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Maybe a little. There are a billion Trinitarians on the planet, and maybe a hundred of them might have glanced at this OP -- half of whom probably were turned off by its length. I won't assume the remaining fifty to be representative of the billion, of course. But yes, I was hoping for at...

Please don't presume that. I'm not denying it at all. I simply asked whether and how your observation, from Scripture, of the reality of Father, Son and Holy Spirit ties in to the ultimate question "How are the three persons one God?" It is likely that we differ on whether "persons" is the...

I hope, Farouk, that we are discussing the same thing here -- the deity of the Son and the Holy Spirit (rather than mere Scriptural references to their existence) and how to square that notion with Jewish monotheism while still retaining separate "personhood" for each. Trinitarians believe that...

It is interesting that you mention this type of stridency exhibited by many Trinitarians, Wrangler. I've seen it myself from time to time. Let me go on record right here as saying that I do NOT consider belief in the Trinity as a requirement for salvation. In fact, I think such a position is...

No offense taken. But I do not see Trinitarianism as sharing much with Sabellianism, given that the latter renders Father and Son as effectively identical. Sabellius did not accept the Son's distinctiveness and individuality -- related concepts that are an element of "personhood" -- and how...

At the suggestion of a poster on another thread that, like so many on this site, quickly began to fray as Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians debated (I’m being kind in using that word) the meaning of each side’s proffered biblical verses, I’ve decided to explain my position that Trinitarians...

Good suggestion. Gotta go to work now --and it's going to be a busy week -- but I'll get to it.

If "the Bible is clear" on the point, then I guess there is nothing more for you and I to talk about. I'm not of the view that Scripture is "clear" on the Trinity. (If it were "clear," everyone identifying as "Christian" on this site would be Trinitarians like us!). I think Trinitarianism...

OK, hide behind Ralston. I was interested in what YOU thought rather than what HE thought, but so be it, I'll rephrase: How can Ralston square his God-is-three-Persons-and-not-one-Person declaration with the challenge found in my post?

Ralston says two things in his phrase "not, however, a being distinct and separate in essence from the Father." First, not distinct from the Father. Second, sharing the same essence as the Father. Evans' definition of Person requires distinctiveness in order to qualify. But we are...

We understand Ralston exactly the same way. He says Holy Spirit is NOT distinct from the Father. My point is that X not being distinct from Y disqualifies X from being a different "person" than Y under Evans' definition (which requires individuality). But what about the rest of my post, the...

I've always thought that John 3:5's reference to "water" was actually a reference to baptism. Is that not correct?

I can try to answer that one, if BGTF will permit me. Actually, I think I will keep my powder dry for now. I want to see BGTF's answer first.

Adopting Evans' definition, my tentative conclusion is that God is a Person. God has "intelligence, mind, will, reason, individuality, self-consciousness, and self-determination." Just like you and I do. And it's the "individuality" feature that I want to focus on for the present. God is...

In understanding your definition of "Person" for purposes of understanding the Trinity, it doesn't help me much to know what it isn't. Separating all entities into "things" and "persons" doesn't provide a definition of either category. Nor do I think defining "Person" as a "non-thing" furthers...

Perhaps there is a third possibility - that both Catholics and non-Catholics are already "born again" (although I'm not sure Catholics would use that exact phrase to express the notion) but Catholics regularly partake of the bread and wine in order to follow the admonishment of John 6:53-56, as...

Define "Persons" here, please.

This may be too much to hope for, but can anyone answer a simple question for me: how do OSASers reconcile 1 John 3:6 (which seems to be a linchpin of their doctrine, at least as they interpret it) with 1 John 1:8 (which seems to be denied by them as applicable after their salvific moment of...

Yes, for seven years. B.A. 1976, J.D. 1979.

No, Cornell. "Go Big Red!"