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Wait, isn't "love your neighbor as yourself" a commandment from "the letter of that OLD Law" that you're saying we're not supposed to follow? Yeah it's Leviticus 19:18.

Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 subsume "do not covet" under "works of Law", so, no, "works of Law" isn't "religious rituals".

@theefaith ?

Paul had Timothy circumcised. Did he fall from grace?

That describes the life of a Jew in the flesh Romans 7:5 and "under Law" so he's being mastered by sin Romans 6:14 not a Christian who is "not in the flesh but in the Spirit" Romans 8:9. It's not Paul's Christian life because "no covetous man has any inheritance in God's Kingdom", but this guy...

1. It's not one or the other it's both : the forgiveness only comes after the process of atonement is executed (eg, Leviticus 4:26). Part of these substitutionary sacrifices involves at times transferring sins from people to sacrifices Leviticus 16:21. The forgiveness doesn't come until all that...

Also for @Hidden In Him Why do you say "Jesus and His Apostles"? Jesus told the Jew to keep Sabbath if he wanted to enter the Kingdom of God--He spoke at a time the Law stood. Also, what we're talking about is justification--right standing with God--and that is by "righteousness of faith"...

It's not up to me to help you understand why or how only to show that Scripture indicates "works of Law" includes "do not covet".

"Works of the Law" apparently includes "do not covet" Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7.

Jesus is firstborn among many brethren, firstborn from among the dead, "You are My Son, today I have begotten You." How could people be born again yet not have their sins removed? To be born again means you are In Christ not In Adam and you have been rescued from the bondage to sin. 1) How could...

LOL! I know, but I thought the implication was unavoidable if I wanted to try to push you to continue the convo.

All right, will wait for discussion on Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7 to resume.

@Hidden In Him Sorry, that talk turned out to be a dud in my opinion. I went and looked at another presentation of his and it was much worse--extremely tedious and I couldn't stop falling asleep.

@Hidden In Him Perfect timing for this treat to be published!

My point was that they did not partake of the benefits of the New Covenant until it was made available--and it wasn't available at that time.

All men of faith--starting at least with Abel Hebrews 11:4, then all the way through history--were "just" but were not "perfect" because they DID NOT partake of the benefits made available through the New Covenant until Christ inaugurated it.

Did I say anything contrary to that?

I was talking about "initial justification". I already affirm a coming judgment of works.

Even the 12 Apostles didn't understand or believe in a dying and resurrecting Christ, which is the Gospel, so none of them believed what God had kept secret Romans 16 says together with Galatians 3 (until the faith came). Faith in Jesus at that time did not place people "in Christ". "Christ" had...

New Covenant Justification is a perfect justification, pre-New Covenant justification was an imperfect justification (blood of animals could not remove sins).