Understanding Parable and Allegory in God's Word

bbyrd009 · Nov 12, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Should we trust “Follow Me”

ah well can we find a "dont follow Me?" From Jesus i mean, not from Paul? Not that i can think of...we do have a "dont worship Me" i guess, but imo there are many statements that should likely be taken at face value in Scripture, "literally" iow, and imo that is one of them. Ok well we do have count the cost i guess, huh...i would then look to see if Jesus was speaking to the Sea or an Apostle i guess, and go from there?

Man, we also have the take, eat, this is My Body thing, which imo can only be perceived as a deliberate offense toward Jewry, drink My blood is what would have been heard even though He obv was not offering, literally offering His blood, but new wine, grape juice, right.

Ha so youre asking me if we can trust Follow Me but see we absolutely do not believe and even teach against following Jesus' explicit instructions to first the 70, and then the 12? So it might be less a Q of "can we trust..." and more a Q of, um, "i dont know, can you?" ha
so far, no, i cant

VictoryinJesus said:
an absolute truth may be Romans 8:20-21 For the creature was made subject to vanity(futility, emptiness, worthlessness), not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

you would have to put that in english in order for me to reply. I mean i could do it, but then it wouldnt be you doing it, if you get me? Iow if you would state the AT that you interpret from that in your terms, and we can test it, but again, the AT thing is really...spiritually moot, i think. It is a clever play on our accepted definition of AT, which really deals solely with the um "seen," or appearances, iow. It is a parlor trick, basically, that i was given imo to get ppl to think differently, which was meant to be the point.

So now i'll say that there are certainly many ATs in Scriture, and just no one has ever called me on them, "such and such a place was about a days walk from so and so" or whatever, statements like that. Iow spiritually null.

You cannot state a single spiritual truth from Scripture too, however, that is an Absolute one, at least imo, simply for the um "fact" that spiritual truths are not encompassed by facts, right? Is there a "Trinity" in Scripture? No, you cant Quote the words. And yes; even the Qur'an uses We. Was it developed in order to degrade monotheism, or to draw more pagans to monotheism? Imo the answer is really less revealing than what is revealed by who answers? It becomes a great subject to determine how bloodthirsty a believer is, imo, mostly. Around trinitarians i'm a trinitarian, and around oneness ppl i'm oneness, bc they are all pretty bloodthirsty to me lol. I look for the one who is more like "meh, show me the diff first" or "this week i'm oneness" or best one imo "i dont know"

VictoryinJesus said:
Another absolute may be that “hope” of deliverance from the bondage of corruption IS in power given of God to becomes Sons of God

ok well you attempting spiritual ATs here obv so my reply would be that we as believers are often seeking or hoping to someday have the "power," right, when it is powerlessness that we should be...ha well i cant say "striving for" or even "seeking" bc powerlessness is easy right, just shut up and stop directing/controlling/driving, right
Lemme know how that goes for you btw

VictoryinJesus · Nov 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
yet at the same time greater love has no man huh

now that you brought attention to it...there is a greater love in one laying down his life for his enemies....but there again I’m growing more confused at isn’t that the power He gives to become Sons?

bbyrd009 · Nov 12, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

man, with the barketh, barketh lol. anyway, arent we all pretty much trying to humbly and wholesomely find our best life, within the confines of our culture? Is that a good thing, or is it pointless or even killing us? Bc i gotta tell ya i have conscientiously done both now--i think 10 years of functioning without $ or home qualifies for the second? And i cannot answer the Q. Qs. I mean you caught me at a crossroads right now, and this has become--like as of this minute--an existential Q for me, that i cannot answer.

Should i go sleep in the swamp again tonight, or accept this $200 a day job? Im in the Golden Triangle right now, already turned down the um $300 a night job attending "key parties" with the old ladies--attractive old ladies, rich attractive old ladies--at the Village...The Villages? idk, some famous place here. Which idk if they would have even let me in, dont get me wrong. But i am tall and blond, still have all my hair, etc. pretty sure i would have been let in. But i mean that Q was easy now lol. The other one not so much; i keep conscientiously trying those and they keep leading me into moral dilemmas?

