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  1. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    I'm going to retire for the night...
  2. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    For the righteous, his waters shall be sure; he is not facing the flames of torment. But I think that we have established the concept of conscious torment in hell, even if only for one aion?
  3. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    Mat 7:21, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy...
  4. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    I believe that Proverbs is an exception to the rule of context is king; in that each verse stands alone as a singular Proverb in Solomon's table. (I do also believe that this is true of scripture across the board, that every verse is never nullified by its context but that every verse in the...
  5. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    Pro 22:1, A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold. Pro 22:2, The rich and poor meet together: the LORD is the maker of them all. Pro 22:3, A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished...
  6. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    And I would say that the lake of fire is certainly to be found outside of the New Jerusalem...it is certainly not going to be found within the walls thereof... And yes, "lake of fire", "outer darkness", "furnace of fire" all speak parabolically of the suffering that will be experienced in...
  7. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    Again, I would bring up Isaiah 33:14: Isa 33:14, The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? If your pov is correct, then there is no reason for the hypocrite to...
  8. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    In Romans 6:23, death has been defined as eternal separation from God in some of the best Christian tracts. But I believe that Matthew 25:46 is to be interpreted, not by Romans 6:23; but by Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50.
  9. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    Obviously, the dead man who is in the grave will either feel pain or else the clods of the valley will feel sweet to him.
  10. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    It is clearly in God's word...so you are walking on dangerous ground...implying that the Holy Spirit inspired a satanic doctrine when Jesus spoke about hell. As a matter of fact, Mark 3:29 would say to you that you are in danger of eternal damnation.
  11. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    I believe that this verse speaks of the fate of the devil, in its context. However, Revelation 20:10 would seem to indicate a different fate for the devil, if you are interpreting the first verse correctly.
  12. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    Pro 22:12, The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor. This verse would indicate to me that those doctrines that did not survive the early inquisitions were overthrown by the Lord God.
  13. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    It should be clear that if the wicked dead are burned up for one aion before they perish completely, that during this period their experience will promulgate "wailing and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50). They will also be located in "a furnace of fire".
  14. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    What you are saying is contrary to the scriptures that I have given (Job 14:19-22, Job 21:33). What do you say? They're not inspired? 1Jo 2:25, And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. So this doesn't mean for ever...it can only be referring to life that will...
  15. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    I believe that Romans 16 does indeed identify Rufus as a saint. :eek: Since you're bringing up Isaiah, my memory has been jogged to think of this scripture (which speaks of the reaction, in v.14, of those who are given the proper understanding of faithful doctrine concerning these things)...
  16. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    A case can be made that dead bodies are capable of feeling the environment around them. Job 14:19, The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man. Job 14:20, Thou prevailest for ever against him, and he...
  17. J

    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

    Eph 2:3, Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.