Concerning Doctrines

newnature · Oct 17, 2026

MonoBiblical said:
I believe Philo copied Justin Martyr. He may have the Samaritan Dositheus. Start there.

Acts 8:9-13, We get a specific episode in Samaria that concerns Simon, Simon the magician. In verse 9, There was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. They all paid attention to him from the least to the greatest saying, This man is the power of God that is called great. And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. (The name, it’s not just Philip running around saying Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, he’s preaching a person, the name is the person.) And these people were baptized, both men and women. Even Simon himself believed. And after being baptized, he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

Acts 8:16-19, For the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen on any of them, and they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles hands, he offered them money saying, give me this power, that anyone on whom I lay my hands on may receive the Holy Spirit. It’s kind of a naive request, obviously in verse 20-23 Peter doesn’t like it. Verse 24, Simon says, Pray for me to the Lord that nothing of what you have said may come upon me. Was Simon a believer? The text says he believed, but he asks a naive question, because he wants to be part of this and there’s no indication in the text he wants to sort of go off and be a wizard or something like that.

Now Peter is really hard on Simon, but Peter wasn’t there at the beginning, Philip was. Peter doesn’t know this guy’s history, or of his conversion necessarily, and Peter’s offended, people don’t get the Holy Spirit by paying for it or anything like that. Peter said Simon’s heart’s not right before God, he rebukes him really harshly. But what does Simon say? Enough of you guys, I’m just going to go off and do my wizard act again. No, he says, Pray for me to the Lord that nothing of what you have said may come upon me. He’s sincere, Okay, I did wrong.

But in verse 10, this phrasing of what was said about Simon prior to his conversion. The people all paid attention to him from the least to the greatest saying, This man is the power of God that is called great. That’s significant, because in Samaritan Targums, Targums are just a word for a translation. The Targum of the Old Testament is the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Aramaic. The Targum of the Greek New Testament translated into Aramaic. The Samaritans had Targums and Samaritans have access to a Samaritan text, it’s not going to look like Hebrew, it’s still going to be Semitic, but it’s their own form. In ancient Samaritan Targums, the Hebrew word El, which means God and is often used as a proper name for God, is often represented by “great power” and is often used for “angels.” What’s being said here, this man is the power of God that is called great.

The claim apparently is that some people either we’re not really told if it’s by Simon’s encouragement or if they just drew this conclusion, but some people were associating his magic with God himself and were referring to him as great or the great one. That term in Samaritan Targums is also a divine name for God, God is the great power. When Simon is called great, it sort of moves him into the same category as God in the minds of those referring to him as this is the one who is great and the power among the angels. That links Simon to not only the great power abstractly, but actually the principal angel, the angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is Yahweh embodied as a man in the Old Testament, and he’s linked by virtue of what the New Testament does with some of those angel of the Lord passages, he’s linked to Jesus.

This portrayal of Simon, there were people, they weren’t thinking about Jesus when they were calling him the great one, the great power, this was a guy who some people associated with or as the angel of the Lord, that he was that close to God. The people look at the amazing magical stuff Simon does, the angel of the Lord has come to us and the power that he exhibits, they’re associating Simon with the second Yahweh figure of the Old Testament, the angel of the Lord. But who does Simon submit to? Who does Simon look at and essentially turn his back on his old life and believed in? It’s Jesus. It’s a victory of the true second power, the true second Yahweh over one who had been falsely claimed as having that status.

LoveYeshua · Oct 19, 2026

ScottA said:
No...I did not "forget", I was "rightly dividing the word of truth." Wherein, "every eye will see Him" is in spirit, when all are raised up before God in spirit, which is life to some and death to others, the good and the evil.

But you speak not of Jesus' return in heaven (in spirit), but in this world. Wherein He comes "not by observation", for "everyone born of the spirit" is like "the wind" which is not visible.

"Rightly dividing the word of truth" is "the renewing of your mind", as opposed to mixing every word from God into worldly only terms, causing great misunderstanding...and delusion.

who gives you permission to divide the words of God? Nothing good will come of this it is reinterpreting the word of God falsely so it agrees with one's own interpretation. It is harmful and created DIVISION.

dak · Oct 19, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
hey scott did you forget it is written of Jesus return: : "every eyes will see Him"?

Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

No, it does not say "every eyes will see Him", neither does it say "all eyes will see him", it says what you actually quoted from the scripture: "every eye will see him". Do you just ignore the fact that eye is singular and rewrite the scripture to fit your own beliefs, (just as you are accusing others here of doing and have also accused me of doing in the past)? You have forced a terrible contradiction with the Testimony of the Master by way of your carnal minded understanding of what you read in the scripture.

The author informs the reader that the Testimony of the Master is the Spirit of the prophecy, (Rev 19:10), therefore, if your eye, (singular), causes you to stumble when you read Rev 1:7, pluck it out and cast it from you, so that you may begin to understand the truly supernal things which are written in the scripture concerning our Elohim and His ways.

The one having an ear to hear, let him hear:
The one having two ears, let him buy a sword.
Chop, chop! :clmSmlx

.

ScottA · Oct 19, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
who gives you permission to divide the words of God? Nothing good will come of this it is reinterpreting the word of God falsely so it agrees with one's own interpretation. It is harmful and created DIVISION.

If I only had permission I would not be so bold, but I have more than permission. I have been sent, not with my own interpretation, but with Him who is in me speaking what is not mine but His.

But consider beyond mere reaction just how it is that God works, and how many in times past who believed one thing but were wrong when the truth was revealed. I understand that much of what I bring is not what you are use to hearing, have been taught, or have believed, but I only bring it as I am appointed to do.

LoveYeshua · Oct 20, 2026

ScottA said:
If I only had permission I would not be so bold, but I have more than permission. I have been sent, not with my own interpretation, but with Him who is in me speaking what is not mine but His.

But consider beyond mere reaction just how it is that God works, and how many in times past who believed one thing but were wrong when the truth was revealed. I understand that much of what I bring is not what you are use to hearing, have been taught, or have believed, but I only bring it as I am appointed to do.

Sorry but there is No way you were sent, since most of what you say is not in accordance with scripture. I reject completely what you say. Jesus asks us to do this, God in the O.T says the same thing. Farewell

LoveYeshua · Oct 20, 2026

dak said:
No, it does not say "every eyes will see Him", neither does it say "all eyes will see him", it says what you actually quoted from the scripture: "every eye will see him". Do you just ignore the fact that eye is singular and rewrite the scripture to fit your own beliefs, (just as you are accusing others here of doing and have also accused me of doing in the past)? You have forced a terrible contradiction with the Testimony of the Master by way of your carnal minded understanding of what you read in the scripture.

The author informs the reader that the Testimony of the Master is the Spirit of the prophecy, (Rev 19:10), therefore, if your eye, (singular), causes you to stumble when you read Rev 1:7, pluck it out and cast it from you, so that you may begin to understand the truly supernal things which are written in the scripture concerning our Elohim and His ways.

The one having an ear to hear, let him hear:
The one having two ears, let him buy a sword.
Chop, chop!
.

Your reply deserves a serious correction, because you have replaced a simple statement of Scripture with a pointless argument over grammar, followed by personal insults and mockery.
Revelation 1:7 says, “Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen.” (ASV)
The words “every eye” are singular because the word “every” takes a singular noun. This does not mean that only one eye will see Him! It means that each eye will see Him, or, in plain language, that everyone will see Him. We say “every person,” not “every persons.” This is basic grammar, not a contradiction in Scripture. You are attacking a meaning that the verse does not express.

Unfortunately, you are ignoring the words of Jesus Himself. He said: “and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:30, ASV)
Notice that Jesus speaks of the tribes of the earth seeing Him when He comes in power and great glory. Revelation 1:7 agrees with His words. Where is the contradiction? You have not demonstrated one.
You then bring up Revelation 19:10 and the spirit of prophecy, as though mentioning that verse proves your interpretation. It does not. You must still explain what the actual words mean, rather than using another verse to avoid the plain meaning of the passage you are discussing.

But the worst part of your reply is your conduct. Calling someone “carnal minded” does not prove your argument, and turning the Lord's words about having ears to hear into “let him buy a sword,” followed by “Chop, chop!”, is mockery.

Jesus taught His disciples to put the sword away, not to turn His teachings into a joke about violence (Matthew 26:52).
You are free to disagree with this clear prophecy thar requires NO interpretation. However, if you believe this wrong, then make your case from Scripture. Explain the words, show the context, and demonstrate the alleged contradiction. Do not twist a basic grammatical expression into an argument against the plain clear meaning of the verse, then substitute insults and sarcasm for evidence.

