Isaiah 45:7

charity · May 19, 2020

'I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.'
(Isaiah 45:7)

Hello there,

In the verse above the Hebrew word translated 'evil' (H7451) is never translated 'sin'. I feel it is important to stress this. Here in this verse disturbance is contrasted with peace. The word, 'create' also, in this verse means 'bring about'. God brings calamity about as the inevitable consequence of sin. He did not create sin.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

CadyandZoe · May 20, 2020

Good word Chris. I wonder why Isaiah thought it was important for his readers to know that it was God, and not some other cause of Israel's troubles?

Thanks for posting this.
P.S. How does one cause a link to scripture as you have done? I like that.

charity · May 20, 2020

CadyandZoe said:
Good word Chris. I wonder why Isaiah thought it was important for his readers to know that it was God, and not some other cause of Israel's troubles?

Thanks for posting this.
P.S. How does one cause a link to scripture as you have done? I like that

Hi @CadyandZoe,

The link comes automatically when you type in the full reference, but not when you use an abbreviation.

In Isaiah 45:7, God is speaking directly through Isaiah to Cyrus (Isaiah 45:1)

'I am the LORD,
.. and there is none else,
.... there is no God beside Me:
I girded thee,
.. though thou hast not known Me:
.... That they may know from the rising of the sun,
...... and from the west,
........ that there is none beside Me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
.. I form the light, and create darkness:
.... I make peace, and create evil:
...... I the LORD do all these things.
Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
.. and let the skies pour down righteousness:
.... let the earth open,
...... and let them bring forth salvation,
........ and let righteousness spring up together;
I the LORD have created it.'
(Isaiah 45:5-8)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

CadyandZoe · May 20, 2020

Thanks so much. Should I say "cheers"?

101G · May 25, 2020

charity said:
'I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.'
(Isaiah 45:7)

Hello there,

In the verse above the Hebrew word translated 'evil' (H7451) is never translated 'sin'. I feel it is important to stress this. Here in this verse disturbance is contrasted with peace. The word, 'create' also, in this verse means 'bring about'. God brings calamity about as the inevitable consequence of sin. He did not create sin.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Good topic, and a good eye to spot the truth. Correct, evil is not sin, and many people was taught that the devil is sin, no, he's just evil. now when I say what I'm about to say please don't take offense. "THANK GOD FOR THE DEVIL". notice who I thanked.... (smile). but evil has its place in the economy of God for us, as to not let us go spiritually bankrupt.

what do I mean? evil causes trouble, or tribulation, do it not? which is for our GOOD, yes, for our GOOD. let me explain, for without tribulation we would become valetudinarian Christian, spiritually speaking, meaning "WEAK" Christian, spiritually. evil will make us stronger in the Lord, lets back this up in scripture,
Romans 5:3 "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"
Romans 5:4 "And patience, experience; and experience, hope:" (hope here is FAITH)
Romans 5:5 "And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

and to certify this tribulation, in the building of our FAITH, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"
2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;" (THERE IS THAT PATIENCE)

2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity."
2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

see charity, you have a GOOD topic here on your hands. this is why I know that the church is not raptured out of any tribulation. she, the church must GO through the fire, (so to speak), to come out pristine clean, and sparkling as pure GOLD.

this is what @Waiting on him and this wife was getting at in the topic about the Beggar, and the rich man. see we're going to go through TRIBULATION, for any dross will be clean away, then we can shine as true sons and daughters of God as he desire.

so your topic is a GOOD one indeed.

these good topice are making the bible smaller and smaller to understand the Big Picture. this topic kinda put a new prospective on the Devil... don't it.....

take care,

PICJAG.

Waiting on him · May 25, 2020

101G said:
Good topic, and a good eye to spot the truth. Correct, evil is not sin, and many people was taught that the devil is sin, no, he's just evil. now when I say what I'm about to say please don't take offense. "THANK GOD FOR THE DEVIL". notice who I thanked.... (smile). but evil has its place in the economy of God for us, as to not let us go spiritually bankrupt.

what do I mean? evil causes trouble, or tribulation, do it not? which is for our GOOD, yes, for our GOOD. let me explain, for without tribulation we would become valetudinarian Christian, spiritually speaking, meaning "WEAK" Christian, spiritually. evil will make us stronger in the Lord, lets back this up in scripture,
Romans 5:3 "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"
Romans 5:4 "And patience, experience; and experience, hope:" (hope here is FAITH)
Romans 5:5 "And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

and to certify this tribulation, in the building of our FAITH, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;"
2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;" (THERE IS THAT PATIENCE)

2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity."
2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."
2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

see charity, you have a GOOD topic here on your hands. this is why I know that the church is not raptured out of any tribulation. she, the church must GO through the fire, (so to speak), to come out pristine clean, and sparkling as pure GOLD.

this is what @Waiting on him and this wife was getting at in the topic about the Beggar, and the rich man. see we're going to go through TRIBULATION, for any dross will be clean away, then we can shine as true sons and daughters of God as he desire.

so your topic is a GOOD one indeed.

these good topice are making the bible smaller and smaller to understand the Big Picture. this topic kinda put a new prospective on the Devil... don't it.....

take care,

PICJAG.

Interesting indeed, my wife brought to my attention about a year ago He blows the coals. It seems this weapon that is formed against is for our good.

101G · May 25, 2020

Waiting on him said:
Interesting indeed, my wife brought to my attention about a year ago He blows the coals. It seems this weapon that is formed against is for our good.

yelp, and you jogged my memory on this, notice what our bro James said by the Holy Ghost, James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"
James 1:3 "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."
James 1:4 "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."

