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"The amazing things is that these people - whose goal is not to find support for a specific view on the topic, but rather the actual TRUTH - have come to different conclusions." Ya, I don't know, but at least the different views we have as Christians about the end times has kept us going back...

I guess along what Veteran is saying, I too believe there is a separation between the Christians who die before and after the times of tribulation or the last generation per say before we are caught up. That's what I was believing though I didn't really know what scripture to support it like...

It's hard to say exactly how the Holy Spirit works, and it's easy to put him in a box. It can be tricky because you have no idea who is going to be saved, but at the same time you're called to be a witness toward salvation, and what we do and say actually has an effect on whether someone does...

I empathize with what you're experiencing Preacher Zeeder. But there are so many different terms all encompassed by our one word Love. How do you pinpoint a problem when depending on how you define love, you are then talking about completely different concepts? Even romanticism has double...

Thanks for this post Foreigner. I don't think I would know about this otherwise.

Hey Arnie, thanks for your views. I'm not really seeing where we're disagreeing however. Are you saying dead in Christ has to do with Christians dying from some point in history (before now I suppose) all the way up to the time of the rapture? Or are you talking about an event that has...

Ya neophyte, I always wondered if Catholics had just a little off-construed view of what purgatory is. From what I understood those who lived by faith rested in "Abraham's Bosom" Which is what I pictured catholics to call purgatory. I don't know about their thoughts about what happens there...

So I guess what you're saying Axehead, is if there was a period of grace for demons to be saved or repent which is possible because of the way God works, it has already passed and whatever free will they had to choose is lost? I'm trying to relate that to our experience as Christians since its...

Hey Neophyte, I'm not really disagreeing with the terminology of the rapture, everything you're saying is true. But I believe the rapture encompasses more than just the catching up at the end. The 50% I get from the story of the foolish virgins. It's debated whether this passage is talking...

-- "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord...

I'm speaking mostly about that rapture event when I talk about martyrdom. I'm assuming about 50% of Christians will be dead by the time Christ calls people up, then whether they were martyred or not they still are part of the "Catching up" part of the rapture, and there with Christ from then...

With your last point Trekson I think I agree, though isn't it kinda hard to know at this point how many martyrs there will be? Hard to say when things start getting heated in the world. I'm surprised Son of Man hasn't latched on to my theory, I think it covers his basis for most of why he...

I guess I believe in an exception with the martyrs within End Time history, specifically the last generation before the tribulation. All of this having to do with the dead being raised in Christ and the living in Christ being raised after. I kinda believe how you do when a Christian dies he is...

Ya I guess I don't believe the rapture being secret either, but the reason I don't believe in the vanishing part is because I believe the rapture is the martyrdom of the church until the catching up into the sky to meet Christ (the most vanishingist part) though I believe even the catching up...

There's argument, coversation, and debate. Usually I just see two people arguing and it can sink an entire thread. An argument is when two people who don't agree, contend with one another personally about what they believe. A conversation is just two people talking or discussing about a...

I guess the one thing that was keeping me from the pre wrath mid trib theory is that I thought the coming of Jesus was at the very end of the tribulation. However I didn't take into account that the actual descent could take 3 1/2 years. Think, if he's coming from outer space in a visual...

Looked this up. "I would say one human year us equal to about twenty gerbil years. This is based on the fact that a healthy gerbil can live to be four human years old, and the average human lives between 75 and 85. It's simple math from there. Read more...

Ya, that's pretty much what I was thinking, though I haven't studied the abomination of desolation as much as I would like yet. What event do you think triggers the last 40ish year period before the tribulation? It seems there isn't a long enough season of preparation if Christians aren't...

I believe the rapture of the church is a mass martyrdom of Christians around the world until the middle of the tribulation. I believe then the dead in Christ (martyred sometime within a 40ish year period (1 generation) before the end occurs) will be caught up, and afterward the humiliated...

I guess I'm a mid tribulation raptur...ist. I think we haven't hit the within 1 generation (40 year mark) yet. However I do believe it will be within my lifetime. My mid tribulation view is different than most.