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Well you ought to first find out who Lucifer is. Cause he isn't Satan.

If you say so. But nonetheless it id truth.

You edited your entire post i responded to. Yep, i should've quoted you but didn't. To reply to your edited post: are you suggesting i am part of a Luciferian secret society? Sure sounds like it.

Phoneman The warning is there to the predestinated to keep them away from such things. Its also there to condemn others. Simple as that. The line of reasoning you are using is not new: that there is no reason to behave/believe if you are predestinated. That's an untrue statement. We are...

None of those verses mention nor support freewill. Read my response to phoneman for the proper explanation. I don't care about mans logic, my stance is biblical and I'm not a robot.... I am a sheep.

Phoneman You are still using inferental theology. Concerning mat 25:41, i don't have to infer anytging because they (those who Jesus was speaking about) will be throne into the everlasting fire. So yes, it was meant for them too because they are going there. "Foundation of the World" is not a...

You are using Inferrential Theology, Phoneman... and it doesn't work. I know very well what Mat 25:41 says and what it doesn't say... First off, it doesn't say "lake of fire", but that's a small point. It does say everlasting fire is prepared for the devil and his angels. But you are inferring...

No it doesn't and no i haven't. But what is funny is that you don't have one verse that mentions freewill in the proper concept. Yet i do have verses that say we are predestinated. Yo claim man's logic and I have Bible.

Aside from your Catholic slant, i agree.

Yes he does! And we can't even say,"well you are God! I wouldn't have these problems if I were you!" because God himself became a man of flesh and blood and had like experiences as we do! One of the most comforting and yet "disappointing" verses in the bible is Romans 8:28 which states all...

Good point!

Interesting post, River! Gotta think on that. But what does concern me is whether or not we as a soceity are getting closer to God or farther. I think the latter. This might be against data that may show more "converts" or growing memberships at Churches... I still believe we are getting...

Ok. Fair enough if that was your point. I hope you see what i was getting at, though. I'd like to address a few points you brought up. I am paraphrasing, but you asked if I knew more about God's revelation than Paul did. Well, you and I both have more information than he did. So in a...

Tom55, Its fine that you pulled a definition off the net, but you should instead look at the Strongs greek definition. Its a lot simpler. An even better plan is to look how its used in the Bible. Paul said we are predestined (and it befuddles me why I'm even debating it since its clearly in...

Oh really? Which verse is that? And did that verse say only the devil and his angels would be there or was someone thrown into this "lake of fire" with them? Your argument isn't going to hold up. The verse you are thinking of is Mat 25:41. It doesn't say the lake of fire was prepared for...

I think i know what you are doing... Come on, Wormwood! You think thats really a fair comment? You are comparing a chapter which obviously uses symbolism (insomuch as the book itself admits its symbolic by explaning thesymbolism) to one verse which is merely a salutation. The book of James...

There is so much I disagree with in your post that I'm not sure how to start. Well, first your definition of pedestination (which you really haven't given, but i see pieces of your meaning) is strange. You seem to think it means we don't have the ability to act on our own. Not so. When i...

Its not a new problem. Israel no longer wanted to follow prophets like Samuel. They wanted a king so they could be like other nations. As different as we are my friend, i admire you for trying. And for your desire to a leader who is upright.

Only in one verse, Phoneman. You are speaking of Romans 8. If you look carefully the word "foreknew" comes before the word "Predestinate", but only in sentence structure. The verse doesn't give an order (one came before the other). It says who he foreknew he ALSO called. WIth the word...

No Tom.... I was responding to your post, and it was nothing about what early CHristians did. Go back and look at the history. I am not surprised you do not understand. But no, we are not robots. We are sheep. SHeep hear his voice and follow.