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The only place in the Bible where the phrase "third heaven" is used is Paul's use of it in 2 Corinthians 12:2. Paul probably used that expression to emphasise that he was referring to heaven where God and Jesus are, not the sky on the earth, nor the rest of the universe. It's confusing because...

There is nothing in those passages to suggest that Paul was referring to being taken to, or given visions of, the future. As Albert Barnes' Notes says: the Bible speaks of but three heavens, and among the Jews in the apostolic ages also the heavens were divided into three: (1) The aerial...

I know I said that I wouldn't post any more on the subject of Jesus' pre-existence before his birth as a human, but I thought I should just correct you on your comment that 1 Corinhians 8:6 is "speaking of the Church". The context of the passage (the whole chapter) is actually about Christians...

You're twisting the plain text to fit your interpretation, while still ignoring other verses which cannot be interpreted that way. I'll add some more verses in one last attempt to help you see the truth (I won't post any more on the subject after this). John 1:15 (ISV): (15) John {the...

Why do you ask that? That's not what JWs believe. From Wikipedia: Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is God's "only-begotten Son", and that his life began in heaven. He is described as God's first creation and the "exact representation of God", but is believed to be a separate entity and...

The Greek words commonly translated as "I am", more precisely should be translated as "I have been", i.e. Jesus was saying that he had been alive from before Abraham was born. Your idea that Jesus (and everything) only previously existed in God's thoughts, is not in harmony with other verses of...

Yep, I've already covered that in a previous post (post #415). Sorry, that was a typing error (which I've corrected). It should have been John 8:58.

Well some Bible translators disagree with you, e.g.: ISV: (17) He himself existed before anything else did, and he holds all things together. GNB: (17) Christ existed before all things, and in union with him all things have their proper place. ERV: (17) The Son was there before anything was...

Well I've quoted a lot of verses (at least 24) which suggest that Jesus did exist before he was born in Bethlehem. If that doesn't convince you then I don't know what will. Keep it in mind as you read the Bible, and delve deeper into the meanings of the Greek and Hebrew words, and one day it...

But I don't own a manor. Oh wait, perhaps you meant "manner"? :D It seems so. But if we keep studying God's word then we should learn more and more of the truth (light). 1 Corinthians 13:12 (WEB): (12) For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I...

No, I am not, nor have I ever been, a Jehovah's Witness. To summarise, at one point only God existed, and He was (and by definition always will be) immortal (He cannot possibly die). Then his only begotten Son (Jesus) came into being (birth or creation - the details are not specified), but he...

Indeed. I was not arguing that Jesus was God, I was pointing out that he existed in a non-human form before he was made human, therefore he existed before he was born as a human (that's what we have been discussing - right?). Yes, I added more Scripture quotes to support why I thought your...

Hebrews 1:2 doesn't say "all", it says "he made the worlds/universe/ages". 1 Corinthians 8:6 says "through whom are all things", not "some things". And "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands" is unambiguous, it definitely refers...

But don't ignore the verses that I quoted that said that Jesus came down from heaven when he became human, and that he was in heaven before he was made human, that he was with God before the world was made, existing in the "form of God". I don't think that is correct. Paul wrote that "all...

We do not exist before we are born, or rather, before we are conceived. However, Jesus was the exception. He was not conceived by a human father; he was conceived by God (Luke 1:31,35), and Jesus did exist before he was conceived as a human: Hebrews 10:5 (WEB): (5) Therefore when he comes...

Philippians 3:20-21 (WEB): (20) For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; (21) who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to...

Ditto. Your understanding that we were "spiritually dead" is radically different from what Paul wrote ("You were dead in your trespasses and sins", Ephesians 2:1 - TLV). Ditto. Did he? These verse don't seem very plain to me - 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 (KJV): (1) For we know that if our earthly...

Yes, of course I believe that verse. However, you need to delve slightly deeper and realise what the Hebrew text actually says - Genesis 2:17 (KJV): (17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die...

That's the kind of reasoning that meant thousands of Catholics believed in the Transubstantiation, where people were told to believe that when the priest prayed over the bread that a miracle happened and the bread turned into the human flesh of Jesus, and then another miracle happened and Jesus'...

You don't accept what Paul wrote about being dead - Ephesians 2:5 (ISV): (5) even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved), Taking Paul literally, he said we were dead. You've added a strange interpretation of what dead...