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Davy

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I am not forbidden to read any part of the bible.

Are you?
Mat 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

You asking if I know what the above Scripture by Lord Jesus is about?

Have you not read Christ's answer to that above 41 verse at the end of Luke 17:37? and the parallel verse to in Matthew 24:28?

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the
carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


The only place in the Greek NT where the Greek word for a dead 'carcase' is written. And it's about Christ's answer to His disciples in Luke 17:37 when they asked, "Where, Lord?" about those FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him,
Where, Lord? And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Like a DEAD CARCASE! will be the fate of the FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Wow! That just ain't what those ole' boys down at the false Pre-trib Rapture revival tent are teaching though, is it?
 
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rebuilder 454

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You asking if I know what the above Scripture by Lord Jesus is about?

Have you not read Christ's answer to that above 41 verse at the end of Luke 17:37? and the parallel verse to in Matthew 24:28?

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the
carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


The only place in the Greek NT where the Greek word for a dead 'carcase' is written. And it's about Christ's answer to His disciples in Luke 17:37 when they asked, "Where, Lord?" about those FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him,
Where, Lord? And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Like a DEAD CARCASE! will be the fate of the FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Wow! That just ain't what those ole' boys down at the false Pre-trib Rapture revival tent are teaching though, is it?
We all see the verses
Nothing new.

You are believing that the ones taken, are taken to judgement huh?
By Using a verse that does not say that.

That deal is impossible.
1) you erroneously need HALF the world saved, and half wicked.
2) you need a saved , on fire believer, to be in a bed with a satan worshipper.
3) you need the setting changed, to your war zone setting, that in no way fits.
4) the timing is "before the flood"...hello...PRETRIB.

ADD IT UP.
You are twisting the ENTIRE PASSAGE, to fit your deal.
Let's test fit it.
We have a wicked people rapture, of half the planet, pretrib .
So watch and be ready.?

Huh??????

Pure Bible butchery.
...and you actually believe it, and promote it.
 

rebuilder 454

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You asking if I know what the above Scripture by Lord Jesus is about?

Have you not read Christ's answer to that above 41 verse at the end of Luke 17:37? and the parallel verse to in Matthew 24:28?

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the
carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


The only place in the Greek NT where the Greek word for a dead 'carcase' is written. And it's about Christ's answer to His disciples in Luke 17:37 when they asked, "Where, Lord?" about those FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him,
Where, Lord? And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Like a DEAD CARCASE! will be the fate of the FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Wow! That just ain't what those ole' boys down at the false Pre-trib Rapture revival tent are teaching though, is it?
I proved your deal is baloney.
It is your only passage.
...and it is twisted throughly by your teachers as i have easily demonstrated.

You should test fit before wasting time and energy on what your teachers are making a fool of.

Once the Bible debunks your doctrine, it is time to walk away, or change to what is written.
 

Scott Downey

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I am not forbidden to read any part of the bible.

Are you?
Mat 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Postrib workbook has never included that.

QUOTE
"You should have remembered the rest... of it..."

Uh huh.
Good advice.
On that Day when He comes again, we believers remain with Him, the wicked are taken away to destruction, they are separated from Him.

Matthew 13

The Parable of the Tares Explained​

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


There again is the fiery destruction of the wicked unrighteous who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel


6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
 

Scott Downey

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47 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a net that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind,

48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
 

Scott Downey

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You asking if I know what the above Scripture by Lord Jesus is about?

Have you not read Christ's answer to that above 41 verse at the end of Luke 17:37? and the parallel verse to in Matthew 24:28?

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the
carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV


The only place in the Greek NT where the Greek word for a dead 'carcase' is written. And it's about Christ's answer to His disciples in Luke 17:37 when they asked, "Where, Lord?" about those FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Luke 17:35-37
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him,
Where, Lord? And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV

Like a DEAD CARCASE! will be the fate of the FIRST ONES TAKEN.

Wow! That just ain't what those ole' boys down at the false Pre-trib Rapture revival tent are teaching though, is it?
Exactly, fully agree. I also responded to @rebuilder 454 of the words of Christ about the end of the age-world in other verses and also what Paul taught which are also in full agreement.

Eternal destruction of the wicked unbelieving at the return of Christ, those who do not Know God, those who do not obey the Gospel when He comes on that Day to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
 

Davy

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We all see the verses
Nothing new.

You are believing that the ones taken, are taken to judgement huh?
By Using a verse that does not say that.

That deal is impossible.
1) you erroneously need HALF the world saved, and half wicked.
2) you need a saved , on fire believer, to be in a bed with a satan worshipper.
3) you need the setting changed, to your war zone setting, that in no way fits.
4) the timing is "before the flood"...hello...PRETRIB.

ADD IT UP.
You are twisting the ENTIRE PASSAGE, to fit your deal.
Let's test fit it.
We have a wicked people rapture, of half the planet, pretrib .
So watch and be ready.?

Huh??????

Pure Bible butchery.
...and you actually believe it, and promote it.