VictoryinJesus said:
to say no man can lay down his life for his friends

well, wait, imo No Son of Man may die for another's sins is a diff subject, bc one is "willingly" and the other is not? Which is why it is written that Jesus gave His life "willingly?" Even though we are fully aware that He would rather have lived, and even prayed as much. So again, another conundrum

did Jesus die "willingly?" Yes, and no. Right?
q

VictoryinJesus said:
^ power given to lay down ones life for a friend and no greater love or charity has any than this: to lay down their life for Christ. (You are friends)

hmm, i would stick with for their friends there and not be helping Scripture myself, as my current understanding and even current experiences are telling me that practicing powerlessness is going to engender abuse, more abuse, than if i had asserted myself and stood up for my "rights," etc. If i am getting you that is, maybe i misconstrued?

VictoryinJesus · Nov 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
well, wait, imo No Son of Man may die for another's sins is a diff subject, bc one is "willingly" and the other is not? Which is why it is written that Jesus gave His life "willingly?" Even though we are fully aware that He would rather have lived, and even prayed as much. So again, another conundrum

did Jesus die "willingly?" Yes, and no. Right?
q

willingly yes...In no man takes it. “having the power to” which was the question in being given the power to become Sons...John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Tecarta Bible

VictoryinJesus · Nov 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
hmm, i would stick with for their friends there and not be helping Scripture myself,

Sure. John 15:13-14 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [14] Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
...question is what does He command you?

bbyrd009 said:
as my current understanding and even current experiences are telling me that practicing powerlessness is going to engender abuse, more abuse, than if i had asserted myself and stood up for my "rights," etc.

“powerlessness” in whose sight? “...is going to gender abuse, more abuse, than if I had asserted myself and stood up for my rights” ...Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

bbyrd009 · Nov 12, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
now that you brought attention to it...there is a greater love in one laying down his life for his enemies....

i brought attn to laying down your life for your enemies? What enemies?

but there again I’m growing more confused at isn’t that the power He gives to become Sons?

the power to lay down your life for your enemies? I might be confused myself, or not hearing you right, but i dont get the concept i guess...could you rephrase that?

my current understanding and even current experiences are telling me that practicing powerlessness...

...among my friends, i meant there
i say that bc being evil, i dont think i should count myself among Christ's friends
if you then, being evil...

VictoryinJesus said:
willingly yes...In no man takes it. “having the power to” which was the question in being given the power to become Sons...John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Tecarta Bible

ok, this may not be pertinent at all, dunno, so these are just some observations ok;
Jesus received a "commandment" (although i would wanna see the root words there) to...what exactly? Lay His life down, and take it up again? Which we have received no such commandment, that i am aware of; "thou shalt allow thy friends to kill you." Ergo Jesus' power seems to be being conflated with the power given to those who have received Him, to become Sons of God...which Jesus never referred to Himself as, exactly; always "Son of Man," right.

Not saying that He was not the Son of God here ok, just observations, even though it seems apparent that anyone who actually picked up their cross and followed--iow not me--would also have this same "power," which is actually the power to be powerless, which is lets admit really easy, only virtually impossible.

For an extreme example we might contemplate something like "this guy and i were marooned, and he was starving, so i let him hack off my arm and gave it to him to eat" (take, eat, this is my body) now what would be your reaction to your friend who has just told you this? And remember that Jesus never did this...and i wanna say i doubt He would have, but i dunno, prolly moot

bbyrd009 · Nov 12, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Sure. John 15:13-14 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [14] Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you...question is what does He command you?