James said, "count it all JOY... "WHEN", not .... "if" ... but "WHEN" temptation come your way. Oh yes it's comming. the tempter is on his Job.

Thanks,

PICJAG

Waiting on him · May 25, 2020

101G said:
yelp, and you jogged my memory on this, notice what our bro James said by the Holy Ghost, James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"
James 1:3 "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."
James 1:4 "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."

James said, "count it all JOY... "WHEN", not .... "if" ... but "WHEN" temptation come your way. Oh yes it's comming. the tempter is on his Job.

Thanks,

PICJAG

That's another thing about Lazarus that was interesting to me said all he ever received was evil, Job said shall I receive only good and no evil?

101G · May 25, 2020

Waiting on him said:
That's another thing about Lazarus that was interesting to me said all he ever received was evil, Job said shall I receive only good and no evil?

a note: everybody Faith is not at the same level. some can endure more that others, but in the finish, the end we all will be able to endure, remember Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." and everyone in Christ is an overcomer, because he is the author and finisher of our "FAITH". so we cannot lose, unles Jesus is a lier, God forbid, he is not, so then we're overcomer's in him.

PICJAG.

RainAndIceCream · May 26, 2020

charity said:
'I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.'
(Isaiah 45:7)

Hello there,

In the verse above the Hebrew word translated 'evil' (H7451) is never translated 'sin'. I feel it is important to stress this. Here in this verse disturbance is contrasted with peace. The word, 'create' also, in this verse means 'bring about'. God brings calamity about as the inevitable consequence of sin. He did not create sin.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hello back,
May we consider the Hamartiology behind the question? And the definition of sin first?
Sin being an offense or violation against his law. Would then the consideration toward obedience and disobedience, consequence, all pertain first and foremost to God? Having created his law to be obeyed, the non-compliance factor, sin, would be a product of his creation of his law. Further, isn't sin considered an evil act? Either against what God prefers in our behaviors, or as pertains to our actions toward others.

charity · May 27, 2020

RainAndIceCream said:
Hello back,
May we consider the Hamartiology behind the question? And the definition of sin first?
Sin being an offense or violation against his law. Would then the consideration toward obedience and disobedience, consequence, all pertain first and foremost to God? Having created his law to be obeyed, the non-compliance factor, sin, would be a product of his creation of his law. Further, isn't sin considered an evil act? Either against what God prefers in our behaviors, or as pertains to our actions toward others.

For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God; ... '
(Rom 3:23)

Hello @RainAndIceCream,

I believe that essentially sin means to 'come short', or miss the mark. Sin is also 'the transgression of the law'(1 John 3:4), for sin is lawlessness. However, in relation to Isaiah 45:7, and the words, 'I make peace, and create evil', the word translated 'evil' is never translated 'sin': so it can never be said that God created sin; but He does create 'evil' in the form of disruption or catastrophe as a consequence of sin.

*I have read:- 'Darkness is the negation of light, sin is the negation of right.' God is light, darkness is the result of shutting out the light. Sin is a negative, whereas righteousness is a positive.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

charity · May 27, 2020

CadyandZoe said:
Good word Chris. I wonder why Isaiah thought it was important for his readers to know that it was God, and not some other cause of Israel's troubles?

Thanks for posting this.
P.S. How does one cause a link to scripture as you have done? I like that.

Hello @CadvandZoe,

Sorry to have missed this. Israel were, and will be again, the People of God. He had told them, through Moses what would be the result if they should sin against Him:-

'For this commandment which I command thee this day,
.. it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
.... It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say,
...... Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
........ Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say,
.......... Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
............ But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
.. In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God,
.... to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments,
...... that thou mayest live and multiply:
........ and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear,
but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish,
.. and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land,
.... whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you,
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:
therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
.. That thou mayest love the LORD thy God,
.... and that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him:
...... for He is thy life, and the length of thy days:
........ that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,
.......... to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.'
(Deu 30:11-20)

* What powerful words these are, aren't they. God is not to be trifled with.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

mjrhealth · May 27, 2020

RainAndIceCream said:
Sin being an offense or violation against his law

I guess you missed the bit where it says, sin existed before the law,but where there is no law sin is not imputed. Sin existed from Adam to Moses, before the law, which is why I think it was Paul, said, when the law came sin was revealed and I died

RainAndIceCream · May 27, 2020

He

charity said:
For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God; ... '
(Rom 3:23)

Hello @RainAndIceCream,

I believe that essentially sin means to 'come short', or miss the mark. Sin is also 'the transgression of the law'(1 John 3:4), for sin is lawlessness. However, in relation to Isaiah 45:7, and the words, 'I make peace, and create evil', the word translated 'evil' is never translated 'sin': so it can never be said that God created sin; but He does create 'evil' in the form of disruption or catastrophe as a consequence of sin.

*I have read:- 'Darkness is the negation of light, sin is the negation of right.' God is light, darkness is the result of shutting out the light. Sin is a negative, whereas righteousness is a positive.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hello again,

I see God's word as informing what is our perceived,conscious, reality. As such, I dare not imagine the state of sin, its meaning and consequence, could originate from nor through any other than our precious and beloved, Alpha and Omega, Father.
God's law is his directive as to what we are to do. The converse is that which is wrongly done in his sight. If God determined what is right-eous in his sight, his edict must operate upon the converse, that which is wrong,or, "sin". Colossians 1. Blessings, W.

RainAndIceCream · May 27, 2020

mjrhealth said:
I guess you missed the bit where it says, sin existed before the law,but where there is no law sin is not imputed. Sin existed from Adam to Moses, before the law, which is why I think it was Paul, said, when the law came sin was revealed and I died

No, I didn't miss the scripture. Nor did I miss this one. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned."

God Bless.

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Isaiah 45:7

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