You don't realize that you are calling Lord Jesus a liar. What He answered His disciples in that Luke 17:37 verse about the 1st one TAKEN is not me twisting anything. And the parallel Matthew 24:28 verse using the word for "carcase" is proof that those in Christ do NOT want to be the 1st one TAKEN.

Thus you have been warned.
 

rebuilder 454

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You don't realize that you are calling Lord Jesus a liar. What He answered His disciples in that Luke 17:37 verse about the 1st one TAKEN is not me twisting anything. And the parallel Matthew 24:28 verse using the word for "carcase" is proof that those in Christ do NOT want to be the 1st one TAKEN.

Thus you have been warned.
You dance around the surrounding verses.
One taken, one left.
50 % of the world is wicked, and 50% born again?
Ok, so we know that is impossible.
Ahem...making your "interpretation" impossible.

No brainer.
But that is why you will not address it.

I show you how off you are.
Then you claim the liar label to Jesus.
Get honest about it.
You look like a fool.
 

rebuilder 454

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You don't realize that you are calling Lord Jesus a liar. What He answered His disciples in that Luke 17:37 verse about the 1st one TAKEN is not me twisting anything. And the parallel Matthew 24:28 verse using the word for "carcase" is proof that those in Christ do NOT want to be the 1st one TAKEN.

Thus you have been warned.
1) your claim is half the world is taken in a wicked man pretrib rapture.
2) Jesus immediately says, TO HIS FLOCK, to watch and be ready.
3) you are claiming that the wicked population of the planet is told to watch and be ready.
4) your doctrinal pivot off of "carcase " is what you do with every postribber smoking gun
5) 50% of a group leaving is so destructive to your deal...you should have come up with something different to minimize the damage.

It is flat out laughable.
You are claiming a pretrib rapture of wicked people to an immediate judgement before the flood. (Before the 7yr trib.) And insist only half the planet's population is wicked
Then spew warnings to me personally

Crazy and lame.


( you jettison 5 verses and think a word definition voids those 5 verses.)

That is why , when shown how utterly foolish your interpretation is , you run from those verses.

Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

There you have 2 ANALOGIES BY JESUS.
WHO IS GATHERED PRETRIB in both analogies.????
Wicked people??????????
You change the BOTH ANALOGIES and act like you are honestly attempting understanding?????
In the example of Lot ,you have, in your imagination, wicked people are taken and lot stays???????
What group is banging on the door of the ark.
Cue drum roll....those left behind , THAT DID NOT GET GATHERED PREFLOOD.

Your deal is so busted it is laughable.
 

rebuilder 454

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Pssssst....Jesus continues HIS ANALOGY, At the end of the chapter.

"Where the you see bodies, you see eagles"
....Is saying, in fact, METAPHORICALLY, "where you see saints taken (lot, and noah), you see heaven."
Taken to a place.( you = taken to hell....perverted indeed)
Psssst....Bodies and eagles are not places.

NO BRAINER THAT BOTH LOT AND NOAH ARE NOT WICKED, AND BOTH GATHERED (TAKEN) AND REMOVED.
 
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Scott Downey

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Pssssst....Jesus continues HIS ANALOGY, At the end of the chapter.

"Where the you see bodies, you see eagles"
....Is saying, in fact, METAPHORICALLY, "where you see saints taken (lot, and noah), you see heaven."
Taken to a place.( you = taken to hell....perverted indeed)
Psssst....Bodies and eagles are not places.

NO BRAINER THAT BOTH LOT AND NOAH ARE NOT WICKED, AND BOTH GATHERED (TAKEN) AND REMOVED.
only in your No Brainer repsonse.
The wicked were removed from earth and went to hellfire, a different place, while both Lot and Noah remained on the earth

Only thing left of the wicked was ashes and dust, and some became bird food.
 
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ewq1938

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only in your No Brainer repsonse.
The wicked were removed from earth and went to hellfire

Only in a handful of cities. The wicked everywhere else lived on as they had been.



, a different place, while both Lot and Noah remained on the earth

No hellfire in the story of Noah.

Only thing left of the wicked was ashes and dust, and some became bird food.

Only applies to some of the wicked. At the second coming Christ destroys the armies of the beast, casts the two beasts into the LOF, and imprisons satan and then rules over the civilians of the beast system for a thousand years. After the thousand years those same people are targeted by satan once he is released from his prison. That shows they were alive and on Earth the whole time.
 

Scott Downey

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Only in a handful of cities. The wicked everywhere else lived on as they had been.





No hellfire in the story of Noah.



Only applies to some of the wicked. At the second coming Christ destroys the armies of the beast, casts the two beasts into the LOF, and imprisons satan and then rules over the civilians of the beast system for a thousand years. After the thousand years those same people are targeted by satan once he is released from his prison. That shows they were alive and on Earth the whole time.
Invalid comparison, Jesus is speaking of types and God's justice.
Also we know the fate of the people of Noah's day, Peter tells us

The story Christ tells us is of their destruction, where else do the wicked go at death.
They became imprisoned spirits in hell who died during the flood.
What you think they are in purgatory or something? Not hell? They are in torments, just like that rich man in the parable of Abraham's bosom, who was imprisoned, and there is that great gulf separating the just from the unjust.
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1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit,

19 by which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

20 who one time were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, wherein few, (that is, eight souls) were saved by water.