2 He told them:b “The harvest c is abundant, but the workers d are few. Therefore, pray to the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.e
3 Now go; I’m sending you out like lambs among wolves.f
4 Don’t carry a money-bag,g traveling bag,h or sandals;i don’t greet anyone along the road.
5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace j to this household.’
6 If a son of peace k is there, your peace l will rest on him; but if not, it will return to you.
7 Remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they offer, for the worker is worthy of his wages.m Don’t be moving from house to house.
8 When you enter any town, and they welcome you, eat the things set before you

VictoryinJesus · Nov 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
i brought attn to laying down your life for your enemies? What enemies?
the power to lay down your life for your enemies? I might be confused myself, or not hearing you right, but i dont get the concept i guess...could you rephrase that?
...among my friends, i meant there
i say that bc being evil, i dont think i should count myself among Christ's friends
if you then, being evil...

ok, this may not be pertinent at all, dunno, so these are just some observations ok;
Jesus received a "commandment" (although i would wanna see the root words there) to...what exactly? Lay His life down, and take it up again? Which we have received no such commandment, that i am aware of; "thou shalt allow thy friends to kill you." Ergo Jesus' power seems to be being conflated with the power given to those who have received Him, to become Sons of God...which Jesus never referred to Himself as, exactly; always "Son of Man," right.

Not saying that He was not the Son of God here ok, just observations, even though it seems apparent that anyone who actually picked up their cross and followed--iow not me--would also have this same "power," which is actually the power to be powerless, which is lets admit really easy, only virtually impossible.

For an extreme example we might contemplate something like "this guy and i were marooned, and he was starving, so i let him hack off my arm and gave it to him to eat" (take, eat, this is my body) now what would be your reaction to your friend who has just told you this? And remember that Jesus never did this...and i wanna say i doubt He would have, but i dunno, prolly moot

I guess it comes down to what each of us think to word is saying to do(action). Unless I’ve misunderstood you seem to believe it is to not take the 300 a night job, have a home and to possibly sleep in a swamp; sell it all and have nothing? And I’m not saying that is wrong. But I have those things too that the word says to do...although different.

VictoryinJesus · Nov 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
ok, this may not be pertinent at all, dunno, so these are just some observations ok;
Jesus received a "commandment" (although i would wanna see the root words there) to...what exactly? Lay His life down, and take it up again? Which we have received no such commandment, that i am aware of;

No such command? I’m so lost. Mark 8:34-35 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [35] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

ἐξουσίαν
(exousian) 1849: power to act, authority

John 10:18 Lexicon: "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."

John 1:12 Lexicon: But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

“He gave the right” ἐξουσίαν
(exousian) 1849: power to act, authority

VictoryinJesus · Nov 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
brought attn to laying down your life for your enemies? What enemies?

Not meaning me or my enemies but God’s. You brought attention earlier in regards to: John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

That God goes further in (Matthew 5:44-48)

Naomi25 · Nov 13, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
no doubt, miss n

well, i guess you havent gotten down to that part yet; God does not "exist!"
ex·ist
/iɡˈzist/
verb

1.
have objective reality or being.

so again dont get me wrong, i believe in Yah, but "He" does not exist, and this is why we call them "beliefs" and not "facts" i guess. That is truth, according to our definition.

I do believe God is real. Is that the truth? God is truth, right. I'm not saying that one right, there is also a clever thing for that one

so anyway to your point, i agree
but so what
we both define "God" differently, and the Abarim have an imo good article for this, "what God is and what God is not" i think it is. I'm sure you will be as amazed as i was how many different words were xlated to us as simply "God," completely dumbing down Yah's Breath. imo.
ha well it isnt that we would question His "Word" but that we would misinterpret it into "Easter" to serve ourselves? See, you are still calling Yah's Breath "Word" even though you cannot Quote this, which i get how that sounds to you but just imagine how Yah feels when you deem Easter "Word?" So i realize you are not meaning to be um sacreligious or anything, and are prolly just exhibiting reverence for Scripture as best you know how, but wadr Paul said "all writings are excellent for instruction reproof" whatever paraphrased, graphe iow, and even contrasted it with gramme to make the point, Timothy i think? 1 Timothy?

miss n, it is most certainly untrue, or see you may as well accept your own private interpretations for everything?