Revelation 1:7 say that every eye will see Him? Yes!

Does Jesus teach that the tribes of the earth will see Him coming in glory? Yes. Show from Scripture where these statements contradict each other. Until you do, your objection is nothing more than a grammatical distraction, followed by an unnecessary display of contempt.

dak · Oct 20, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
Your reply deserves a serious correction, because you have replaced a simple statement of Scripture with a pointless argument over grammar, followed by personal insults and mockery.
Revelation 1:7 says, “Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen.” (ASV)
The words “every eye” are singular because the word “every” takes a singular noun. This does not mean that only one eye will see Him! It means that each eye will see Him, or, in plain language, that everyone will see Him. We say “every person,” not “every persons.” This is basic grammar, not a contradiction in Scripture. You are attacking a meaning that the verse does not express.

"This does not mean that only one eye will see Him!"

Obfuscation and misrepresentation of my words: that is not what I said.

LoveYeshua said:
Unfortunately, you are ignoring the words of Jesus Himself. He said: “and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:30, ASV)
Notice that Jesus speaks of the tribes of the earth seeing Him when He comes in power and great glory. Revelation 1:7 agrees with His words. Where is the contradiction? You have not demonstrated one.
You then bring up Revelation 19:10 and the spirit of prophecy, as though mentioning that verse proves your interpretation. It does not. You must still explain what the actual words mean, rather than using another verse to avoid the plain meaning of the passage you are discussing.

He also says this to the chief priests at his trial:

Matthew 26:63-64 KJV
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

And that is because the Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son, (John 5:22). They therefore either repented after the fact, realizing that they had killed an innocent man, and found out the right way when they passed from death unto life, or, they did not repent and found out the hard way when they physically died: for it is appointed unto men once to die, then the judgment, (Heb 9:27).

LoveYeshua said:
But the worst part of your reply is your conduct. Calling someone “carnal minded” does not prove your argument, and turning the Lord's words about having ears to hear into “let him buy a sword,” followed by “Chop, chop!”, is mockery.

Carnal minded is the truth. Would your feelings be less hurt if I had used natural minded instead? Do you actually have any arguments in support of your natural minded understanding of the scripture? As for the other we disagree, besides, you have thrown much more mockery at me and others here so I have no reason be worried about your feelings. You can dish it out but you cannot take your own medicine?

LoveYeshua said:
Jesus taught His disciples to put the sword away, not to turn His teachings into a joke about violence (Matthew 26:52).
You are free to disagree with this clear prophecy thar requires NO interpretation. However, if you believe this wrong, then make your case from Scripture. Explain the words, show the context, and demonstrate the alleged contradiction. Do not twist a basic grammatical expression into an argument against the plain clear meaning of the verse, then substitute insults and sarcasm for evidence.

Go back to where you and I started with your first post in the relevant thread:

This is the Torah of the Sin Offering

Paul both teaches and serves the torah-instruction of the sin offering, but first we must understand from where his teaching is derived: he states that he teaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:37), and in this case we find the likely answer in the following passage quoted below...

www.christianityboard.com

Look at your first response to me, the first time we ever spoke, (post #5).

LoveYeshua said:
Revelation 1:7 say that every eye will see Him? Yes!

Does Jesus teach that the tribes of the earth will see Him coming in glory? Yes. Show from Scripture where these statements contradict each other. Until you do, your objection is nothing more than a grammatical distraction, followed by an unnecessary display of contempt.

What a joke.....

Matthew 6:22-23 KJV
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

You know not even the most basic principles concerning the teachings of the Master.

dak · Oct 20, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
Show from Scripture where these statements contradict each other. Until you do, your objection is nothing more than a grammatical distraction, followed by an unnecessary display of contempt.

That also is a misdirection and misunderstanding of what I meant by contradiction. You contradicted multiple statements and passages such as Luke 17:20-21, which @ScottA already brought to your attention, which states that the kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation.

Moreover there is plenty of other evidence in the Testimony of the Master, such as:

John 14:15-23 KJV
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He is not going to manifest himself to the world, ever, for the heavens and the earth shall pass away but his words shall not pass away. It is not possible for the world to see him because the world is full of natural and carnal minded fallen people. You are taking the most symbol filled prophetic book ever written and turning it into a natural minded fantasy.

