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I think you get off on argument and decoy. By your own admission, the bible is not logical or reasonable (post #22) By that measure, I think the chickens have a better chance of understanding. :)

I'm sure glad you are not the judge!

hear the question Jack. I'm not asking you to tell me what Patrick believes, I'm asking what you believe.

no....I endeavour to understand its words while being consistent with its intent.

allow me to ask this, what do you think Universalism means. Be careful, you might use reason and logic which is not inline with the bible!

weaponising scripture to flatter an ego is not my thing Jack. You call it a challenge but you also are opposed to reason and logic so how do you figure that to work?

ohh, you mean you have a tender heart that goes out to the erring children of men?

again, like I implied, you cannot understand the difference

like I said, you love that idea and would be very disappointed if it wasn't the case.

explain to me then how one who loves (has affection towards his creatures) can drown and burn his children? ....and I wonder what this text means, 'come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet I will make them white as snow' Isaiah 1:18

It is your version of 'everlasting fire' that is opposed Jack, not that of Jesus. Can you understand there is a difference?

sooooo, one is required to dismiss all logic and reason in favour of how one understands the bible? ....so I would ask, who's understanding? ...there are many of them.

isn't that how Satan presents himself as an angel of light?

You assume without question your understanding of the text is flawless but you cannot reconcile how loving God can do such a thing.

If killing and torture are the tools of the enemy to get conformity or to assert authority, do we really believe God would go into the enemy's tool box because he doesn't have sufficient in his own?

I can see you enjoy that Jack!

is it worse than having a God who fries people forever?

an easy solution is just admitting you insulted instead of side-stepping

@Keraz, further....so, are problems solved with violence? Doesn't violence begat more violence? I'm sure God is onto that. If God were to 'solve' problems with force (violence) the whole watching Universe would not be open and free, definitely not spontaneous and joyful; there would always be...

I'm reading the text you've quoted and looking at the highlighted sections but still am wondering what your angle is. Does the quoted text require questioning?.....what is it specifically you are asking?.......Ohhh, and what is the 'heresy' doctrine ?