Once you insist that Yah exists see the next step is to be putting It in some kind of dress, and prolly attaching a beard to Her, and deciding that He has a penis, etc, see. And right after that the Unapproached Yah becomes a person, see, and right after that He gets put in a pantheon with equals, and before you know it you are praying to Mary and celebrating "Ishtar" and dont get me wrong, i am not judging these as evil bc i dont believe they are, gimme someone praying to Mary and confessing to Some Guy they call Father over someone not praying at all and not confessing at all any day of the week and twice on Sabbath, but why call it Christianity then?

i love Catholics, ok, why not call it "Catholicism?"

narf, have a nice day naomi
then why, oh why, miss n, would you sit still for someone scribing Ishtar into Yah's "Word," His very Essence? And in place of your Passover, CHRIST, no less?
aaa-men miss n, and i hope you might come to understand why, from the explanation above. All the gods (that are made of wood, and "exist," see) i know have fallen
miss n i had forgotten or did not realize you were RCC, or i never would have proceeded this far with you. Bam go with that then, ok, i would hate for that to come between our hearts.

so, some quite pertinent Scripture, just for you and other papists;
"The month Tammuz isn't really mentioned by name in the Bible. But on the fifth day of the sixth month (that's the month Elul), the prophet Ezekiel envisioned the Temple of YHWH in which northern gate women were weeping over Tammuz. Tammuz was a much revered deity, linked to resurrection from the realm of the dead, fertility, shepherds and the provision of milk, and the growth of food on fields (hence the ritualistic mourning of his perceived death during the dry and hot summer). Much later, the prophet envisioned the restored temple, with the glory of YHWH visible from the north gate instead of the abominable women weeping over Tammuz (compare Ezekiel 8:14 to 44:4)." The mysterious Hebrew Calendar
the current "north gate" of Christianity should not be too hard to figure out i guess
if you ref any instance of pneuma im sure you will see "Who" says Word must be heard, miss n
"Easter," miss n, so you tell me.
gotta love this pope though, huh?

man i love that guy

ezackly lol. At least until you can Quote "Christ returning..."

"the best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible"
SClemens

I will never leave you nor forsake you
.

avoiding the point of Easter of course, and scribes, but great idea imo! And imo you had many other valuable insights ok, pretty much everything i did not snip to reply to i agree with, surely
have a blessed day
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only thing that can ever come from ignoring a boundary stone or moving it is pain and strife, in my opinion
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word.
like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and
But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD to see or to
hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word?
and there proclaim this message: "'Hear the word of the LORD, all you people of
etc, and i doubt that we should equate this kind of "hearing" with our ears, fwiw
you do not hear the Word with your ears, imo, note "to see" above which surely does not mean "with your two eyes" either, ref our common idiom "oh, i see now," "do you hear what i am saying," etc

I sense we are drawing to a close on our conversation. Clearly I am not going to convince you of a thing; and sorry, you are not going to change my mind either. Not that winning a conversation is the be all and end all of anything, I suppose.
But, before I go, I want to mention: no, I'm not RCC. No, I don't read the versions of scripture that replace 'Passover' with Easter, and I most certainly don't like the ones that do...its inaccurate. And I suppose instead of debating with me about the relative vs absolute truth in regards to God's existence or not, you might just wait and see. I'm sure God will clear it up in due time.

bbyrd009 · Nov 13, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
I guess it comes down to what each of us think to word is saying to do(action). Unless I’ve misunderstood you seem to believe it is to not take the 300 a night job, have a home and to possibly sleep in a swamp; sell it all and have nothing? And I’m not saying that is wrong. But I have those things too that the word says to do...although different.

