansion, making symbolic language more concrete for his audience, not recording a different event.


Third, the idea that only Luke records the answer to the temple’s destruction creates a major problem. That question is what prompted the entire discourse. It would be unlikely for both Matthew and Mark to completely omit Jesus’ direct answer to such a central question while still preserving the surrounding material.


Fourth, all three include the same specific instruction: “let those in Judea flee to the mountains.” This is geographically and contextually tied to Jerusalem. If Luke were addressing a different question, it’s hard to explain why the exact same command appears in all three accounts in the same context.

A more coherent conclusion is that all three are parallel accounts of the same discourse. Matthew and Mark preserve more apocalyptic language, while Luke presents a more historically concrete version.

Bottom line: it’s possible to argue Luke alone answers the first question—but it’s not the most natural or textually consistent reading.”
 

doctrox

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AI is just a collection a different people`s opinions. It is not infallible. It just brings up what the computer has found around the internet.
It's much worse. It's accursed, consecrated to Satan's service. Even the terminology describing the invention is of the occult. A.I. is harvesting souls for Satan.

Witness this site and many others. The A.I. camel has its nose in the tent.
 
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covenantee

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Had to give it a shot @Davidpt . Here’s what ChatGPT said in regards to @Spiritual Israelite ’s question:

“It’s not very reasonable to conclude that Luke 21:20–24a is not parallel to Matthew 24:15–22 and Mark 13:14–20, or that only Luke records Jesus’ answer to the disciples’ first question.

Here’s why:

First, the passages line up too closely to be unrelated. All three occur in the Olivet Discourse and follow the same structure: a triggering sign, a command to flee Judea, urgency not to delay, and a period of severe distress. That kind of alignment strongly suggests they are parallel accounts, not separate answers to different questions.

Second, Luke appears to clarify—not replace—the other accounts. Where Matthew and Mark refer to the “abomination of desolation,” Luke says “when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.” This looks like an interpretive expansion, making symbolic language more concrete for his audience, not recording a different event.


Third, the idea that only Luke records the answer to the temple’s destruction creates a major problem. That question is what prompted the entire discourse. It would be unlikely for both Matthew and Mark to completely omit Jesus’ direct answer to such a central question while still preserving the surrounding material.


Fourth, all three include the same specific instruction: “let those in Judea flee to the mountains.” This is geographically and contextually tied to Jerusalem. If Luke were addressing a different question, it’s hard to explain why the exact same command appears in all three accounts in the same context.

A more coherent conclusion is that all three are parallel accounts of the same discourse. Matthew and Mark preserve more apocalyptic language, while Luke presents a more historically concrete version.

Bottom line: it’s possible to argue Luke alone answers the first question—but it’s not the most natural or textually consistent reading.”
Seems to possess wisdom and discernment, based virtually exclusively on linguistic structure, syntax, and semantics, without becoming doctrinaire.

Must be of the devil. :laughing:
 
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doctrox

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From the OP:
The AI actually addresses and answers that at the end of the OP. One can either agree that it's answers are reasonable, or one can agree it's nonsensical instead.
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. (Job 14:4)
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you (2 Cor. 6:17).

Either way, at least a solution is provided.
But if a "solution" leads one down the broad road, it ends in destruction.

Seems to possess wisdom and discernment, based virtually exclusively on linguistic structure, syntax, and semantics, without becoming doctrinaire.
Of course it's seductive. It's the voluminous data streams that the unsuspecting have been fooled into handing over to the perp's that have allowed them to develop and deploy A.I. Why do you think email addy's, social media,, the cell phone service itself, are virtually free? Your very emotional makeup, your personal private thoughts, your vulnerabilities, are being collected and leveraged. You are the product.

Must be of the devil. :laughing:
Every action runs to some purpose. If that purpose is not for the building of God's kingdom, then it is for the building of a rival kingdom. There is no neutrality.
 
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covenantee

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From the OP:

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. (Job 14:4)
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you (2 Cor. 6:17).


But if a "solution" leads one down the broad road, it ends in destruction.


Of course it's seductive. It's the voluminous data streams that the unsuspecting have been fooled into handing over to the perp's that have allowed them to develop and deploy A.I. Why do you think email addy's, social media,, the cell phone service itself, are virtually free? Your very emotional makeup, your personal private thoughts, your vulnerabilities, are being collected and leveraged. You are the product.


Every action runs to some purpose. If that purpose is not for the building of God's kingdom, then it is for the building of a rival kingdom. There is no neutrality.
What do you disagree with in post 49, and why?
 

Marilyn C

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It's much worse. It's accursed, consecrated to Satan's service. Even the terminology describing the invention is of the occult. A.I. is harvesting souls for Satan.

Witness this site and many others. The A.I. camel has its nose in the tent.
Yes. When I write a question for the computer to search and find other`s opinions, the built in response is `Thinking.` What? A computer does NOT think. AI (artificial Intelligence) Intelligence really. There are people trying to get us to trust and believe that this is a `person, entity` that can think.
 
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Stumpmaster

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It's much worse. It's accursed, consecrated to Satan's service. Even the terminology describing the invention is of the occult. A.I. is harvesting souls for Satan.

Witness this site and many others. The A.I. camel has its nose in the tent.
Why are you using it then? I detect hypocrisy ;;;;;
 

doctrox

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What do you disagree with in post 49, and why?
Truth is, it matters not whether I side with the one poster or with the other. The point made is that I do not countenance A.I., and neither should any discerning believer.

Why are you using it then? I detect hypocrisy ;;;;;
I do not use it. Perhaps you've mistaken another's post for mine.
 

Stumpmaster

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Truth is, it matters not whether I side with the one poster or with the other. The point made is that I do not countenance A.I., and neither should any discerning believer.


I do not use it. Perhaps you've mistaken another's post for mine.
If you are reading this then you are using artificial intelligence. Perhaps you didn't realise.
 

Marilyn C

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If you are reading this then you are using artificial intelligence. Perhaps you didn't realise.
It`s not `intelligence` it is just a computer, wires and connections that search out by `oo`s and 1`s and then matched to letters.
 
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