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Let’s simplify — is the day of the Lord,As described in the NT, an unmistakeable global cosmic, world ending event? Or is the day of the Lord similar to the OT — cosmic and world ending language used to describe a local and/or national judgement? Which one of these could you be more easily...

All frameworks have contradictions. All frameworks negotiate with the text. My framework is to remain consistent grammatically, contextually, and lexically, keeping in mind audience relevance. This results in my negotiating of concepts/nature (like the nature of son of man coming on the...

There is no language stating the dead will rise into the air, in the OT. There is simply similar styles of language in the OT - God descending from heaven in judgement on nations and enemies (2 Samuel 22, Isaiah 19,). On that day, gathering from the four corners of the earth (Isaiah 11)...

You believe what Jesus said according to your external framework, as evidenced by “so what”.

Sure, let’s argue it means a global cosmic event, according to your framework. Whether I believe it fulfilled in 70ad or not is completely irrelevant to my question about Paul’s logic in 2 Thessalonians 2. If we assume your framework is correct, the day of the Lord is a world ending global...

For example, There are multiple passages in the OT where Gods descends from heaven on the clouds in judgement of nations or enemies. I’ve already acknowledged the day of the Lord is described as the coming of Christ and gathering in vs 1. It says the end is not yet. Nowhere does it say the...

Paul frames the subject in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 as “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto him.” The issue is that the Thessalonians feared “the day of the Lord has come” (2:2). Paul’s response is not: “You would already know if Christ had literally appeared in the...

all is forgiven. Jesus said this generation will not pass away until ALL THESE THINGS occur. “All these things” appear to include the son of man coming on the clouds and the gathering of the elect. If Jesus said it, then I believe it.

What’s your question about this verse?

Which part are you referring to?

I’m not sure what you are talking about out. The adverb “as if” modifies the source of deception - letter, spirit, spoken word. It does not modify the day of the Lord. “Don’t be deceived by a spirit, spoken word, or letter “as if from us”, alleging that the day of the Lord has already...

Bummer, I was hoping for a counter as to why my response was wrong or missing something. All good if you wish to discontinue the discussion.

I agree it’s my opinion - based on the fact that Paul corrects a deception that it might already have occurred. If he had corrected the nature of it, then I would have a different opinion. My argument is not that Paul should have said something different simply because I would have preferred...

Your premise is wrong. 1.) contextually, Paul defines the day of the Lord in vs 1 - the coming of Christ and gathering. Therefore, Paul stated do not be shaken in mind that the day of the Lord ( WHICH HE DEFINED AS THE COMING OF CHRIST AND THE GATHERING) has already happened. 2.)...

Paul’s sequence proved a cosmic and global event hadn’t Happened yet? They could be deceived a global cosmic event already Happened because they were still suffering? I honestly have no idea what you are arguing here. It doesn’t make any logical sense.

Honestly, your argument doesn’t really make any sense nor address the main overall issue. Paul is NOT solely correcting the prophetic sequence, he’s providing a prophetic sequence to prove “something” has not yet occurred. But what that “something” is, is the very hinge on what the prophetic...

Edit: I should add that 2 Thessalonians is literally about correcting a deception that the day of the Lord already occurred, contrary to what you argued. If the day of the Lord was generally understood as a cosmic global event, then correcting the Thessalonians understanding of sequence and...

Paul never corrects the Thessalonians’ understanding of what the day of the Lord is. Therefore, any arguments about them misunderstanding the nature of the day are not grounded in Paul’s actual response, and are irrelevant. The whole premise is not to be deceived that it already happened, not...

My argument wasn’t that they could be fooled into the thinking that a cosmic global event already occurred. My argument is that it doesn’t make logical sense that someone could be fooled into believing they missed the day of the Lord, IF it was generally understood as a global cosmic event...

I’ll start with point 1. How could the Thessalonians be deceived that a global cosmic event had already come?