ha ok that wasnt really a um job, lol...more like an adventure, in STDs or something. nevermind. I never actually had to sleep ina swamp anyway, i was just like moaning. Anyway, imo the point, a point, a central point of learning to Read naively that i have learned, is that different is great, there is nothing wrong with different. I would even say that you might be approaching the Pearl there
So iow Muslims are not your enemies, just as Russians were not before them. Some of them maybe, in their minds anyway, but then that would be on them

VictoryinJesus said:
No such command? I’m so lost. Mark 8:34-35 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [35] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

ok, i always took that to be "life" in the sense of "in the world, in society" less literally iow, as literally it ...could easily suggest like martyrdom or whatever? Or at best being abused literally to death? Which does seem to maybe be a possibility, dunno

VictoryinJesus said:
right” ἐξουσίαν
(exousian) 1849: power to act, authority

ha ok notice how that interprets into "God gave Him the right to not exercise His authority and power?"

VictoryinJesus said:
Not meaning me or my enemies but God’s. You brought attention earlier in regards to: John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

That God goes further in (Matthew 5:44-48)

ha well dang nice imo, Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, huh. What i cnt figure out is, why would He be anxious to live like that, seems like He would be more begging for it to come earlier, particularly knowing what He knew? But again you have kinda led me to an existential crossroads here, and i prolly should not even be replying right now or something, i'm pretty whacked right now

bbyrd009 · Nov 13, 2019

Naomi25 said:
I sense we are drawing to a close on our conversation. Clearly I am not going to convince you of a thing; and sorry, you are not going to change my mind either. Not that winning a conversation is the be all and end all of anything, I suppose.

fwiw i didnt expect to change your mind right herenow in this moment anyway, nor did i believe that i really even needed to; you have faith in Yah already. And even if faith is a noun to you, and not how i would define faith, idc any more.

I do not have to agree with you, for you to be perfect just like you are, Naomi. There are plenty of places where we would agree, yes? We just happen to be here with our swords out, discussing where we do not agree, imo.

And fwiw you have convinced me of a few things, just in the last day or so

Naomi25 said:
But, before I go, I want to mention: no, I'm not RCC. No, I don't read the versions of scripture that replace 'Passover' with Easter, and I most certainly don't like the ones that do...its inaccurate. And I suppose instead of debating with me about the relative vs absolute truth in regards to God's existence or not, you might just wait and see. I'm sure God will clear it up in due time.

it is mostly this attitude of superiority of beliefs--which i share btw--that i hope we have il
luminated a bit better for some reader. Irl i would never have debated with you like this, but i saw that we could provide a contemplation on how to make enemies out of friends

so, i'm having my best life now, wouldnt have things any other way, and i hope you are doing the same. Life is better today by any measure we might care to invoke than it has ever been, Empire in the Decline/Decadence stage or not, i guess

bbyrd009 · Nov 13, 2019

Naomi25 said:
And I suppose instead of debating with me about the relative vs absolute truth in regards to God's existence or not, you might just wait and see. I'm sure God will clear it up in due time.

well, there can be no doubt that God does not "exist," according to our definition of that term, Naomi.
So it becomes just another play on words, yes? A way for us to disagree, when really we are in agreement where God is concerned for the most part?

But again i would suggest that...um, not agreeing with accepted definitions of terms is not a good thing imo, ok? It becomes a private interpretation?

VictoryinJesus · Nov 13, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
ok, i always took that to be "life" in the sense of "in the world, in society" less literally iow, as literally it ...could easily suggest like martyrdom or whatever?

