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I don't know if I refused a gift, but I don't understand the idea that "because it's a gift, it can't be lost" lol How are gifts in a category of "unlosable"? If you have a child, and you give him a gift, can he not lose it? I don't understand that logic. Adam received everything as a gift, but...

Actually, now that I've taken a second look at the context, I don't think it is possible to believe that everyone will die. 1 Thessalonians 4 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the...

I mean to say, if I were considering the belief for myself, I'd probably have to find a way to reconcile it with that verse, so, have you considered it? Could it dissuade your belief in it?

1. Paul says "those of us who are alive and remain will be transformed", so, what would you do with that verse? 2. LOL The thread is about people who were saved but who then still fell under God's wrath and did not inherit eternal life.

If the following is the answer for how they will be outside the city (not committing the dirty deeds, but suffering on account of them), I wouldn't want to be there with them. Isaiah 66 24“Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their...

Just a technicality, I guess, but what about the generation that sees Christ's return? They won't die, they will be transformed. An aside, anyway, I guess. Not directly related to verses in the Bible proving salvation can be lost.

Death occurred, for Adam, because of his sin. Those born in Adam have the "body of sin", and we spiritually die because of being forced into sin by that body. Christ resurrects us from the spiritual death which the body of sin caused. Absence of faith in Christ doesn't cause death, presence of...

Oops, you forgot the other part of that. Here it is. Philippians 2 12Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act...

I would have to differ. I subscribe to the "already but not yet" principle--we're seated with Christ in heavenly places right now, spiritually, but, in the future, those who persist in faith in their lives, in their walks, will physically enjoy enthronement.

I just want to talk about the verses that teach salvation can be lost. LOL

You said all people are saved because wrath was poured out on unbelievers in AD70... but, again, this would not include the unbelievers upon whom the wrath was poured, right, so "all men" are not "saved" from wrath? Also, you're turning the unbelievers into Christs--into sacrifices for...

But don't you say all will be saved?

Just a small point: how are people "saved" from wrath by "wrath" being poured out on them (if they are the unbelievers who are subjects of the wrath)? That is not logical. Also, how are some unbelievers saved from wrath by some other unbelievers having wrath poured out of them? A sacrifice has...

Big can of worms. Don't need to get in to it bc it's not the topic of the thread.

I wasn't referring to believers--that's a different story--but to all mankind, since L.A.M.B. seemed to be differing with you about your belief that all men would be "saved" (of course this makes no sense, since "salvation" would have to include being saved from His wrath, but it is clear that...

Well, I don't want to get into a heated interaction, to be honest, especially since I don't even know, and can't be dogmatic.

I was saying God has a will, and when we sin, we are not choosing God's will. For example, God had a will for Jesus. When Jesus had a different will, He had to put it aside to choose God's will. Therefore, it does not follow from "God wills that all be saved" that "all will be saved".

The will of God is one thing, and every time people sin, they are not choosing God's will--by definition, those who sin do not have God's will in their lives.

We differ: reading Romans 7, I think it is possible that people are not born spiritually dead, but they are born with the sinful flesh, so, because of the inevitable slavery to sin to which men become subjected by dint of the presence of that sinful flesh, men spiritually die. It's interesting...

It says "that I would lose none that You gave Me", so this does not refer to all men. In fact, the first fulfillment comes in the Garden when he gets his disciples dismissed. John 18 8“I told you that I am He,” Jesus replied. “So if you are looking for Me, let these men go.” 9This was to...