LoveYeshua · Oct 20, 2026

dak said:
"This does not mean that only one eye will see Him!"

Obfuscation and misrepresentation of my words: that is not what I said.

He also says this to the chief priests at his trial:

Matthew 26:63-64 KJV
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

And that is because the Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son, (John 5:22). They therefore either repented after the fact, realizing that they had killed an innocent man, and found out the right way when they passed from death unto life, or, they did not repent and found out the hard way when they physically died: for it is appointed unto men once to die, then the judgment, (Heb 9:27).

Carnal minded is the truth. Would your feelings be less hurt if I had used natural minded instead? Do you actually have any arguments in support of your natural minded understanding of the scripture? As for the other we disagree, besides, you have thrown much more mockery at me and others here so I have no reason be worried about your feelings. You can dish it out but you cannot take your own medicine?

Go back to where you and I started with your first post in the relevant thread:

This is the Torah of the Sin Offering

Paul both teaches and serves the torah-instruction of the sin offering, but first we must understand from where his teaching is derived: he states that he teaches the commandments of the Master, (1Cor 14:37), and in this case we find the likely answer in the following passage quoted below...

www.christianityboard.com

Look at your first response to me, the first time we ever spoke, (post #5).

View attachment 91952

What a joke.....

Matthew 6:22-23 KJV
22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

You know not even the most basic principles concerning the teachings of the Master.

Dont worry I am not hurt by what you write, I preach only the words of Christ and the truth of scripture that is given to me to understand. I know where I stand, : "IN TRUTH" I am used to persecution, please don't worry about me at all.

Goodbye

ScottA · Oct 20, 2026

LoveYeshua said:
Your reply deserves a serious correction, because you have replaced a simple statement of Scripture with a pointless argument over grammar, followed by personal insults and mockery.
Revelation 1:7 says, “Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen.” (ASV)
The words “every eye” are singular because the word “every” takes a singular noun. This does not mean that only one eye will see Him! It means that each eye will see Him, or, in plain language, that everyone will see Him. We say “every person,” not “every persons.” This is basic grammar, not a contradiction in Scripture. You are attacking a meaning that the verse does not express.

Unfortunately, you are ignoring the words of Jesus Himself. He said: “and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:30, ASV)
Notice that Jesus speaks of the tribes of the earth seeing Him when He comes in power and great glory. Revelation 1:7 agrees with His words. Where is the contradiction? You have not demonstrated one.
You then bring up Revelation 19:10 and the spirit of prophecy, as though mentioning that verse proves your interpretation. It does not. You must still explain what the actual words mean, rather than using another verse to avoid the plain meaning of the passage you are discussing.

But the worst part of your reply is your conduct. Calling someone “carnal minded” does not prove your argument, and turning the Lord's words about having ears to hear into “let him buy a sword,” followed by “Chop, chop!”, is mockery.

Jesus taught His disciples to put the sword away, not to turn His teachings into a joke about violence (Matthew 26:52).
You are free to disagree with this clear prophecy thar requires NO interpretation. However, if you believe this wrong, then make your case from Scripture. Explain the words, show the context, and demonstrate the alleged contradiction. Do not twist a basic grammatical expression into an argument against the plain clear meaning of the verse, then substitute insults and sarcasm for evidence.

Revelation 1:7 say that every eye will see Him? Yes!

Does Jesus teach that the tribes of the earth will see Him coming in glory? Yes. Show from Scripture where these statements contradict each other. Until you do, your objection is nothing more than a grammatical distraction, followed by an unnecessary display of contempt.

You yourself showed the scripture where your beliefs contradict what is written. "Unfortunately, YOU are ignoring the words of Jesus Himself. He said": "every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him"--they that are already with Him, in Him, and whom we "in no way precede."

LoveYeshua · Oct 21, 2026

dak said:
He is not going to manifest himself to the world, ever, for the heavens and the earth shall pass away but his words shall not pass away. It is not possible for the world to see him because the world is full of natural and carnal minded fallen people. You are taking the most symbol filled prophetic book ever written and turning it into a natural minded fantasy.

Really? the following is for you and others on this thread but you will reject it.

EVERY EYE WILL SEE JESUS WHEN HE RETURNS — FACT OR FICTION?

