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I thought this thread was going to be on the topic of the Gospel being in the Torah; we are doing a really good job of not keeping on topic. I only mention it because threads seem to tend to devolve into the conversation we're having; then, every thread becomes the same conversation...

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me, because this is basically what I said, yet you seem to want to disagree.

Do you think it is helpful, as long as we're being careful, and nuanced, to consider that Paul also, although he says, "Purge out the old leaven, for you are unleavened" (affirming a "positional", "in Christ", reality), he also warns them, in answer to their unrighteous behavior, sin, "do not be...

We've done an admirable job of veering from the topic of the thread. lol

Yes, we will be transformed by the renewing of our minds--they overcame by the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death (acknowledging and confessing the truth makes us leave the old life behind).

Right, that's what people mean when they say "positional" (not that I use the word, I just use it to relate to those who use it, or who I think use it)--they are in Christ, that is their "position".

Transformed my life, saved from 7 straight years of nightly unspeakably terrifying satanic visitations, so I'm sticking with it, irrespective ANY other opinion.

Well, by "positional righteousness", I mean "what God has made to be true of me since I am [positionally] in Christ".

I have experienced grace, the Son of God destroying the works of the devil, in my life through faith in and boasting in the Cross, so I have to disagree if you disagree--but I think what you disagree with is an empty powerless profession that doesn't yield results but leaves a person buddy-buddy...

Yeah, the self effort makes things even worse (like being under Law), but when you trust God, and tear down the impending fears that you might do something wrong, fighting the good fight of faith, bringing every thought captive to obey Christ, based on what Christ has made you to be already...

@shepherdsword So, also, Paul has (at least) two types of commands : 1. "Account yourself dead to sin" : accounting / belief based on what Christ has done, and 2. "Nothing counts but keeping God's commands", "serve one another" : walk in love toward God and man. This is also what 1 John 3:23...

The Gospel of John?

Extremely mystical and unfathomable.

I'm just saying that John's writing has unfathomable depths, continuously enfolding, and building on itself, and reiterating, adding to itself, on unfathomable levels, by God's grace and for His glory, but Hebrews doesn't have that quality IMO.

The Torah had various types of commands, and some of them were to REMEMBER WHAT GOD DID--so, also, I think "remembering what God did" is what Paul says "God forbid that I would boast in anything but the Cross whereby I was crucified to the world and the world to me", and how he emphasizes...

@Episkopos It is the HEART that is conquered by sin, the desires, so it makes sense that only the heart needs salvation from sin in order for the entire life to be transformed. When you have faith, and the heart gains the victory over the darkness, then you are freed from those chains to walk...

Right, well, your view is absent in the historical record--I'm sure people would've been happy to have attributed it to John--and the writing style doesn't resemble that of John whatsoever. Anyway.

I'm sorry, but there are programs out there to help religious Jews stop watching porn, because IT IS A PROBLEM FOR THEM. I agree with your perspective on holiness--I'm just saying I'm glad to be free, as the thought never even crosses my mind to even watch the filth, and that was by faith alone...

Yeah, I saw that--but the difference, I think, is that some people think it doesn't matter if believing in a positional blessing bears fruit or not. I think it does matter. If you believe, you ought to overcome. The intent is that there be a transformation.

I definitely won't be worshipping the State of Israel like you do.