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Pointing out that Irenaeus should be tested against the surviving evidence is not the same thing as claiming that his testimony about his opponents “cannot be trusted.” That conclusion goes much further than the evidence presented here. And even if Irenaeus got some historical details wrong...

These verses do not shed light on Wrangler’s false doctrine. They expose the danger of proof-texting. Psalm 12:6 is not even about God testing people. It says, “The words of the LORD are pure words.” The silver illustration describes the purity of God’s words. Using that to support progressive...

That is false teaching, and the problem is your eisegesis. You keep quietly changing “kindness” into “forgiveness” and then building your doctrine on the substitution. Scripture never gives you permission to do that. Yes, God's goodness leads a sinner to repentance. But Romans 2:5 says the man...

Wrangler, you have now demonstrated exactly what I have been saying. This is eisegesis, plain and simple. You are reading your progressive-testing theory into Scripture instead of drawing doctrine out of Scripture. Your argument has deteriorated into “this is how life works” and “progression is...

You are forcing your doctrine into the parables instead of letting Jesus explain them. The prodigal was not restored while he was still in rebellion. He “came to himself,” confessed, “I have sinned,” and returned to his father (Luke 15:17-20). Then the father received him. Jesus said, “this my...

This is where your argument falls apart. You said it “doesn’t have to be a one and done reaction.” But that is not exegesis. That is speculation. You are no longer showing what Jesus said. You are filling in what you need the passage to say. Matthew 25 is plain. “After a long time the lord of...

Wrangler, saying “the passage totally describes” a progressive testing system does not make it so. Show me the verse. You cannot, because Matthew 25 never describes the system you keep inserting into it. The sequence is plainly stated: “After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and...

No, the problem is not that I “don’t see it.” The problem is that you are claiming the text says something it simply does not say. Accusing someone of blindness does not turn your interpretation into Scripture.

Matthew 25:21 does not establish the progressive testing system you are claiming. It says, “thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things.” That is faithfulness followed by greater responsibility. It does not say the servant passed one test, advanced to...

No, that is not semantics. You are taking “faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things” and turning it into a progressive testing system that the passage never describes. You said, “There is no reason to suppose this cannot be repeated, more and more and more.” That is...

I understand your point better now, but I still think several of these passages are being pushed beyond what they actually say. Matthew 6:33 tells us to “seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness.” In context Jesus is telling His disciples not to be consumed with food, clothing...

That still does not answer the question I asked you. John 3:16 says God loved the world and gave His Son. It does not say God had already forgiven every unbelieving sinner in the world. You are putting forgiveness into the verse where the verse does not say it. In fact, the same passage says...

You are proving that the disciples did not understand Christ’s death and resurrection before it happened. You are not proving that Peter later preached a different gospel from Paul. Matthew 16:21-22 says Peter resisted what Jesus told him. Luke 18:34 goes even further and says, “they understood...

That argument still does not work. Galatians 2:2 says Paul communicated the gospel he preached among the Gentiles. It does not say the apostles had never heard it, did not know it, or were preaching a different way of salvation. You are reading all of that into the verse. Paul tells us exactly...

I agree with you on the need for ongoing growth and putting off the old man, but I still think some of these verses are being made to say more than they actually say. Acts 14:22 says we must “through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.” That does not describe entering deeper...

Yes, they are talking about two separate things. Jesus said, "thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things" (Matthew 25:21). That passage is talking about increased responsibility due to faithfulness. It doesn't say, "I gave you a little test and you passed...

No. Insulting my intelligence does not make your doctrine biblical. Show the Scripture that teaches your system. That is the issue you keep avoiding. You quote, “For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required” (Luke 12:48 KJV). Read the context. Jesus is speaking about...

That is simply false, and you are forcing a doctrine onto passages that do not say what you claim. Galatians 2:2 does NOT say Paul “had to teach John the Gospel.” Paul says, “I communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles.” Then just a few verses later Paul says James...

The fork illustration sounds clever, but it still does not answer the question I asked you. Where does Scripture say that God has already forgiven every unbelieving, unrepentant sinner? You now say, “Forgiveness is God’s attitude towards his creatures.” Where does the Bible say that? That is...

If by “progressive structure” you simply mean that greater responsibility can be entrusted to someone who has proven faithful with lesser responsibility, then yes, I agree with that. Scripture certainly teaches that principle. “He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in...