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Hey Jane, Do you believe that Russell and your other JW founders/leaders had a divine purpose made known to them? Do you believe that Russell and your other JW founders/leaders are spokesmen for God by not only conveying predictions but also Jehovah’s teachings, commands, and judgments...

Lol...A little research reveals a lot????????? You quoted your JW website. You didn't do any research. You adhere to the teachings of your JW church fathers but ignore historical church fathers. Why?

Do you consider the Apostolic Fathers (students of the Apostles) as being part of the "great falling away"? curious Mary

Lol...Hold on RedFan HOLD ON. The Apostles told others to get baptized. Jesus told the Apostles to baptize all. But you don't know if the Apostles were water baptized? Do you think the Apostles didn't practice what they preached? The Apostles didn't adhere to their own teachings or the...

Lol....Jesus was baptized in water. Your theory is that the Apostles baptized others (in water) but didn't get baptized (in water)? They told everyone else to get baptized (in water), but they didn't get baptized (in water)? They didn't follow the example of Jesus? Did Jesus say to the...

Hey Jane, Seems you don't care for the teachings of the ECF's. How about the Apostolic Fathers? The ones who were students of the Apostles. Do you care for their teachings?

:jest:

Lol...Us Christians will believe what Scripture says the purpose of baptism is and not believe you and your heretical men: And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’...... There is also an antitype which now saves...

Who decides that? YOU? Or the men you follow?

Hey Jane, The Church, my church, adheres to this part of Scripture also: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. You or your denomination rejects traditions taught by "word". Why? You can find the answers to all your...

Thank you for your opinions. Mary

:jest: Oh my gosh, it is soooo funny when you make fun of your fellow Christians. You are sooooo Christ like! :Thumbsup:

:jest: Is this a serious post? You know what is in my heart? How He has changed my life? According to YOU I have nothing to do with Christ because YOU believe I don't? Bizarre to say the least..... Scripture says, Baptism now saves you. You Protestants says it doesn't save you. But Catholics...

Interesting. I provided the links to Roberts-Donaldson and Lightfoot and those links showed Church capitalized. But your quotes for Roberts-Donaldson and Lightfoot were allegedly different even though the link you quoted from showed Church capitalized. Sooooo I'm a bit confused..... Also, I...

Redfan...I get the game you are playing. It makes me sad that you have even failed to acknowledge that YOUR translation of Greek is completely opposite of the link YOU provided and the 3 other links I provided. You want to go down another rabbit trail and brush off your opinion like it never...

You are right. It is a logical outgrowth of the interpretation. The Church is led by men (plural) but there is only one man who presides over The Church, and he sits in the chair of Peter. I can't speak for The hierarchical make up of The Church in Rome at that time is not well documented, but...

I just figured out what word game you are playing. You are referring to "along with the elders that preside over the Church." You think that since it says elders (plural) that preside of the Church it means that SEVERAL men preside over The Church. Not just one man, the Pope. You think that...

I don't know what word game you are playing but it makes no sense.

When have I ever portrayed elders/presbyters as leaders of the worldwide universal Church? Elders/presbyters (we call them Bishops/priests) are leaders of a region for the bishop and a church for a priest.

It matters because it shows that you are wrong.