False Teaching: Mary died a virgin. Biblical Proof Mary had children.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Moonwood

Member
Aug 24, 2026
152
42
28
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Wrong.
If those passages you posted were strictly to be interpreted as cousins the Greek would use anepsios.

None of these passages use anepsios or adelphos.
The Greek reads,
- now there stood by the cross of Jesus  His mother and His mothers sister Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene

Wrong.

Big problem with your argument is none of these passages refer to Mary's children as cousins.
That's what you must prove by the context.

NT Greek scholars do not interpret adelphos as Jesus' cousins.
They say it can have a broader meaning.
Not what you're claiming that it means cousins.

Give the context to prove your belief.
Claiming what men think doesnt prove anything really.
Scripture is what proves who's correct.

Your response keeps repeating a claim I’m not making. I’m not arguing that adelphos “means cousin” in some technical sense, or that the NT should have used anepsios. I’m arguing that the NT’s use of adelphoi for Jesus’s “brothers” does not require them to be Mary’s biological children, and that the men so labeled are identified elsewhere as belonging to another mother and another household. That’s a contextual argument, not a lexical one.

Appealing to anepsios doesn’t help your case. Greek has both narrow and broad kinship terms, and Scripture does not always use the narrow one. The Septuagint repeatedly uses adelphos for extended‑family relationships, and the NT writers inherit that usage. The existence of anepsios does not force adelphos to mean “biological sibling” every time it appears. It simply means Greek has both specific and general kinship terms, and the NT often uses the general one.

You say Matthew 27:56, Mark 15:40, Mark 16:1, and John 19:25 “don’t use adelphos or anepsios.” Exactly. Those passages aren’t about the word; they’re about the identities. They name the women at the cross and the tomb, and they identify “Mary the wife of Clopas/Cleophas” as the mother of James and Joseph—the same men called Jesus’s adelphoi in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3. John calls Mary of Clopas/Cleophas “Mary’s sister.” Two biological sisters would not both be named Mary, so the natural reading is that she is Mary’s sister‑in‑law. That places her and her sons in Joseph’s extended family, not as additional children of Mary.

You say “none of these passages refer to Mary’s children as cousins.” But I haven’t claimed the NT uses the word anepsios. I’ve said the NT never identifies any child of Mary except Jesus, and that the men called Jesus’s adelphoi are identified as the sons of another Mary. That’s what the text actually gives you. The cousin language comes from the family structure implied by those identifications, not from a single Greek word.

As for “NT Greek scholars”: they say exactly what I’ve said—that adelphos has a broad semantic range and does not always mean biological sibling. They don’t claim the word itself “means cousin”; they acknowledge that context determines the relationship. And the NT context identifies another mother, another household, and a kinship term broad enough to cover extended family.

You keep saying I must “prove by the context” that these men are cousins. The context I’ve given is the NT’s own: named individuals, named mothers, named relationships, and a kinship term that is broad enough to include extended family. Taken together, that context shows that the NT’s use of adelphoi for Jesus’s “brothers” fits extended‑family kinship and does not support the claim that Mary had other children. If you want to insist they are Mary’s biological sons, you need a verse that actually identifies them as such. There isn’t one.
 

Titus

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2022
2,363
709
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Your response keeps repeating a claim I’m not making. I’m not arguing that adelphos “means cousin” in some technical sense, or that the NT should have used anepsios. I’m arguing that the NT’s use of adelphoi for Jesus’s “brothers” does not require them to be Mary’s biological children, and that the men so labeled are identified elsewhere as belonging to another mother and another household. That’s a contextual argument, not a lexical one.

Appealing to anepsios doesn’t help your case. Greek has both narrow and broad kinship terms, and Scripture does not always use the narrow one. The Septuagint repeatedly uses adelphos for extended‑family relationships, and the NT writers inherit that usage. The existence of anepsios does not force adelphos to mean “biological sibling” every time it appears. It simply means Greek has both specific and general kinship terms, and the NT often uses the general one.

You say Matthew 27:56, Mark 15:40, Mark 16:1, and John 19:25 “don’t use adelphos or anepsios.” Exactly. Those passages aren’t about the word; they’re about the identities. They name the women at the cross and the tomb, and they identify “Mary the wife of Clopas/Cleophas” as the mother of James and Joseph—the same men called Jesus’s adelphoi in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3. John calls Mary of Clopas/Cleophas “Mary’s sister.” Two biological sisters would not both be named Mary, so the natural reading is that she is Mary’s sister‑in‑law. That places her and her sons in Joseph’s extended family, not as additional children of Mary.

You say “none of these passages refer to Mary’s children as cousins.” But I haven’t claimed the NT uses the word anepsios. I’ve said the NT never identifies any child of Mary except Jesus, and that the men called Jesus’s adelphoi are identified as the sons of another Mary. That’s what the text actually gives you. The cousin language comes from the family structure implied by those identifications, not from a single Greek word.

As for “NT Greek scholars”: they say exactly what I’ve said—that adelphos has a broad semantic range and does not always mean biological sibling. They don’t claim the word itself “means cousin”; they acknowledge that context determines the relationship. And the NT context identifies another mother, another household, and a kinship term broad enough to cover extended family.