Some claim that the return of Jesus is only symbolic, or that His coming was fulfilled in the events of AD 70. But we must let Scripture speak for itself. Jesus’ own words, the prophecies of the Old Testament, the testimony of His disciples, and the account of His ascension all point to a glorious return that will be seen. These passages belong together, forming a consistent picture of the coming of the LORD.

THE OLD TESTAMENT FORETOLD THE SON OF MAN COMING WITH THE CLOUDS
Daniel saw this vision long before Jesus came to earth: Daniel 7:13–14 (NKJV): “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.”
Jesus repeatedly called Himself the Son of Man. He also described His return using the same language of clouds and glory. Daniel’s vision establishes the heavenly authority and everlasting Kingdom of the coming Son of Man.

THE HEAVENLY SIGNS BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD
Joel 2:30–31 (NKJV): “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.”
Jesus described these same kinds of signs when explaining what would happen before His coming. These are not details we can simply ignore because we prefer a symbolic interpretation. We must allow Jesus’ own explanation to guide us.

THE LORD’S GLORY WILL BE REVEALED BEFORE ALL FLESH
Isaiah 40:5 (NKJV): “The glory of the LORD shall be revealed, And all flesh shall see it together; For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
Notice the words: “all flesh shall see it together.” This is consistent with a public revelation of the LORD’s glory, not a secret appearance witnessed by only a few people. Isaiah’s words prepare us to understand what Jesus and His disciples later declared about His return.

JESUS HIMSELF, WHO IS THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH SAID HIS COMING WOULD BE AFTER THE TRIBULATION
Matthew 24:29–31 (NKJV): “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Jesus does not say that only a few people will see Him, or that His coming will be invisible to the world. He says that the tribes of the earth will see Him coming with power and great glory. He places this event after the tribulation, alongside heavenly signs and the gathering of His elect.

JESUS’ DISCIPLE JOHN CONFIRMED THAT EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM
Revelation 1:7 (NKJV): “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.”
John’s words agree with Jesus’ own prophecy. Both speak of His coming with clouds and the mourning of the tribes of the earth. John makes the point unmistakable: “every eye will see Him.” This is not a claim that only believers will recognize Him. Even those who opposed Him are included in the statement.
To claim that this means nothing more than an invisible or purely symbolic event is to overlook the plain meaning of the words. The passage describes a coming that is revealed, seen, and causes the nations to mourn.

JESUS WILL RETURN IN THE SAME MANNER AS HE ASCENDED
Acts 1:9–12 (NKJV): “Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.’ Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day’s journey.”
The disciples saw Jesus ascend. The angels promised that this same Jesus would return in like manner. His ascension was a real event witnessed by His disciples, and the promise of His return should not be reduced to a figure of speech without clear scriptural reason. Zechariah also speaks of the LORD standing on the Mount of Olives.
Zechariah 14:3–5 (NKJV): “Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the holy ones with You.”
Zechariah does not explicitly name Jesus in this passage, so we should not pretend that every detail has been explained. Nevertheless, the location connects meaningfully with Acts 1, where Jesus ascended from the Mount of Olives.

WHAT ABOUT THE TRANSFIGURATION?
Matthew 17:1–5 records how Jesus took Peter, James, and John up a high mountain. His face shone like the sun, His clothes became white as the light, Moses and Elijah appeared, and a bright cloud overshadowed them. A voice from the cloud declared that Jesus was God’s beloved Son.
This was a real event witnessed by the disciples, not an imaginary story. But we must distinguish the Transfiguration from the Second Coming: it was a glimpse of Jesus’ majesty, not the final fulfilment of every prophecy about His return.
Peter later explained the importance of what he had witnessed. In 2 Peter 1:16–18 (NKJV), he wrote: “For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: ‘This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’ And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.”
Peter connects the Transfiguration with the power and coming of Jesus. The event gave the disciples a glimpse of His glory and strengthened their testimony concerning Him. It does not, by itself, prove that the Second Coming will look exactly like the Transfiguration. The clearer statements about how He will return are found in Matthew 24 and Acts 1.