Behaviors changed from animalistic to something new and unseen, yet manifested. Always took it as not doing your own ways but His way...as in the world but no longer of its: to kill, steal, and destroy to have and never have. How many times did Paul speak of being manifested before them..approving what is acceptable unto God. The abuse of his children ...(imo) is not acceptable but the way they act toward the abuse(the blessing overcomes the curse). same in the OT “whom the world did not deserve to know” but regardless God made manifest to not condemn the world but save it out of emptiness.

bbyrd009 said:
ha ok that wasnt really a um job, lol...more like an adventure, in STDs or something. nevermind. I never actually had to sleep ina swamp anyway, i was just like moaning. Anyway, imo the point, a point, a central point of learning to Read naively that i have learned, is that different is great, there is nothing wrong with different. I would even say that you might be approaching the Pearl there

understand...still you could behave like an animal or not. Surely you realize there are consequences but is that the only reason you choose another way...protection of self?

speaking of the pearl ...that Spirit of great price ...He said to learn of Him, to take on His yoke: He is lowly and meek. Have to consider “in humiliation his judgement was taken away” Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

A piece of gnawed up meat is stripped of pride. Yet it is offensive. Stripped of the image of the world. The parable where the seed is sown in stony ground; enduring for a time and then becomes offended when persecution rises for the Words sake...they go away not “willing” to endure any shame or humiliation for the pearl of great price. Guess one could maybe say “the pearl” of great price... Is offensive and likened to being a stumbling stone where to price is too high.

bbyrd009 said:
ha ok notice how that interprets into "God gave Him the right to not exercise His authority and power?"

yes ...the right to act.
As as many as has received Him the same right to act Given.
The verse about man was sold into an emptiness by reason of Him who revealed to man hope of being filled with God...no longer empty but spiritually abounding and fruitful. (Or at least that is what it says to me) ...God manifest something not empty which is the fruit of righteousness sown of those you sow the peaceable fruit of righteousness. The more the curse rises against His body...the more peaceable fruit is sown and we are told the peaceable fruit (good) overcomes the evil and the curse and death. You mention sometimes as if there is nothing after this death...but The passage where Paul said he died daily ...to me they are mumbling there is no life after death...they are terrified to lose this life. “What if God is a liar?” Paul seems to be saying if he would listen to their doubts Paul might as well go hide in the closet whenever they (whoever) is coming that day for him for the sake of the gospel. But instead he is fighting with beast (spiritually) daily not afraid of death Or losing...seeing fully well the restoration and the Lord is merciful. Could suggest Paul knew the power(right to act) in “no man takes my life...I willingly have the power to lay it down and take it up again (quickened by the Spirit within). active Living Faith. overcomes “void” “in vain” “empty” “unprofitable” “worthlessness”...said the suffering is not worthy to be compared to the glory revealed ... could suggest the pearl of great price ...the great price is not worthy to be compared to the Pearl and what is gained.

bbyrd009 said:
Or at best being abused literally to death?

abused (literally) unto death (not literal death but crucified with Him)...2 Corinthians 4:11-15 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. [12] So then death worketh in us, but life in you. [13] We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; [14] Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. [15] For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

Naomi25 · Nov 14, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
fwiw i didnt expect to change your mind right herenow in this moment anyway, nor did i believe that i really even needed to; you have faith in Yah already. And even if faith is a noun to you, and not how i would define faith, idc any more.

I do not have to agree with you, for you to be perfect just like you are, Naomi. There are plenty of places where we would agree, yes? We just happen to be here with our swords out, discussing where we do not agree, imo.

And fwiw you have convinced me of a few things, just in the last day or so

Well...for what its worth, I don't consider our conversation a sword battle! I actually think this time we managed to keep it pretty well contained to back and forth of ideas! Ideas we don't really agree on...but I think we've reached a point where we can agree to disagree, yes?!

it is mostly this attitude of superiority of beliefs--which i share btw--that i hope we have il
luminated a bit better for some reader. Irl i would never have debated with you like this, but i saw that we could provide a contemplation on how to make enemies out of friends

so, i'm having my best life now, wouldnt have things any other way, and i hope you are doing the same. Life is better today by any measure we might care to invoke than it has ever been, Empire in the Decline/Decadence stage or not, i guess

Hmm. Well, I don't know that I would ever term it that way: 'attitude of superiority of beliefs'. I think it more a matter of...when you understand something to be correct...to be true (although I hesitate to use that word, considering its at the heart of our disagreement!), you inherently want others to see that truth as well. It's like wanting a blind man to see the sunrise. He can't see it, so how can he know it to be true? Well, we can certainly tell him about it, but more, we wish him to see, to experience that great truth. Because its beautiful. And for me, that is 'the best life now'. It's not really about me, you see. It's about God. It's when I'm looking at him that I'm happy.