You keep saying I must “prove by the context” that these men are cousins. The context I’ve given is the NT’s own: named individuals, named mothers, named relationships, and a kinship term that is broad enough to include extended family. Taken together, that context shows that the NT’s use of adelphoi for Jesus’s “brothers” fits extended‑family kinship and does not support the claim that Mary had other children. If you want to insist they are Mary’s biological sons, you need a verse that actually identifies them as such. There isn’t one.
If these passages were cousins then,
If those passages you posted were strictly to be interpreted as cousins the Greek would use anepsios
The NT writers inherit the kinship patterns of the Septuagint, where adelphos regularly covers a wide range of family relationships, including non‑sibling relatives. This is why NT authors freely use broader kinship terms even when more specific ones exist
This is why your argument is so weak.
Not one of your supposed passages for cousins uses specific Greek word for cousin.
And you are wrong about your claim that new testament scholars use adelphos for describing Jesus' cousins.
You only can assume it you cannot use scripture to prove it.
 

Titus

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2022
2,363
709
113
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Luke 1:36,
- and behold thy cousin(syngenis) Elizabeth she hath also conceived a son in her old age KJV

syngenis means a female relative, kinswoman.
It does not specifically mean cousin. It has a broader meaning.

This is important about the words chosen by God when describing Jesus' brothers, James, Joses
Simon, etc.
God chose to repeatedly use adelphoi, the plural of adelphos.

And anepsios is the specific Greek word for cousin as in Colossians 4:10.

So there is the distinction made,
The distinction is extremely important when examining the context of each passage.
To claim adelphoi were actually cousins when the Bible writers had specific words for cousin and used these specific words in passages where a cousin was being spoken of.
 

Moonwood

Member
Aug 24, 2026
152
42
28
Pacific Northwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
This is why your argument is so weak.
Not one of your supposed passages for cousins uses specific Greek word for cousin.
And you are wrong about your claim that new testament scholars use adelphos for describing Jesus' cousins.
You only can assume it you cannot use scripture to prove it.

Luke 1:36,
- and behold thy cousin(syngenis) Elizabeth she hath also conceived a son in her old age KJV

syngenis means a female relative, kinswoman.
It does not specifically mean cousin. It has a broader meaning.

This is important about the words chosen by God when describing Jesus' brothers, James, Joses
Simon, etc.
God chose to repeatedly use adelphoi, the plural of adelphos.

And anepsios is the specific Greek word for cousin as in Colossians 4:10.

So there is the distinction made,
The distinction is extremely important when examining the context of each passage.
To claim adelphoi were actually cousins when the Bible writers had specific words for cousin and used these specific words in passages where a cousin was being spoken of.

You’re repeating a point I already addressed. Yes—syngenis in Luke 1:36 means “relative, kinswoman,” not “cousin” in a narrow technical sense. That’s exactly why I cited it earlier. The NT had the more specific word anepsios available, yet Luke still chose the broader term syngenis even in a passage traditionally understood as describing a cousin‑type relationship. That shows that NT writers were comfortable using broad kinship terms even when a more specific one existed.

This is the same pattern we see with adelphos. The existence of anepsios does not force adelphos to mean “biological sibling” every time it appears. Scripture often prefers the broader term, just as Luke did in Luke 1:36. That’s why the lexical distinction you’re pressing doesn’t settle the question.

And you’re still attacking a claim I haven’t made. I’m not arguing that the NT “uses the specific Greek word for cousin” about Jesus’s relatives, or that adelphos itself technically means “cousin.” I’m arguing that:
  1. adelphos in biblical Greek does not always mean biological sibling,
  2. the NT calls certain men Jesus’s adelphoi,
  3. the Gospels elsewhere identify those same men as the sons of another Mary,
  4. and no passage ever identifies them as children of Mary the mother of Jesus.
That’s a contextual and genealogical argument, not a claim about a technical lexeme.

Your “no specific Greek word for cousin” objection misses the point. Scripture often uses broader kinship terms even when more specific ones exist. The Septuagint uses adelphos for extended family; the NT writers inherit that usage. The question is not “does the NT ever use anepsios of Jesus’s relatives?” but “who are the people called Jesus’s adelphoi, and which mother and household does the NT assign them to?” On that question, the text is clear: they belong to Mary the wife of Clopas/Cleophas, not to Mary the mother of Jesus.

As for scholars: they don’t say “adelphos means cousin” as a technical definition; they say its semantic range includes non‑sibling kin and that context determines the relationship. That’s exactly what I’m doing—using the NT’s own context to show that the adelphoi of Jesus are identified as the sons of another Mary and another household. That conclusion isn’t a guess; it’s drawn directly from the NT’s own identifications of the individuals, their mother, and their household.

If you want to maintain that these men are Mary’s biological sons, you still need a single verse that actually calls them “sons of Mary” in that sense. So far, all the passages you’ve cited either use the broad term adelphoi or identify another mother entirely.