TO CONCLUDE
The testimony is consistent. Daniel saw the Son of Man coming with the clouds and receiving an everlasting Kingdom. Joel foretold heavenly signs before the Day of the LORD. Isaiah declared that the LORD’s glory would be seen by all flesh. Jesus said that after the tribulation, the tribes of the earth would see Him coming with power and great glory. John declared that every eye would see Him. The angels promised that the same Jesus who ascended would return in like manner.
We should not confuse a real future event with a symbolic interpretation simply because its details are beyond our present understanding. At the same time, we must not claim that every prophetic image is literal in every detail without examining its context. The strongest proof is Jesus’ own plain statement in Matthew 24:29–31, confirmed by Revelation 1:7 and the promise in Acts 1:11.

Jesus said He would come after the tribulation, in power and great glory, and that the tribes of the earth would see Him. John said every eye would see Him. These are the words of Scripture, and they deserve to be taken seriously.

dak · Oct 21, 2026

I was not even able to quote the entire post above and add my response below because it was over ten thousand words: so here is the link to the post directly above this post and my response below.

Concerning Doctrines

I believe Philo copied Justin Martyr. He may have the Samaritan Dositheus. Start there. Acts 8:9-13, We get a specific episode in Samaria that concerns Simon, Simon the magician. In verse 9, There was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of...

www.christianityboard.com

If anyone else is interested in my responses to everything in the above post, just let me know and I will take the time to respond, but it will surely be lengthy. Otherwise I see no sense in taking that much time to respond to the above views of someone of a completely different focus and understanding based in the natural mind of a natural man who sees everything according to the eyes and mind of the flesh and physical world.

Moreover I would first need an okay from the OP of this thread, @MonoBiblical , because, as I said, it will be quite lengthy and is even now at the point of highjacking this thread. And if the OP does not want this to continue here, then if anyone is still interested, I guess you will need to start a new thread and invite me there.

Two things will be necessary for starters: 1) you must believe that you are indeed the temple of Elohim, (1Cor 3:16), 2) you must believe what Paul emphatically states about the Torah in Rom 7:14a, that the Torah is spiritual.

After that perhaps we might start here:

Leviticus 16:2 KJV
2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, [H3727] which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

H3727 BDB
כַּפֹּרֶת kappôreth
Definition:
1) mercy-seat, place of atonement
1a) the golden plate of propitiation on which the High Priest sprinkled the seat 7 times on the Day of Atonement symbolically reconciling Jehovah and His chosen people
1a1) the slab of gold on top of the ark of the covenant which measured 2.5 by 1.5 cubits; on it and part of it were the two golden cherubim facing each other whose outstretched wings came together above and constituted the throne of God
.

MonoBiblical · 2026-11-06T21:18:18-0600

newnature said:
Acts 8:9-13, We get a specific episode in Samaria that concerns Simon, Simon the magician. In verse 9, There was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. They all paid attention to him from the least to the greatest saying, This man is the power of God that is called great. And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. (The name, it’s not just Philip running around saying Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, he’s preaching a person, the name is the person.) And these people were baptized, both men and women. Even Simon himself believed. And after being baptized, he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

Acts 8:16-19, For the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen on any of them, and they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles hands, he offered them money saying, give me this power, that anyone on whom I lay my hands on may receive the Holy Spirit. It’s kind of a naive request, obviously in verse 20-23 Peter doesn’t like it. Verse 24, Simon says, Pray for me to the Lord that nothing of what you have said may come upon me. Was Simon a believer? The text says he believed, but he asks a naive question, because he wants to be part of this and there’s no indication in the text he wants to sort of go off and be a wizard or something like that.

Now Peter is really hard on Simon, but Peter wasn’t there at the beginning, Philip was. Peter doesn’t know this guy’s history, or of his conversion necessarily, and Peter’s offended, people don’t get the Holy Spirit by paying for it or anything like that. Peter said Simon’s heart’s not right before God, he rebukes him really harshly. But what does Simon say? Enough of you guys, I’m just going to go off and do my wizard act again. No, he says, Pray for me to the Lord that nothing of what you have said may come upon me. He’s sincere, Okay, I did wrong.

But in verse 10, this phrasing of what was said about Simon prior to his conversion. The people all paid attention to him from the least to the greatest saying, This man is the power of God that is called great. That’s significant, because in Samaritan Targums, Targums are just a word for a translation. The Targum of the Old Testament is the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Aramaic. The Targum of the Greek New Testament translated into Aramaic. The Samaritans had Targums and Samaritans have access to a Samaritan text, it’s not going to look like Hebrew, it’s still going to be Semitic, but it’s their own form. In ancient Samaritan Targums, the Hebrew word El, which means God and is often used as a proper name for God, is often represented by “great power” and is often used for “angels.” What’s being said here, this man is the power of God that is called great.