21 The like figure to this, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

22 who has gone into Heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.

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You also ought to understand your suggestion of everyday common man beast worshippers surviving Christ glorious return is impossible due to the way the scripture is written.

They both do not know God, and they do not obey the gospel, Revelation says men refuse to repent and give God glory, and then this too,

Rev 13
4 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5 And there was given unto him a mouth, speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in Heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear:

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity. He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Rev 14

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred, and tongue and people,

7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His Judgment is come. Worship Him that made heaven and earth, and the sea and the fountains of waters.”

8 And there followed another angel, saying, “Babylon is fallen! Fallen is that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand,

10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out unmixed into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from Heaven, saying unto me, “Write: ’Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth.’” “Yea,” saith the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works do follow them.”
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Somehow @ewq1938 you believe these people are not destroyed, but become living survivors on earth, and pick up their old lives. Verse 11 refutes this, they are in hell, the description fits. Hell is not hidden from God.
You are making up doctrines.
 

ewq1938

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Invalid comparison, Jesus is speaking of types and God's justice.


No, just facts. The fire in the story of Lot was only against some cities, not all of them. The killing at the second coming is the same, some are killed and most are not. Rev 19 is clear on this, that a rule over people will happen after Armageddon. We see it happening in Rev 20, and when the thousand years is over, those same people are still there on the Earth where they were during the thousand years.

Amill doesn't seem to understand that in their own version of the thousand years that the mortal unsaved people are there also, and are there when the thousand years ends just as it is in Premill. No matter the doctrine, unsaved mortals are in the thousand years.
 
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Davy

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You dance around the surrounding verses.
One taken, one left.
50 % of the world is wicked, and 50% born again?
Ok, so we know that is impossible.
Ahem...making your "interpretation" impossible.

No brainer.
But that is why you will not address it.

I show you how off you are.
Then you claim the liar label to Jesus.
Get honest about it.
You look like a fool.

We will see who is trying to do the dancing when Lord Jesus does return in our near future, and He finds out you didn't remain "a chaste virgin" waiting for His coming, but instead flew away to the first supernatural Messiah that shows up in Jerusalem, which will be a fake.

Only those who REMAIN in Christ Jesus as "a chaste virgin" will be LEFT-BEHIND. It's the deceived who don't wait that are the first ones TAKEN.

And just think of it, Tim LaHaye wrote a 13 book series spotlighting the LIE that the first one TAKEN is to Christ, and the deceived are left-behind! And fake rapture movies were made off his book series! WHAT A JOKE!
 

Davy

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1) your claim is half the world is taken in a wicked man pretrib rapture.
2) Jesus immediately says, TO HIS FLOCK, to watch and be ready.
3) you are claiming that the wicked population of the planet is told to watch and be ready.
4) your doctrinal pivot off of "carcase " is what you do with every postribber smoking gun
5) 50% of a group leaving is so destructive to your deal...you should have come up with something different to minimize the damage.

It is flat out laughable.
....

I'm going to do a Thread on what God says about the fake pre-trib rapture theory by one of His Old Testament prophets, Ezekiel.
 

rebuilder 454

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I'm going to do a Thread on what God says about the fake pre-trib rapture theory by one of His Old Testament prophets, Ezekiel.
Ok.
After you have thoughoughly exhausted putting lipstick on your one posttrib non verse in the NT, you can attempt to "teach" the OT.
Breathtaking indeed.
 
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WPM

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Pssssst....Jesus continues HIS ANALOGY, At the end of the chapter.

"Where the you see bodies, you see eagles"
....Is saying, in fact, METAPHORICALLY, "where you see saints taken (lot, and noah), you see heaven."
Taken to a place.( you = taken to hell....perverted indeed)
Psssst....Bodies and eagles are not places.

NO BRAINER THAT BOTH LOT AND NOAH ARE NOT WICKED, AND BOTH GATHERED (TAKEN) AND REMOVED.
We all agree that this is the catching away. But what are those left behind for? Does it say they are left behind for a tribulation period or for sudden destruction? Destruction! That is why Jesus says: remember Lot's wife. That is why He tells us wherever the dead bodies are there are vultures. This is the end!

So, this is not remotely a Pretrib prooftext. Quite the opposite! It forbids it.

The fact you and your Pretrib buddies cannot rebut any Posttrib arguments any more is testimony that your doctrine is dead.
 
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WPM

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Only in a handful of cities. The wicked everywhere else lived on as they had been.





No hellfire in the story of Noah.



Only applies to some of the wicked. At the second coming Christ destroys the armies of the beast, casts the two beasts into the LOF, and imprisons satan and then rules over the civilians of the beast system for a thousand years. After the thousand years those same people are targeted by satan once he is released from his prison. That shows they were alive and on Earth the whole time.
LOL. He only compared the end to the destruction of Sodom. Hello!
 
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