Naomi25 · Nov 14, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
well, there can be no doubt that God does not "exist," according to our definition of that term, Naomi.
So it becomes just another play on words, yes? A way for us to disagree, when really we are in agreement where God is concerned for the most part?

But again i would suggest that...um, not agreeing with accepted definitions of terms is not a good thing imo, ok? It becomes a private interpretation?

Well...personally...I tend to think that is all getting a little bit 'knit-picky'. Can't exactly bring the passage to mind at the moment, but Paul uses a phrase where he basically says, "I'm dumbing down my language because I'm talking to you, and you have no hope of understanding if I don't".
People need to be able to have language they can grab onto and understand. That may play havoc in your ASD brain....I get that, my whole family is ASD. But you have to make exceptions for the fact that like others are different from us, so God is different from all...and therefore language is going to be used in ways that help get across ideas and build understanding, rather than lay down hard and certain facts.
But you know what? I'm cool with the fact that you're happy where you are. I've got no real desire to shove you off your happy perch! So if what you're doing is working for you, and if you feel you have a good relationship with God...good on you! We all do what we can I think. And as long as we keep growing, keep reaching towards him, he'll honor that longing in us, no matter how different it looks in each of us.

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2019

Naomi25 said:
Well...for what its worth, I don't consider our conversation a sword battle! I actually think this time we managed to keep it pretty well contained to back and forth of ideas! Ideas we don't really agree on...but I think we've reached a point where we can agree to disagree, yes?!

Hmm. Well, I don't know that I would ever term it that way: 'attitude of superiority of beliefs'. I think it more a matter of...when you understand something to be correct...to be true (although I hesitate to use that word, considering its at the heart of our disagreement!), you inherently want others to see that truth as well. It's like wanting a blind man to see the sunrise. He can't see it, so how can he know it to be true? Well, we can certainly tell him about it, but more, we wish him to see, to experience that great truth. Because its beautiful. And for me, that is 'the best life now'. It's not really about me, you see. It's about God. It's when I'm looking at him that I'm happy.

i dint know, but i suggest that you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free is a way of saying "what is currently true may shortly be false, and when you understand this you will stop insisting upon your pov"

we are complacent with the um fact now, but it was surely an astounding revelation and even unbelievable for the ancients to realize that the sun did not actually rise at all; they rolled toward it, and then away from it, daily, in its gravity well.

i too have no problem if you choose to believe God exists, Naomi, imo it is really just mostly another play on a technical definition i guess

farouk · Nov 19, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
Not meaning me or my enemies but God’s. You brought attention earlier in regards to: John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

That God goes further in (Matthew 5:44-48)

John's Gospel is so rich and searching that sometimes a Bible study in John can go on for years, verse by verse...

Davy · Nov 20, 2019

Who can understand this allegory that our Lord Jesus used in John 4 when speaking with the Samaritan woman at the well?

John 4:15-20
15 The woman saith unto Him, "Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw."

16 Jesus saith unto her, "Go, call thy husband, and come hither."

17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said unto her, "Thou hast well said, 'I have no husband':

18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

19 The woman saith unto Him, "Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and Ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship."
KJV

Notice how the subject abruptly changes between verse 18 and verse 20. At one point the subject they were discussing was her husbands. And then suddenly the subject changed to Jerusalem at that time being the proper place of worship. By that there is a correlation shown, a link to the idea of something her husbands represent, and the idea of false worship. Can anyone explain what that analogy link is here in this conversation between our Lord Jesus and that Samaritan woman?

Understanding Parable and Allegory in God's Word

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