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I don't give what @CoreIssue is saying a lot of weight as it appears to me to be pure conjecture.

Consider that Acts 2:38-39 is a conditional promise. And that if you really compare this scripture with Rom 8:30, and emphasize the word "call" "called" you cannot help but come to a specific conclusion.

We are saved by the grace of God. Faith in scripture is a catalyst for entering into grace. That is from the eternal perspective. From the perspective of time, God loved us while we were still sinners, i.e. outside of Christ.

You're grasping at straws here.

I put that in quotes. And also, neither one happens apart from faith in Jesus.

I believe that a case can be made for it in scripture. A case can also be made that a man can be saved apart from Jesus only baptism. So I set it forth as a point of contact for faith so that one might have absolute assurance of salvation.

Your point?

"sinners" in Romans 5:8 is referring to us before we were saved from sin (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14).

Faith is the catalyst for "both of them". Going by what the Spirit tells me. 1Jo 2:20, But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 1Jo 2:21, I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

I used it as proof that God loves the sinner. If you see it as contradicting your interpretation of those other verses, then that is your intellectual problem to deal with.

I'm currently going to a church that does not baptize in the name of Jesus.

Being born again, regenerated, and saved are synonymous in spiritual language, whether it is Greek or English. Exactly! They have access to salvation (grace) by faith. Now you're getting the order! They are not saved first.

I am not a modalist; but you would label me as that because you disagree with my understanding. The only way that you will ever understand the Trinity is if you get baptized in Jesus' Name. And two of the men were angels, if you look at Genesis 18:33 and Genesis 19:1.

What scripture did I use to pit against your scripture? If I already quoted it, then are you not pitting your scripture against my scripture?

The 1st person of the Trinity incarnated and in doing so became the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Isaiah 9:6. But if we argue this here, it will derail the thread. There are other threads that speak adequately on this subject, so if you want to argue the issue, go to them or else create a new thread.

They are synonyms even in the Greek It is biblical. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. In your scenario, we cannot have access to grace until we have been saved for some period of time. It takes time for fruit to grow, you know.

This brings us back to the key analogy. Truly, for Jesus to give me the key to the door of my mansion is grace. But it is nothing compared to the grace that I will receive when I enter my mansion using the key to open the door. If I never find my mansion and take possession of it, all I will...

I feel the same way about you...:(:(:(

First of all, how am I pitting scripture against scripture? Secondly, Romans 5:8 is clear that God loved us while we were still in an unregenerated state, irregardless of whether we are saved now.

Regeneration and being born again and being saved are synonymous. We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Faith comes first, then grace, then the Holy Spirit. The subsequent fruit of faith is actually more like faithfulness; which is adhering to the initial faith that comes...