The claim apparently is that some people either we’re not really told if it’s by Simon’s encouragement or if they just drew this conclusion, but some people were associating his magic with God himself and were referring to him as great or the great one. That term in Samaritan Targums is also a divine name for God, God is the great power. When Simon is called great, it sort of moves him into the same category as God in the minds of those referring to him as this is the one who is great and the power among the angels. That links Simon to not only the great power abstractly, but actually the principal angel, the angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is Yahweh embodied as a man in the Old Testament, and he’s linked by virtue of what the New Testament does with some of those angel of the Lord passages, he’s linked to Jesus.

This portrayal of Simon, there were people, they weren’t thinking about Jesus when they were calling him the great one, the great power, this was a guy who some people associated with or as the angel of the Lord, that he was that close to God. The people look at the amazing magical stuff Simon does, the angel of the Lord has come to us and the power that he exhibits, they’re associating Simon with the second Yahweh figure of the Old Testament, the angel of the Lord. But who does Simon submit to? Who does Simon look at and essentially turn his back on his old life and believed in? It’s Jesus. It’s a victory of the true second power, the true second Yahweh over one who had been falsely claimed as having that status.

This has nothing to do with Philo being post Christ. You want to talk about a heretic who they called Simon, and who existed Acts. The Simon was Valentinus.

MonoBiblical · 2026-11-06T21:19:48-0600

dak said:
I was not even able to quote the entire post above and add my response below because it was over ten thousand words: so here is the link to the post directly above this post and my response below.

Concerning Doctrines

I believe Philo copied Justin Martyr. He may have the Samaritan Dositheus. Start there. Acts 8:9-13, We get a specific episode in Samaria that concerns Simon, Simon the magician. In verse 9, There was a man named Simon who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of...

www.christianityboard.com

If anyone else is interested in my responses to everything in the above post, just let me know and I will take the time to respond, but it will surely be lengthy. Otherwise I see no sense in taking that much time to respond to the above views of someone of a completely different focus and understanding based in the natural mind of a natural man who sees everything according to the eyes and mind of the flesh and physical world.

Moreover I would first need an okay from the OP of this thread, @MonoBiblical , because, as I said, it will be quite lengthy and is even now at the point of highjacking this thread. And if the OP does not want this to continue here, then if anyone is still interested, I guess you will need to start a new thread and invite me there.

Two things will be necessary for starters: 1) you must believe that you are indeed the temple of Elohim, (1Cor 3:16), 2) you must believe what Paul emphatically states about the Torah in Rom 7:14a, that the Torah is spiritual.

After that perhaps we might start here:

Leviticus 16:2 KJV
2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, [H3727] which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

H3727 BDB
כַּפֹּרֶת kappôreth
Definition:
1) mercy-seat, place of atonement
1a) the golden plate of propitiation on which the High Priest sprinkled the seat 7 times on the Day of Atonement symbolically reconciling Jehovah and His chosen people
1a1) the slab of gold on top of the ark of the covenant which measured 2.5 by 1.5 cubits; on it and part of it were the two golden cherubim facing each other whose outstretched wings came together above and constituted the throne of God
.

Start another thread then?

prism · 2026-11-06T21:49:11-0600

ScottA said:
"He ascended to heaven to await his future return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords" (#2). God is timeless and therefore doesn't "await" anything.

The Incarnation changed all that.

dak · 2026-11-06T22:38:43-0600

MonoBiblical said:
Start another thread then?

Thank you for your stance, (you being the OP of this thread), and that is precisely why I discontinued my part in that conversation.

ScottA · 2026-11-07T01:01:32-0600

prism said:
The Incarnation changed all that.

Not exactly. Yes, for a time, times, and half a time, the shadow of turning time was even experienced by God, but only for a time, and then comes the end.

So God into flesh is no act of hybrid or better spirit--not at all. On the contrary, the man of flesh is the man of sin revealed, the darkness brought to light; and if not for the grace and mercy of God, He would not have shined that light of Christ into this world, but rather let all flesh be destroyed long ago. As it is, all flesh is destroyed in time, and all that remains is that which is born of the Spirit--the spirit of God, as God is also.

Concerning Doctrines

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